Adire Shiva MK IV (I think)

[mightypecan 0]

I have a Ford Ranger Super cab and over the past 5 or 6 years I've owned two Shivas. I have always powered them with the same amp I used for SPL...MTX Thunder 6500D in parallel for a two ohm load (rated on the 'paper' at 402 w/rms at 4ohms and 611 w/rms at 2 ohm).The first one I had in a downfiring box in the center of the extended cab (over the hump). The most current one I had in a really small box (built to take up less room). I never had problems with the downfiring one, even though my little cousin once pushed the dust cap almost completely in...and then I had air leaks so I permanently sealed it in the box...hey, it was already ugly. The one I have now though, tends to cut on and off. The amp is doing fine, and gets 14.4volts pretty continuously because of the cap. The sub didn't used to do this often, but recently I built a bigger box...wedge style to put behind the passenger seat, and it does it a lot...sometimes totally going away, then sometimes really boomy. According to http://audiogearreviews.com/tech/tools/box...lator-wedge.asp, my new enclosure comes out to roughly 1.04 cubic feet, taking into consideration the subwoofer displacement. I can say that once I did unknowingly 'stretch' the connections to the voice coils when I was trying to get the slack out of the speaker wires (I say stretch because one of the coils seems more floppy than the others). As you know, these Shivas don't have push terminals...so I have all the wires soldered on. I can't see where I damaged anything though...nothing is burned/blown. As I said, when it isn't really boomy or just not working, it still sounds great. That's why I know something isn't making a good connection. I don't believe I completely caused this to happen this time though, as it did do it occasionally in the smaller box...which I had in there for at least a year and half...probably closer to two. Anybody have any clue how to solve this problem or heard of anything similar? I have no clue how to repair subs...and this is well out of warranty. I THINK it's the MK IV, but the box is in the attic and I don't feel like going up there right now. (the girl from the Grudge might be in there.)

If there is just a better sub for my application, then I'm all ears. But I like this sub a lot...and it seems the new ones want a bit more airspace than I have. But boy do they have some excursion...

I appreciate any and all help!

Edited February 12, 2008 by mightypecan

[johnecon2001 82]

Are you positive its not the amp? Just because it has 14.4v at the leads because "you have a Cap" doesn't mean the amp isn't cutting in and out.

Swap a new amp in if you can and see what happens.

You should also retrace all of your connections and make sure everything is solid and connected to the right places.

And finally, if you do find out the sub is bad.. I might be able to help with a replacement

[mightypecan 0]

That's the problem...I have no other amp to try, at least not another mono amp. The only other amp I have is the 4 channel that runs the components. I can say I have taken the MTX amp out and opened it up. I couldn't see or smell anything unusual. But I don't know if a problem would always be obvious. Regarding how the sub plays...while having it out of the box I can get it to play fine, then once I get it back in the box it will either work well, or won't (I guess those are the only options). I can put some pressure on the wires that go to the voice coils (what I mistakingly referred to as the voice coils in my first post, should have been more clear), the ones on the terminals, and it usually solves the problem. This is why I think it is the subwoofer and not the amp. Would pictures of the woofer help? For someone whose seen more of the woofers you might notice something.

[johnecon2001 82]

Yeah go ahead and post a picture or two. I have one Shiva here and two DPL's, so I can compare.

It sounds like a burned or frayed tinsel lead just under the spider if you can't see anything wrong above it.

Having the sub free-airing it won't excurt as much as in the box. Its probably shorting the tinsel on and off when its in the box.

[Robert_J 0]

Use a DMM and check the VC resistance as you slowly push the cone down. If there is a break in the tinsel, you may see the resistance drop to zero (or change to infinite depending on your DMM) if the circuit is broken.

If you do need a replacement and John doesn't have a good deal, the Dayton 12" DVC from Parts Express is the closest thing to a Shiva still available. In fact, it performs better than the Shiva in smaller boxes. Both the old Shiva and the Dayton DVC are built by Eminence.

-Robert

[mightypecan 0]

I am not sure exactly what to do with the DMM. I tried to get a reading while moving the cone, but the numbers fluctuate so much due to shaking. I'm thinking it would be easier with push terminals...or tape them on? The default reading on the DMM was 1. in the 20M OHM setting. Both sets of terminals gave the same reading when I didn't press the cone down. The reading was just 0.00...and sometimes a '-' (negative) would blink off and on. Those Daytons, same as this one?

BTW, does anyone have the spec sheet of the Shiva MK IV?

Edited February 13, 2008 by mightypecan

[mightypecan 0]

I've come to the conclusion that maybe the sub is messed up. Is the $125 shipped (estimate) Dayton Audio 12" DVC from Acoustic-Visions the best deal for this sub? As mentioned before by Robert they look like they might do better in a small box. I wish I could find the spec sheet for the Shiva to compare everything, but since the Adire site is no longer around it's a bit difficult to find. Also, would my amp, an MTX Thunder 6500D be okay with a Dayton? At 4 ohms I'd be giving the sub around 400 watts rms. In a lot of ways I wish I could find a good sub that would allow me to run this amp at 2ohm...it did it well with the two 10's I had a while back. But the problem is finding a sub that likes small spaces....1 cubic foot. I definitely want at least a 12".

[johnecon2001 82]

If you read a 0-1.0 ohm on the coil.. the sub is definitely damaged.

I could sell you one of my DPL's for around the same price as the Dayton. It's slightly different than the Shiva due to a lower Fs

http://www.caraudioforum.com/vbb3/showpost...amp;postcount=7 This is Dan Wiggins talking about it.

[mightypecan 0]

I appreciate the offer John, but I really don't know much about the DLPs. It seems their Xmax isn't as great as the Dayton's, but truthfully I don't really know much about either. It's just tough finding info on Adire stuff nowadays. Is there any place to get the spec sheets of their stuff..in PDFs or something?

Do you know of a good sub that can take 600 watts/rms that likes small spaces? Preferably a 12". Of course for this to be possible I'd need something I could take to 2ohm.

Edited February 14, 2008 by mightypecan

[johnecon2001 82]

The Mach 5 Audio MAW-12 (comes in DVC4) (although it only really needs at the most 400w) would fit the bill.

The Sundown Audio SD-1v2 12" (unfortunately 8 ohms) (same lower wattage except around 300w).

Also the Soundsplinter RL-i10 (10's are nice) takes 200-500w and comes in DVC4 as well.

Lastly the Ascendant Audio ASSASSIN 12". 250w DVC4.

All great subs, that sound excellent. And all are priced reasonably.

Although, I still can't compare them to a Shiva. I have one.. but there's no chance you're getting your hands on that lol.

[mightypecan 0]

Those all look like nice subs...while looking at them on SSA I also found this CV. I've seen it all over the net while looking the past few days. Is it any good?

Cerwin Vega VMAX 12.4

and how does it compare to a Dayton 12" DVC?

I don't blame you for holding on to the Shiva...amazing subs.

Edited February 14, 2008 by mightypecan

[johnecon2001 82]

I don't have any experience (direct or indirect) with the Cerwin Vega. I believe Mark/Aaron just needed a decently good beginner sub that was under $100 for noobs in the store.

Did you have a budget that you needed to stay under?

[mightypecan 0]

Not necessarily, but at the moment I'd prefer to stay under $125. I guess it depends on what I find. Do you know anyone with a Dayton 12"?

The Cerwin-Vega stood out b/c of the advertised power handling (which may or may not be true) and ability to go to 2ohm. Truthfully I don't know how much of a difference it will be sending 600 watts to a sub in the same size enclosure as 400 watts to a different sub (CV advertises as having good sound quality, but I have my doubts...). I can get each subwoofer for about the same price.

Take a look at these specs and see which you think would do best in a 1 cubic ft sealed box. The box is a wedge, and the angled part is against the passenger seat in a Ford Ranger supercab. The non-angled side is where the sub is mounted and it is firing towards the rear of the truck. There is approximately 6 inches between the sub and the rear of the truck.

Dayton 12" DVC Diameter: 12 1/4"

Cutout: 11"

Front Mount Height: 3/4"

Total Depth: 6 3/8"

Displacement: 3 liters

Re 2.69 ohms

Le 1.81 mH

Qms 12.53

Mms 197.6 grams

Qes 38

Cms 0.334 mm/N

Qts 369

Fs 21.73 Hz

Sd 506.7 cm^2

Vas 9.89 ft^3

BL 14.2

Xmax 15.1 mm one way

EBP 55.3

SPL 87.4 dB @ 1W/1m

VC Dia. 2"

Power Rating 350 watts per voice coil Power Rating 600 watts total to the driver.

I couldn't get it on here this easily, but this is the link to the specs of the Cerwin-Vega.

I really appreciate the help.

Edited February 14, 2008 by mightypecan

[johnecon2001 82]

The T/s specs lead me to believe the Dayton would do better in a sealed box than the Vega. It looks like the CV is more inclined to be in a ported box.

Also, I don't know if you saw this on Acoustic-Visions, I completely forgot about it too. Exodus Audio made their own version of the Shiva. Its now called the Shiva-X. Twice the power handling and mroe excursion.

http://www.acoustic-visions.com/~acoustic/...drivers/shivax/

That would probably fit your bill better.

[mightypecan 0]

I saw that when I was looking around...sounds quite nice. On the apps sheet however, it mentions that it does well in 1.5-2 cubic foot boxes. The Dayton says it will do well in 1-1.5...more in my area.

[johnecon2001 82]

You could always add polyfill in a sealed application to make up for what you lack in cubic feed. 20-40oz would do quite a bit for you.

[Robert_J 0]

I've had experience with both the Dayton DVC12 (I built a small, sealed home theater sub for a friend) and with the Cerwin Vega V-Max subs. The V-Max, at least the older models with the red surround, sound great. They are a great bargain. I used a pair of 15's in my home theater and a pair of 10's in a friend's car. But they definitely want to be in a ported box.

Don't get hung up on getting the absolute last watt from your amp. The sub you pick and the box will have more impact than the difference between 400w and 600w. Model each sub with the amp's power in either WinISD or Unibox. That will give you a very good indication of how loud each gets. You will get a boost due to cabin gain but it will be the same no matter what sub you pick. So the loudest modeled sub should be the loudest in your car if that's what you are going for.

-Robert

Edited February 14, 2008 by Robert_J

[mightypecan 0]

Thanks Robert. I tried Unibox and it seems that the Cerwin-Vega will be the overall loudest. I don't listen to music as loud as I once did...which is still probably weak compared to most true competitors (two MTX Thunder 8000 10s in a vented box...similar to the Obcon Gorilla setup...141.5 db), but it would still be nice to have as much 'bump' as possible for what little space I want to take up. I have the remote bass control for my amp, so it's always been convenient to adjust the volume of the subwoofer to better suit various forms of music. I've never owned Cerwin-Vega before, so I personally don't know much about them. I remember someone who had an old Stroker back in the day, but not many folks with the subs in general. I just want something that will get loud when I want it to, but also sound pretty good...I guess sort of an LSQ situation.

Truthfully, I tried both of those programs and really don't even know if I did them correctly. I had trouble getting one of the parameters for the Cerwin-Vega (Le), so I wasn't able to include that. I wish someone who knew what they were doing could help me, but I don't want anyone to waste their time. I really do appreciate the help everyone has been.

BTW John, I see you're from AZ...Suns fan?

Edited February 15, 2008 by mightypecan

[johnecon2001 82]

Not since Shaq joined the team

[mightypecan 0]

I am wondering. I noticed the ideal specs for the Cerwin Vega V-Max 12 call for 0.7 ft3 of airspace, and the 15" call for 1.3 ft3. After displacement I would have roughly .9 ft3 with a 15"...would it be possible to compensate with polyfil enough to fit a bigger driver? Or would there even be any true benefit? I know...I'm gonna try to use these programs to figure this out...

[Robert_J 0]

I am wondering. I noticed the ideal specs for the Cerwin Vega V-Max 12 call for 0.7 ft3 of airspace, and the 15" call for 1.3 ft3. After displacement I would have roughly .9 ft3 with a 15"...would it be possible to compensate with polyfil enough to fit a bigger driver? Or would there even be any true benefit? I know...I'm gonna try to use these programs to figure this out...

Polyfil will give you a 10% to 12% increase. You won't get close to the 1.3cf required for the 15". And getting the Le (inductance) helps a little when modeling. The box size has the biggest impact on output though.

-Robert

[mightypecan 0]

Something doesn't seem right here with the Dayton. I entered the parameters below for each sub. Oh yeah, and this was also using the available airspace I have.

[Robert_J 0]

Something doesn't seem right here with the Dayton.

You have the Qes as 38.0. It should be .380. But I would use the parameters from the Dumax Report. Those should be much more accurate. Qes is close but Qms is half of what PE states in the description.

-Robert

[mightypecan 0]

Thanks Robert...redid it all using those parameters you provided. They all seem very similar.

I don't have a clue which is the best to get...what do I look for in each of those charts? The 12" Cerwin Vega seems to get the best response at lower frequencies, if I am looking at the SPL chart right.

Edited February 15, 2008 by mightypecan

[Robert_J 0]

Where's your excursion graph? If they are all similar on that, I'd go with the CV. I hope the new V-Max sounds like the old. They were closing the 15's out at Ubid.com for $85 each. I should have picked up 8 for my home theater instead of the 2 I got.

-Robert