mightypecan

Update: I changed the sub out to a Cerwin Vega VMAX 12.4...same problems. I then took my amp to a mobile electronics shop to have it evaluated. I believed it could have been the RCA inputs, as these MTX amps are known to have broken solder joints. This wasn't the case. The output transistors were gone. I think I know why, but that doesn't matter anymore. The repairman said it would be pretty pricey; rather look into getting a new amp. Keep in mind these guys aren't affiliated with any shops...they would have sent me somewhere if this were the case. Anyhow, I once had two MTX 6500D amps. I was going to have each power a 15" a while back, but actually sold it with my two 10's in the ported box I had a few years back. The guy who bought the stuff sold them to another guy I knew. I got in touch with him and he wasn't using the amp...just picked it up today...so...what's the big news? THE SHIVA IS FINE! I first listened to the Cerwin Vega and it was okay, but didn't hit as low as I am accustomed to nor did it seem to get very loud. This was a 2ohm load. I then put the Shiva on...4 ohm load. WOW. It totally kicks the crap out of the CV for this box. I added a little polyfil to the box, so I know they helped a tad, but it just moves way more air and doesn't get distorted nearly as easy. I'm glad this sub is fine. BTW, anyone need a Cerwin Vega VMAX 12.4?

Thanks for letting me know Chad! That Kenwood does about the same as my MTX amp, so that's a pretty good comparison. I was thinking no polyfil as well since a cubic ft seems to be a pretty good fit for that sub...at least in a sealed application.

I think the Cerwin Vega 12" is still the best option so far, wouldn't you agree? These are the Qs The CV 12" is 0.67 The Dayton 12" is 0.73 All the others I have tried have been 1 or greater. The basic goal, correct me if I'm wrong, is to have the smoothest curve possible? It looks like the CV and Dayton stay pretty similar in response, just the CV is slightly louder. I can actually get it cheaper as well.

Actually the airspace for the 15" comes out closer to .9 cf. The Qtc is 1.15. I think, for this box, the 12" seems the most stable (probably best musically sounding overall as well?). If you'd like to see how it looks in Unibox, please do so. If I wanted to sacrifice more space, I'd gladly make a larger box for a 15", but this box is a bit larger than the one I had the Shiva in for a couple of years, so I'd like to stick with it. I did another curve with a Kicker L5 12". There is still a hump, but not as drastic of a hump. Obviously it's the orange one...

How do I get an excursion graph within WinISD? I am using the 0.44 version, should I get the other "pro" version for this? BTW, here's a better modeled SPL graph, so you see the difference in each sub a little better (zoomed in more). Green = Cerwin Vega 15" Red = Cerwin Vega 12" Yellow = Dayton 12"

Thanks Robert...redid it all using those parameters you provided. They all seem very similar. I don't have a clue which is the best to get...what do I look for in each of those charts? The 12" Cerwin Vega seems to get the best response at lower frequencies, if I am looking at the SPL chart right.

Something doesn't seem right here with the Dayton. I entered the parameters below for each sub. Oh yeah, and this was also using the available airspace I have.

I am wondering. I noticed the ideal specs for the Cerwin Vega V-Max 12 call for 0.7 ft3 of airspace, and the 15" call for 1.3 ft3. After displacement I would have roughly .9 ft3 with a 15"...would it be possible to compensate with polyfil enough to fit a bigger driver? Or would there even be any true benefit? I know...I'm gonna try to use these programs to figure this out...

Thanks Robert. I tried Unibox and it seems that the Cerwin-Vega will be the overall loudest. I don't listen to music as loud as I once did...which is still probably weak compared to most true competitors (two MTX Thunder 8000 10s in a vented box...similar to the Obcon Gorilla setup...141.5 db), but it would still be nice to have as much 'bump' as possible for what little space I want to take up. I have the remote bass control for my amp, so it's always been convenient to adjust the volume of the subwoofer to better suit various forms of music. I've never owned Cerwin-Vega before, so I personally don't know much about them. I remember someone who had an old Stroker back in the day, but not many folks with the subs in general. I just want something that will get loud when I want it to, but also sound pretty good...I guess sort of an LSQ situation. Truthfully, I tried both of those programs and really don't even know if I did them correctly. I had trouble getting one of the parameters for the Cerwin-Vega (Le), so I wasn't able to include that. I wish someone who knew what they were doing could help me, but I don't want anyone to waste their time. I really do appreciate the help everyone has been. BTW John, I see you're from AZ...Suns fan?

I saw that when I was looking around...sounds quite nice. On the apps sheet however, it mentions that it does well in 1.5-2 cubic foot boxes. The Dayton says it will do well in 1-1.5...more in my area.

Not necessarily, but at the moment I'd prefer to stay under $125. I guess it depends on what I find. Do you know anyone with a Dayton 12"? The Cerwin-Vega stood out b/c of the advertised power handling (which may or may not be true) and ability to go to 2ohm. Truthfully I don't know how much of a difference it will be sending 600 watts to a sub in the same size enclosure as 400 watts to a different sub (CV advertises as having good sound quality, but I have my doubts...). I can get each subwoofer for about the same price. Take a look at these specs and see which you think would do best in a 1 cubic ft sealed box. The box is a wedge, and the angled part is against the passenger seat in a Ford Ranger supercab. The non-angled side is where the sub is mounted and it is firing towards the rear of the truck. There is approximately 6 inches between the sub and the rear of the truck. Dayton 12" DVC Diameter: 12 1/4" Cutout: 11" Front Mount Height: 3/4" Total Depth: 6 3/8" Displacement: 3 liters Re 2.69 ohms Le 1.81 mH Qms 12.53 Mms 197.6 grams Qes 38 Cms 0.334 mm/N Qts 369 Fs 21.73 Hz Sd 506.7 cm^2 Vas 9.89 ft^3 BL 14.2 Xmax 15.1 mm one way EBP 55.3 SPL 87.4 dB @ 1W/1m VC Dia. 2" Power Rating 350 watts per voice coil Power Rating 600 watts total to the driver. I couldn't get it on here this easily, but this is the link to the specs of the Cerwin-Vega. I really appreciate the help.

Those all look like nice subs...while looking at them on SSA I also found this CV. I've seen it all over the net while looking the past few days. Is it any good? Cerwin Vega VMAX 12.4 and how does it compare to a Dayton 12" DVC? I don't blame you for holding on to the Shiva...amazing subs.

I appreciate the offer John, but I really don't know much about the DLPs. It seems their Xmax isn't as great as the Dayton's, but truthfully I don't really know much about either. It's just tough finding info on Adire stuff nowadays. Is there any place to get the spec sheets of their stuff..in PDFs or something? Do you know of a good sub that can take 600 watts/rms that likes small spaces? Preferably a 12". Of course for this to be possible I'd need something I could take to 2ohm.

I've come to the conclusion that maybe the sub is messed up. Is the $125 shipped (estimate) Dayton Audio 12" DVC from Acoustic-Visions the best deal for this sub? As mentioned before by Robert they look like they might do better in a small box. I wish I could find the spec sheet for the Shiva to compare everything, but since the Adire site is no longer around it's a bit difficult to find. Also, would my amp, an MTX Thunder 6500D be okay with a Dayton? At 4 ohms I'd be giving the sub around 400 watts rms. In a lot of ways I wish I could find a good sub that would allow me to run this amp at 2ohm...it did it well with the two 10's I had a while back. But the problem is finding a sub that likes small spaces....1 cubic foot. I definitely want at least a 12".

I am not sure exactly what to do with the DMM. I tried to get a reading while moving the cone, but the numbers fluctuate so much due to shaking. I'm thinking it would be easier with push terminals...or tape them on? The default reading on the DMM was 1. in the 20M OHM setting. Both sets of terminals gave the same reading when I didn't press the cone down. The reading was just 0.00...and sometimes a '-' (negative) would blink off and on. Those Daytons, same as this one? BTW, does anyone have the spec sheet of the Shiva MK IV?