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About Xrc6

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    PC gaming, Wood working, general electronics, audio
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    2012 Honda Fit hatchback

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  1. Whatever the case, outside of competing, I fail to see the point for turning audio in a car to rocket science. You're listening to music you enjoy while driving A to B and all the basic information from gauge of wire to buy to the use of fast rings is shoved in your face before you even enter your credit card info anyway . Why anyone would max out their volume and push every watt they can I don't give a crap to know but for whatever it's worth, I have a cheap $50 O-scope and 10x probes. Aside from the millions of other handy uses such a thing has, I use -5 db 1000khz tone for fronts and -10 db 40hz tone for subs to use as a foundation to start with. Find the distortion level on my HU which becomes my max volume, set gains on amp then adjust by ear listening to my loudest music tracks. Top it off with a little time alignment, a sprinkle of EQ adjustment and ending it with a f***it by keeping my volume within moderate levels, loud enough to drown out traffic but not so loud that I can't hear EMS/Cop vehicles and turning it down when I"m at a stop light or in my neighborhood. Basically just common sense use of music listening without being a douschebag. I further that by not showing off my system or telling anyone I have anything. I added Clark Synthesis tactile transducers attached to my front seats just to augment my subwoofer so I don't feel the need to push my subs so deep that everyone within sight can spot me out but I can reap the benefits of feeling it more with less SPL. The fewer people that know I have something expensive in my car, the longer I get to keep it because it's for my audio pleasure only. But it sounds really nice inside the car without having to reverse engineer sound waves and attempt to bend the laws of physics to achieve it.
  2. Xrc6

    cheap basic o scope

    I normalized my entire music library for my car to -5db's using Platinum Notes and used -5db test tone and bought the DSO 112A and some better leads for $70. Worked out great. That way I had a more predominant means to prevent clipping than using my 41 year old ears, especially if I ever decided to indulge in Bandpass for kicks. I also went to a website that tests your hearing so I can make a make a graph to illustrate where my hearing starts to roll off and which frequencies that I perceived as being the loudest or to say that I'm most sensitive to. I think that plays a big role in ones audio bias. After I measured my car's acoustics I focused more on the frequencies I'm most sensitive to using my DSP and adjusted frequencies I'm least sensitive to and cut off the ones I can't hear anyway....then I readjusted my gains since I had to raise a number of frequencies. That helped tremendously for me fine tuning a sound signature that I prefer the most. A lot of audio knobs like to talk about how they only want to hear it as the artist intended..etc imo is nonsense when you consider that a lot of audio engineers in the studio don't have golden ears, some aren't very good at their job and how much $ a studio wants to invest is a major part of how the end result is going to be. That plus given the environment of a vehicle is why I personally process all my music to make it easier to have my entire collection cater to my individual taste.
  3. Xrc6


    I have 360.3. Personally never had any issues with it, worked perfectly.
  4. So when M5 said it's just the tip of the iceberg he meant it's the whole iceberg. Lol, that's pretty much what I thought.
  5. Because I had a limited question which was answered in first response. Thanks. Then what's the lower 3/4's of the iceberg that apparently doesn't involve tuning individual channels for better imaging?
  6. Not sure I understand your comment. I know what the DSP is and what the 360 can do, that is why I bought it. What I am doing is of course tuning my audio system to my vehicles acoustics from a factory unit and tuning to my sound bias (preference) using TA and phasing for each channel to create a better front stage...what else would anyone do with a DSP? My question was in regards to some posts I read stating you don't adjust the gain on the amp. Having Output gain explains what they were meaning.
  7. I know what the gain is and how to set it. I didn't know it had output gain, as I said I just bought it.
  8. Recently got the 360.3. I was reading some older threads found on google and I noticed a couple of posts mentioned that once you get the 360 setup and tweaked that your supposed to keep your amp gain down and you don't have to do any further adjustments. I think because of the 360's output somehow?....I just wanted some clarification on this.
  9. I already mentioned what I changed as well as toyed with which is what my HU has. I already have the phase angles lined up, I mentioned I did the phasing in the last post. Again I have the crossover overlapped at 80hz, I toyed with all the variations and EQ was to flatten it all out as best I can but that EQ controls both sub and fronts. At least I never knew of a HU that offered seperate EQ for each output. No disrespect but your post sounds like you're giving me the run around while going nowhere other than you now mention about getting new drivers. The C5's weren't the cheapest on the market but what model from what brand would you recommend that would offer better mid bass while maintaining the same good sound quality throughout the rest of the spectrum? Again they do sound really good but just lack the mid bass to blend in with the sub or to say that the sub 50-80hz is too loud/over bearing to de-localize You can see my cabin gain graph. That's why I thought more frequency control individually between the mid and subs from something like that Audiocontrol would allow me to flatten out the severe slopes between the 2 better...if the 80 hz is way too loud from my subwoofer while my mid bass at 80hz is too low and my HU EQ is controlling both, then wouldn't I need to seperate the EQ between the 2? As I see it since I already did everything I'm supposed to with what I have... less you can explain something I missed, then the mid bass from both mid and sub need to better align so my sub is not so loud at the upper frequencies. I'm assuming that's why I can localize it...or I need to gain those frequencies from the mids. But you're telling me the Audiocontrol won't do any good but if I have the same issue with the next components then I'm not achieving anything so what component set would you recommend?...I mean the C5's are like $500 retail so I'm a little Leary to spend that much or more for another set without some reason as to why the JL's are not cutting it...like do they have too high of an FS? I don't think the specs mentioned but JL usually does good with their T/S in regards to SQ.
  10. Well that would be a lengthy post. I'll try to be very short and keep in mind since I don't have a processor like some do, I'm more limited in what I can tune. I always start with the fronts alone. Set amp gain to my music's -12db's (I normalize my music in audio editing so there is less discrepancy between albums allowing me to make better use of the wattage since 0db tracks would yield far different output than -9db tracks for example. Then I adjust dynamics...etc all in batch audio editing. This way my gain is more fully utilized across my entire collection.) I then adjust crossover to a basic 80hz or 100hz overlap and readjust it later after I turn my subwoofer on. I move to EQ which for the HU is 13 band. I start flat and will readjust to match my vehicles acoustics as close as it'll allow later. I then move to the Time alignment, I first allow the HU and microphone to automatically do it, then I manually tweak it using a measuring tape and comparing differences using my ears to well known music. Once I get the front stage high enough to where it's all coming from head level in front of me. Then I'll toy with phasing some more and adjust my EQ cutting where necessary and comparing with my ears and my RTA...once I get the RTA pretty flat I'll adjust the EQ some more. I then bring in my subwoofer, readjust crossover if necessary and been trying to bring it up front. I have toyed with everything listed yet again with mediocre results. Here is when I played with boosting mid bass levels up front but again it just sounds boomy and really does nothing to bring the sub 50hz bass up to the front stage. I've done experiements with other features on my HU like Loudness, phases for each speaker, even volume normalizing....I can get it to where it all sounds really crisp, clear and tight punch from subwoofer but again I just can't seem to delocalize the bass, it still sounds behind me. I have also used other source material such as CD and radio along with test sweeps and pink noise when tuning. Of course I do adjust sub output so it's not too pronounced and try to make it where it still sounds good without losing presence...and that may be a problem with wattage at a given volume. However you mention hardware is not important. I disagree since for example using something like $20 Boss coaxials is not going to be very good for SQ so I don't understand your meaning there. Time alignment again is important for staging and full band EQ would be important for discrepancies in vehicle acoustics....perhaps you can clarify your meaning. As noted in my previous acoustic graph, it's a Honda Fit which is a hatchback. facing the sub to the side, up, back or to front doesn't make any noticeable changes at all. Probably because it's a hatch and pretty open, flat area throughout the entire cab. Yes HU has full time alignment. The subwoofer is adjusted for the distance but no amount of delay seems to bring the sub up front...I can always tell it's coming from the back. Now today I did swap subwoofers to an Earthquake which is better at the deeper frequencies (louder) using same size sealed enclosure and according to Bassbox Pro, this box yields a flatter response than my W3v3 sub...I think that did help delocalize it better since the lowest frequencies were louder than the 50-80hz unlike the W3...but my new theory is that perhaps the issue is the entire cab itself...it's a hatch and very rectangular like inside, this might have some issue in localization. OR it could be a power issue, even though I only ever listen at only half volume when driving, my fronts (75 watts) may not have enough headroom for mid bass? and perhaps why it sounds pronounced and sloppy if I boost those frequencies?
  11. Xrc6

    Sub Comparison pics

    Did a side by side listening test comparison of these today, all else being equal, even using the same 1.25 ft3 sealed enclosure. This is a space size comparison in the same trunk between an 8 inch with 2 passive radiators and a 12 inch ported. An old setup of mine.
  12. I don't really want to take the panel off just to show a pic, not sure what you expect to see since the entire door is sealed up using Fatmat with just the mounting clip holes exposed so that the panel clips can go in. It's done the same way all proper installs are done except the fact that I probably put more sound damping on the door than most typically do and I did not make my own spacer and foam rings, I bought them aftermarket and I used 14 gauge OFC speaker wire, gold terminals, heat shrink around the ends and contact grease to ensure full contact on all contact points. This is far from my first rodeo but rather it's the first time I've ever had time alignment and ever tried to delocalize my subs. The install itself is top shelf without going so far as to modify door panels, things like that. As far as how it sounds, I thought I already explained that. if I try to boost the mid bass regions like 80hz, 100hz or 120hz, the mid bass can sound boomy like there is high group delay ...in other words it's not resonating with the chest cavity, it's not tight and you can't feel that little kick like you can with some OEM systems I've experienced. With subs off, it sounds like there is no sub bass. Not sure what your asking. phasing is just part of tuning a system. I don't have an expensive processor to completely tune it of course so I'm working with what I have. Like I said before, it all sounds really good except that I can tell where the bass is coming from...not sure I can be any more clear than that. I have a measurement of my vehicle as you can see here, there is a sharp drop off at 70hz and I tried to fix that using boost at 80hz which is as close on my EQ I can get but noticed no difference that seemed significant to me anyway.
  13. I still can't quite get my subs to sound more up front. My fronts just lack any kind of punch though they seem to be able to handle bass if I toy with boost or loud modes but they don't really have that punch that some OEM speakers without any amp have. I'm sure you know what I mean, like the mid bass region isn't tight despite the door is all sealed up and I use time alignment. Here is what I have and what I have done. Pioneer avx-3700bh JL Audio C5 component speakers up front. woofer is in door and tweeter is up far corner of dash where default tweeters were. JL Audio XD 3 channel amp Silver cladded OFC RCA wires and Knuconceptz power JL Audio w3v3 soon to be replaced with two 12's. So far I have purchased proper door mounting plate and foam rings that go between the speaker and the outer door panel. I have sealed up the entire door with Fatmat sound deadner...neither didn't really seem to do much. My HU has time alignment and 13 band EQ. Time alignment is set to proper distances from the speakers to my head. Everything actually sounds really good except that I can tell that the bass is behind me. Rear speakers not in use btw. I have been considering something like the Audio Control EQS 6 channel to give me more control over the frequencies..would this help or is it just the speakers? The sub sounds best out of phase but I can still tell where it's coming from. My amp has Xover over lapped with the sub at 80hz and fronts at 60hz...changing this really doesn't seem to be very noticeable, it actually sounds better with the subwoofer crossed at 60hz but obviously my fronts can't go that deep, I doubt much is happening under 100 hz on the fronts but they don't distort if I use bass boost but just sound boomy