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Those are built off the factory kick panel, per Cablguy. He said he would post more pics in a little while. Hey Cablguy.....we're waiting!!!!

If an amp (*with the same power*) changed your midbass that is MUCH more a pyschoacoutic reaction than the dash pad. WAY more. Of course, I assume you re-tuned everything before coming to that conclusion. Either that or your previous amp was seriously falling on its face when playing anything with dynamics. A decent mid should be able to boogie in the right install. Hitting the backplate would make me look for a different mid. Mine are HP (should say were as I yanked everything out a week ago) at 40Hz (had been for well more than a year) and even if I ran them full range it took some serious notes to make them sweat. Midbass was awesome for a 6.5/7 as well. As for posting your aiming it would probably be interesting to someone with your exact truck and your exact tweeters, for anyone else it won't help at all. Pictures of course make everyone on here happy. Good luck, let us know how it goes and definitely throw up questions if they come in the process The Q50 is rated at 50 x 4, mine is making around 60-70 x 4 give or take a little, the 2.2HV is making around 125-150 x 2. Running passive, Ithe tweeters seem brighter than before, but I attribute that to not being able to knock the level down with the xo-3. The 2.2 seemed to make a difference in the midbass at higher listening levels. Upon further reflection, it made a difference in everything, not just midbass. I can achieve a much higher overall volume level without "compression" I guess is the correct word? Basically, I can play it louder and it still stays clear. The Q50 just seemed to be running out of steam at higher volumes. The one thing I really liked about the active setup was the control over all the drivers. If the tweets were too loud, I could turn them down at the crossover (xo-3). To get the same sound I had before, I have to turn the sub bass and mid bass up on the PA-II and that's when the 6.5's pop, but it's only when I'm listening to bass heavy music. (magic mike, ying yang twins, bass cd's) With music that is recorded less bass heavy, it's not a problem. I have another pair of tweeters that I may try to mount in the door and see what happens. All I would have to do to test is run a speaker wire to a temp. mounted tweeter and listen. If I like what I hear, I'll run a wire in the door and mount the crossover behind the door panel if I can find a cubby hole somewhere. Otherwise I'll leave them where they are and run a wire from that location. This weekend is going to be really busy with testing different phases, locations, etc.....once I get them finalized, I'll be sure to get pics up showing what I did. I figure there may be a few people on here with trucks like ours who would like to see what others are doing. Thanks for all the tips to try! You said you yanked out your system? You re-doing it or get a different vehicle? I'm sure there are LOTS of people who would like to see a build if you wouldn't mind posting one! Oh yeah, where did you find all that stuff in your sig for $1500???? Wanna share?

I'm tuned in....and damn that's a big freaking dog in that truck!! What do you feed him......traveling salesmen?

Great attention to detail J-road, that's what makes a build like this special. I look forward to more of this build, keep up the great work!

Cool deal M5, no harm, no foul. I just wish I knew more of the "technical" aspects of this hobby. I know what has and hasn't worked for me in the past and that is the information I try to give to others. When I know (or think I know) a technical point I try to share it, but I'm not beyond saying I have absolutely no idea how some of this stuff works from a physics standpoint. (that's where you guys come in) I would love to hear some of the new products on the market to see how they compare to what I've used in the past. Amplifier-wise, it will be hard to pry me away from LP, but it's a product I know and I have LONG-standing ties with Ray. I've known him for the better part of 25 years, so there's a lot of history there. I've also known Blues since it was started many moons ago and have some items that a lot of people never got to see, like the truck box triso that is something like 4" deep at the top, 7-8" deep at the bottom, houses two 8's and a ten with ports coming out the sides. Sad part is I own the darn thing, and STILL can't figure out how they built it! I hope that by being here I can learn more of the science behind this hobby and in the process pass along what I've learned to others that may be not as "seasoned." (ok, I'm an old fart, but I'm only as old as I feel!) I am really interested to hear about the solution with the horns, I can only imagine the volume those would create on a truck cabin! OP, PLEASE post pics if and when you put horns in, I want to see how you dealt with the install challenges. I'm sure you'll come up with something!

The mic is whatever they use in dB drag. The mic is then placed in a box on the passenger side of the power wheel vehicle. The subs play into that box, but I've not seen how it works. The way I imagine it is a box with the subs on top and an opening sort of like a square box on the front of that kind of like a compression chamber that everything funnels into. Again, I haven't seen it so I can't say for sure. I'll print out your post and get as much info as I can. I do know it was digital designs 12's, don't know the series however. The amps were Linear Power 4.1HV's. I know there were other batteries, but I'll have to ask what they were. The vehicle competed in USACi finals in Tulsa where it made that score. You can search for Alexis Hill in USAC and I believe there is a video on YouTube that shows the run. The cd player was skipping like crazy but they finally got it to hold long enough to set the score. As for the rest, I'll get as much info as they will give me. Hope that answered some of your questions, I'll try to answer the rest as best I can after I talk to them.

Chop, What do you want me to find out for you? I know it has batteries somewhere under the bodywork, but I don't know the voltage of them. I will try to get better pics if she and her father go to the show at the end of the month. Is there anything in particular you want me to ask him/them?

Just for giggles I put my coat up on top of the dash and it actually made it sound a little better. (or maybe psychoacoustics?) I'll try the tweeters alone this weekend when I play with the angles on the mids in the doors. Right now they are fired straight across at each other behind the factory panel. I'm going to take off the panel and try aiming them forward towards the windshield, up and forward, and also up and back to see if it makes much difference. Fortunately the tweeters aren't mounted permanently yet so I can just use tape to hold them where I want them to aim. Once I'm satisfied with the aiming, I'll post my results here for anyone who's interested. I'll get my new 6.5's when I go down for the show so everything I do now may be for naught, but at least I'll be close. What amazes me is the difference in midbass from changing amps. I had decent midbass before, but once I put my new amp on them, they really came alive. I do have to be careful with the volume knob. With as low as I have them crossed, if I play anything bass heavy they will pop, which I assume is something hitting the backplate. I see you have your tweets in the doors with the mids.....do you find that it images better from there?

Got the front playing yesterday....no pics yet....don't want to take any of the back wall with the amps until they are mounted permanently. Right now they are on just the bare wood because the actual amps that are going in the truck are getting the heatsinks refinished. I have a 2.2HV on the fronts now and it blows my Q50 away. There is no comparison. The dynamics are better, volume is much easier to come by, and it just generally sounds less "strained" at higher volumes. I hope to have the sub installed by THIS weekend, unfortunately I have other pressing things until then so I have to go without the sub for just a little while longer. I also have to figure out how to patch a hole I made for speaker wire. (it's only a 1/8" hole) I was going to use 5 way binding posts and after I drilled the first hole I didn't like where they would be and decided that just straight wire would make a better connection instead of amp to post, post to speaker. I'm thinking right now to put duct tape over the hole and fill it with glue and sawdust, compressing it with a the end of a drill bit so it is as dense as the rest of the wood around it. Then silicone over it after it dries. I guess I could always fill it with fiberglass and resin as another option. Once I have everything in the truck looking like it should look, I'll take more pics and post them here. Then the fun part begins! Tuning! At present, I have everything in phase + to +, - to - from amp to speakers. There is a side bias on both sides of the truck that I hope to be able to correct somewhat with different aiming of the tweeters and mids. It's a real pain to turn the baffle, put the door back on, listen, remove door panel, turn the baffle, put the door back on, etc.... so I'm not sure how I want to tackle that part. I have LOTS of experimenting to do! I'll try to post here a log of what I did and what the results were for the phase changes in case anyone else wants to see what changes occured in my truck. For those of you with a regular cab silverado, I'm open to suggestions! At present, this is the setup. Regular cab Silverado. Eclipse CD5441 to LP PA-II preamp. All eq bands set flat. From Preamp to LP XO-3 crossover. High passed at 40Hz, 12 dB / octave. 6.5's run from there up until they naturally roll off. No idea what frequency that is. Tweets are crossed passively at 3,000Hz, 12 dB / octave. Power from LP 2.2HV. Tweets are firing directly at each other, slightly angled up towards the rear view mirror. Soundstage is on the dash, but voices seem to eminate from both sides, it's not focused in the center as it should be. I'm going to play with the angles of the tweeters a bit and see what happens. Fortunately, male and female voices seem to come from the same height, so I hope it won't be too much work to correct. Stage is wide, out to the a-pillars, maybe slightly beyond. That's all for now! More updates soon!

Is it just me, or is only one coil of each of those drivers hooked up? Workmanship looks good, I like the crossover placement, looks much better there. Keep the pics coming!

That is dB's sir.....she's an official member of the 180dB club on USAC. Alexis Hill is her name. Her father Eddie Hill was also a good competitor in his own right. I believe he did very well in 96, 97, 98, and 99 or something like that. Had a really cool truck that was painted with polka dots that faded from white to turquoise and his plates said, "U C DOTS." I can't remember what all he had in there, but it was a really nice build. Alexis had two Digital Designs 12's running off a pair of LP 4.1HV's on her stretched powerwheels Caddy. I'm not sure of the particulars of how they score those, from what I understand there is a box that the subwoofers play into and they put the sensor in that. The rest I can't help with because I just don't know. This year's finals was the first time I ever saw a powerwheels vehicle, so they are new to me and I just don't know that much about them. If you want to know anything else, I'll see her father at the end of the month and I can ask him then.

I hear you on USA made equipment, but I have yet to read anything negative about Sundown. In my humble opinion I think it'll be fine, and as others have said, they have some of the best customer service in the business in case you need it.

Thank you M5 for explaining why you react the way you have towards Randal. I don't like when anyone BS's any more than you do and I understand your frustration with some of the questions that get asked. But as we are older (I assume you are similar age to me judging from your experience and knowledge base) we should show the maturity that comes with that wisdom. I do feel responsible because I asked him to join. I know him away from the boards and he is not boastful in real life. He has been chasing 6Appeal and the rest of us in our circle for a long time. Now that he has done well, he's proud of himself, and we in turn are proud of him. He does have a good team behind him to get him this far and he, I think, wants to share what he's learned with everyone else. I really wish you could sit in his truck to see what it sounds like so you could understand his enthusiasm. We can all learn from each other, obviously some of us more than others, that is why this forum is so great. I view you and Impious with a great deal of respect, and value your opinions. To get back on topic, I've been in my truck all day looking at the dash and the only way I can see to put horns on top requires cutting the dash and putting them down where the defroster vents are. That's waaaay beyond my skill set, but possibly not beyond the OP. Under the dash on the driver side is no problem, but the passenger side has the heater or a/c or whatever that huge chunk of plastic is down there, and I haven't seen a horn body other than maybe the ID mini horns that would fit. Even then I'm not sure if the compression driver body would fit in the corner. It just seems too big to fit without a lot of cutting. That's why I suggested multiple tweeters so there would be minimal modification to the vehicle, but that may not be a concern in this instance. The only other thing I can think of for mounting horns is the rotomount horn body I believe Speakerworks makes/sells and that might fit without a lot of trouble.

NCSU, isn't your dash similar to mine? I have an 02 Silverado. I don't see any way to get a horn on top of the dash without a lot of cutting. Cone area will be your friend for getting loud, and for an easier install I would look at multiple tweeters per side. If you are set on horns, I can't be any help because I wouldn't want to cut my truck enough to make the ones I have seen fit, but this isn't my truck. I'll try to find some installs of horns on trucks like ours tomorrow when I have a computer instead of my phone to search with. You might look on cardomain and see if there is anyone who's installed horns on there, or maybe give Eric a call at ID and he might can guide you on how to install them. That's the best help I can offer, wish I could help more.

I think Cablguy is trying to say his amps are around 200 watts per channel, 400 total to all 6's and tweets. We know that in normal listening, even if you have 1,000 watts on tap, nowhere near that much is actually being used at any one time for normal listening levels, as it would only be just a few watts. He just has that much in reserve power for musical peaks. To get back on topic, I still stand behind my statement of using a GOOD midbass (or two) with a strong amp in either the kicks or the doors or BOTH to give the OP the volume level he wants from them. Not sure how to mount a pair of horns in his vehicle since it's similar to mine and I have no idea how I could mount a horn on the passenger side without MAJOR surgery. My gut feeling is a pair of capable midbass/midrange drivers paired with a good tweeter or two up high on each side, OR a pair of good midbass drivers on each side with a pair of full-rangers in the a-pillars would meet his needs. For full range drivers I will have to defer a recommendation as I only know what I've read about them. For midbass I would look at Peerless SLS or similar drivers. Ultimately the OP will have to audition individual drivers himself and make the decision on what gives him the sound he's looking for. All we as members of the forum can do is recommend things to him based on our experience. Now, I don't think ANYONE on this forum would deliberately lie in an attempt to mislead someone. I also don't think it's necessary to slam someone every time they type on this forum. Disagreements are bound to happen, but as adults we should be able to solve those differences without all the extra crap that's going on. Sean, I know you know your stuff...I've read your posts for several years now on various forums and you were always helpful and explained things to new people in a manner that everyone could understand. THAT is why I joined this forum. But something has happened to the knowledgeable, conceintious person that was always so helpful before. We ALL were newbs once, it's up to the ones who've been around for awhile to teach the new ones coming up without making them feel stupid. I feel like I can make contributions to this forum, but I don't for fear of being run over. I would like to see the bickering stop. It's not helpful to anyone. I spoke to Cablguy and he's not going to post anymore. Hopefully you two can get the bad blood worked out because it's not helping anyone. To the OP... I'm sorry all this has gone on in your post. I hope that you can look beyond all the bickering and get some good information to help you get what you want from your system. Good luck with your search/build and let us know what you decide. And be sure to post pics!

I had just read good things about the sound...I have to admit I didn't look at the specs. What tweeter would you recommend for him? Its pretty hard for me to think of a mellow tweeter that would get SPL loud, sounds almost contradictory in my simple brain. Every tweeter that I can think of as loud seems overly bright to me, certainly not mellow. Maybe a pro sound tweeter of some sort?

Exclusive is what I was trying to remember, I guess it doesn't have the midbass punch I thought it did. As far as tweets go, how does the tangband ceramic sound for use in this application?

Sorry, scratch the Peerless SLS, it's midbass only, not two way. I think there is another Peerless driver that is good in a two way, I'll try to find the model for you, unless someone else knows which one I'm talking about. Got caught up on midbass part and forgot the two-way part. I think Mypre made one that might be good for you as well.

If you want to run a pair of midbass drivers up front, you can squeeze a pair of 6.5's in each door, I believe there is a thread on fullsizechevy.com that shows a build on how they achieved this. As far as drivers go, there are a number of speakers that would get the job done, ones I would look at are the AA polys (from what I have read they are supposed to have good midbass punch), Peerless SLS (again based on reading, not actual use), and maybe the Tangbands. I only throw those out because of reviews I've read online, NOT personal experience. A well damped and sealed door would be a must for good midbass, as well as a very solid mounting surface. Putting some clay between the baffle and the door should help as well. The ones in my truck are mounted to an mdf baffle that has clay between it and the door, with clay all mashed up around it as well. The holes in my doors are sealed with a fiberglass panel with dampening material over it. I can't say if the panels IMPROVED my midbass because I did it before I installed them. Just get a good midbass (or two) and put a good strong amp on them and you should be fine. Hope that gave you some ideas.

Keep up the good work, looks like you're off to a great start!

Sounds like you have a good handle on things, hopefully it won't take too long to tune so you can get back to doing what we all love on this forum...listening to music! Good luck with the tuning, I'm sure you'll have it sounding great soon. Then let the good times roll!

Don't know if it helps or not, but when I had mine playing before, my mids were in phase on both sides, the tweets were both out of phase relative to the mids. We have different vehicles so I don't know if that will work for you, but it's worth a shot. For giggles, try letting your mids play as high as they can when you reverse the phase on the tweets. It may not work, but then again it might. I'm jealous of your woodworking skills, I've got a LOT of practice to do to catch up! That looks GREAT! Keep the pics coming!

Thanks Impious for that incredible explanation...you just explained in one post what I've spent months trying to understand. Thank you for using layman's terms for those unfortunate souls like me that had to go accounting because we couldn't cut it in physics!

Yes, the front tweeters are crossed over at 3,000Hz passive, 12dB per octave, the 6.5's are crossed over at 32Hz, 12dB per octave high pass and roll off naturally on the high end, all run off a modified LP 2.2HV.

I heard his truck at finals and I didn't know there were rear speakers in the truck until they told me. Even with the rear seat out, EVERYTHING came from in front of you and was high up on the dash, including sub-bass. I don't know what he did with them, or even what they were / are, but his stage is still in front of you, extending beyond the a-pillars, both in front of you and sideways. I also looked at the angle of his kick panels and the angle of the 6 1/2's really threw me for a loop because of where they were aiming. I don't know how they work, or why, because it SEEMS like it should NOT work, but it does. I've been reading everything I can find on frequencies and angles and height and from what I've read, it seems that tweeters up high do help bring the stage up, midbass/midrange frequencies are not as directional and can be off-axis somewhat and still work because of the wavelength of the frequencies they reproduce, but I can't explain why. We all know subs are omni-directional, so that's easy to make sound up front by crossing them over low enough and having a capable midbass driver up front. That part I can grasp, I just wish I knew the physics behind all the other stuff, since I just know enough to be dangerous. All I know is SOMEHOW the combination of angles, levels, materials, and components in his truck work, and WORK WELL TOGETHER. For the amount of money he's spent, the return on his investment is pretty darn good. Am I saying it sounds better than EVERY SQ vehicle that's ever been built, NO, but if I have to almost buy a freaking HOUSE to make my vehicle sound better, mine just isn't going to sound better. I do recall a guy from a few years back that did quite well with a green Ford Probe that had a center channel in the REAR of his car, built into the hatch cover firing off the back glass. That didn't seem like it would work either, but it did. I'll try to find the magazine with him in it. (I only remember it because I used to have a car just like it) Conventional wisdom says that most of the things in his truck SHOULDN'T WORK....he's just not afraid to try something new and if it doesn't work, try something else. He has a pretty good team of minds helping him, and they all like to push the envelope a little to see if they can do what says can't be done. One of those guys put 144 12" Polk subs (yes, 144 subs, that's 1152 screws in case any of you were wondering) in a bread truck once because someone said he couldn't do it! I think he just likes to try different things and experiment and if it doesn't work, he didn't fail, he just found another way that won't work. But every now and then, one of those WTF things actually turns out and then we all try to figure out WHY. I just try to keep an open mind now since I've heard it. To my knowledge there is also NO DEADENING ANYWHERE in his truck which makes me wonder WTF??? Like I say, I can't explain the physics behind it all, because I don't know enough of it, so maybe someone else here can? Please! Pretty please! Settings on his crossovers are high pass to 6's somewhere around 32Hz for critical listening, higher for playing on the weekends. Tweets are passively crossed over I think around 3,000Hz and all eq frequencies are set to flat including bass/treble on head unit. Subs are crossed over low pass at 54Hz, all slopes are 12dB per octave I think except for subs which is 24dB per octave. The PA-II is used as a pre-amp with the head unit volume set to the maximum unclipped output level and volume is controlled by the PA-II. His crossover is an XO-3 which has level controls built in for adjustments on the fly. I can't speak for what's under the kicks because I've not seen under them. That's all I know until the end of the month when I tear his truck apart right before the show in Jackson. He doesn't know about that yet, don'r read this part Cablguy!