Introducing Supergauss

[djphilly 11]

that's going to be a badass sub!!

[Marlo Stanfield 0]

Here's a side veiw of a Crossfire XS SPL..

Is this what is going into Mick's new setup, along with the 8 Crossfire 4000Ds?? Or are the older XS-SPLs gonna be in there for the time being??

[the_dude 1]

That looks like it's going to be a beast.

[mjmarovi 8]

this thread dying? thought this woofer was going to be out soon, any updates?

[kryptonitewhite 1]

Onebadmonte... how you clicking off pics like that from our "testfacility"...lol

I'm glad you guys updated that prototype to what you have pictured. =] It looks unreal. Pity it all goes in the box. Now for my signature question. Will this beast be available in a 22" =] Awesome work.

YES 22's!

AHAHAHA... love that. Google does all of my engineering

No reason not to have a 22" version of it. I have the "6 spoke" 22" designed, but think for sake of tooling cost (considering the 22" in this style basket will never be as big a seller as the 18 or 15) we will simply go with the original design I had for that series. Something I havent quite seen before, but we should have a cast version to play with in the next two weeks. We will decide from there if it will be worth the tooling cost.

Actually, no there is no secondary suspension to avoid coil rock in the pure SPL subs. So... I simply embraced it and did something else about it. Something that for SPL is all benefit. Problem with some things we do is that I dont want to give away the farm... or at least feel that if someone wants to figure out what is done, at least buy one...lol. We have spent lots of time testing and trying different things and have to figure if its worth mentioning exactly what is done and others picking up on it to use as well, vs not mentioning things and let them slowly pick up on it and then use it.

We could have made significantly more motor force on the *** than we have, but it simply isnt needed in a daily driver. We are currently testing the limits on just how much motor force is useful for SPL applications as well. We have some exceedingly high Gauss densities in SG2 and SG3 that arent seeing realistic gains any longer in SPL. It seems we are fairly well up into the point of diminishing returns with respect to motor force. Mentioning Gauss volumes really doesnt have any benefit to the consumer as its not a normal value, and Im sure a great many manufacturers dont use it either. We are currently testing with BL^2/Re figures of over 2800 which are almost a good order of magnitude better than most big daily subs. And that is by no means the limit of things either.

No vent on the poles for the SPL versions. Although the *** could have a 2" vent and still not loose force, it just takes too long to bore out a 2" hole in a 4" core that is almost 8" long. We cant find 4"X2" tube in the correct material in the US. Otherwise we would use that and save the material and weight. Drilling a 1.5" hole (biggest bit I have to run that deep on the 32" swing lathe) then using a boring bar to clean it out to 2" is just a waste of machine time. Customer just gets to lift an extra 3lbs of steel

22's!!

So Is this a good SQ motor topology? or is it strictly SPL? you said no to a secound spider on the spl side of things does that mean you have a plan for a SQ sub with one?

great ?

Lol... while comical references abound for that, I wont be the one that starts them

There is no reason why this cant be used for SQ applications at all. Not so much for the extreme motor force you can achieve, but simply to reduce the rear motor footprint in the airflow path. Or that it allows a similar set of soft parts to be used in a similar diameter motor, but now with heavy copper sleeving on the pole where that would have previously reduced motor force to an undersireable limit. It can be used in extreme underhung designs as well. No shortage of SQ uses as what SG does has nothing to do with the quality of sound, just a different way of achieving the desired motor force.

so really not much advantage on the SQ side

wow can't wait to see some sq subs with this topology a thick full sleeve of copper sounds great for heat dissapation and as a huge shorting ring... wish I could talk to you more about it but i know your a busy guy...

doesnt sound like much benefit

noone cares to comment on that crossfire sub ????? how is the AA design different ?

ya wtf

wow

Edited December 22, 2009 by kryptonitewhite

[Duran 387]

Onebadmonte... how you clicking off pics like that from our "testfacility"...lol

I'm glad you guys updated that prototype to what you have pictured. =] It looks unreal. Pity it all goes in the box. Now for my signature question. Will this beast be available in a 22" =] Awesome work.

YES 22's!

AHAHAHA... love that. Google does all of my engineering

No reason not to have a 22" version of it. I have the "6 spoke" 22" designed, but think for sake of tooling cost (considering the 22" in this style basket will never be as big a seller as the 18 or 15) we will simply go with the original design I had for that series. Something I havent quite seen before, but we should have a cast version to play with in the next two weeks. We will decide from there if it will be worth the tooling cost.

Actually, no there is no secondary suspension to avoid coil rock in the pure SPL subs. So... I simply embraced it and did something else about it. Something that for SPL is all benefit. Problem with some things we do is that I dont want to give away the farm... or at least feel that if someone wants to figure out what is done, at least buy one...lol. We have spent lots of time testing and trying different things and have to figure if its worth mentioning exactly what is done and others picking up on it to use as well, vs not mentioning things and let them slowly pick up on it and then use it.

We could have made significantly more motor force on the *** than we have, but it simply isnt needed in a daily driver. We are currently testing the limits on just how much motor force is useful for SPL applications as well. We have some exceedingly high Gauss densities in SG2 and SG3 that arent seeing realistic gains any longer in SPL. It seems we are fairly well up into the point of diminishing returns with respect to motor force. Mentioning Gauss volumes really doesnt have any benefit to the consumer as its not a normal value, and Im sure a great many manufacturers dont use it either. We are currently testing with BL^2/Re figures of over 2800 which are almost a good order of magnitude better than most big daily subs. And that is by no means the limit of things either.

No vent on the poles for the SPL versions. Although the *** could have a 2" vent and still not loose force, it just takes too long to bore out a 2" hole in a 4" core that is almost 8" long. We cant find 4"X2" tube in the correct material in the US. Otherwise we would use that and save the material and weight. Drilling a 1.5" hole (biggest bit I have to run that deep on the 32" swing lathe) then using a boring bar to clean it out to 2" is just a waste of machine time. Customer just gets to lift an extra 3lbs of steel

22's!!

So Is this a good SQ motor topology? or is it strictly SPL? you said no to a secound spider on the spl side of things does that mean you have a plan for a SQ sub with one?

great ?

Lol... while comical references abound for that, I wont be the one that starts them

There is no reason why this cant be used for SQ applications at all. Not so much for the extreme motor force you can achieve, but simply to reduce the rear motor footprint in the airflow path. Or that it allows a similar set of soft parts to be used in a similar diameter motor, but now with heavy copper sleeving on the pole where that would have previously reduced motor force to an undersireable limit. It can be used in extreme underhung designs as well. No shortage of SQ uses as what SG does has nothing to do with the quality of sound, just a different way of achieving the desired motor force.

so really not much advantage on the SQ side

wow can't wait to see some sq subs with this topology a thick full sleeve of copper sounds great for heat dissapation and as a huge shorting ring... wish I could talk to you more about it but i know your a busy guy...

doesnt sound like much benefit

noone cares to comment on that crossfire sub ????? how is the AA design different ?

ya wtf

wow

Fi manufactures Crossfire's custom subs, the XS and XS=SPL series.

[Fi Car Audio 64]

Steves been playing with the 4 18s in the Tahoe for a couple of days and is exceedingly happy with them. Looks good for CES and the Jan 1st drop date for the new line.

[nphocus 0]

Now that, is good news.

[lee 2]

i just got back from vegas and getting demos from steve and what not. let me tell you, i am ready to own some of these.

cant wait to see the final product

[Duran 387]

Scott can these be mounted horizontally? With two motors I can't see how that's possible without the basket breaking.

[Technology 10]

Monster !!

Hey Scott can you please check your e-mail. My e-mail address is jmrincon@sbcglobal.net or it might just show my name. Mathew

[Fi Car Audio 64]

Not seeing anything can you send it to ascendantaudio "@" hotmail.com then?

[Ricci 0]

Any comments on some of the questions about compromises with this type of design brought up earlier? Any new news?

It appears that the spider compliment/placement is the same as a usual single motor driver and with the extra long former, how is coil rock controlled at high excursion? Extra wide gap sacking back some of the force gained with the double motor approach? I also wonder about possible frame damage or misalignment issues with so many parts stacking up and the back motor able to leverage so much force on the basket in a horizontal position? I know you probably won't answer but is it a single very long vc wind/ single very long gap or is it a split coil/ separated double vc/ 2 separate magnetic gaps approach? Perhaps even a triple/quad split coil with 2 separate gaps(yeah right). I'm going to guess that it is 2 separate overhung type motor systems and gaps in tandem on a single cone.

You mentioned a BL^2/RE of over 2800!...I can't think of a single driver available that is over 350 even and anything above 200 is pretty strong already in day to day use. At some point doesn't the magnetic gap become saturated? How in the hell...Super tiny gap?

[NDMstang65 403]

You couldn't be any more incorrect about everything you just assumed .

The BL curve is very very very parabolic..and yes it does have a bl^2/re that high..it sounds fantastic because you don't have coil(s) leaving the magnetic gap in areas of high concentration...

Coil rock is not an issue..it simply does not rock. 1) Because we know how to design a spider that doesn't flop around like a dead fish and don't use off the shelf flim flam junk like others . 2) The production models are spaced with a 1" spacer...fixing rock issues even more.

Even with a single spider pack on Steve's prototypes you have a VERY hard time rocking the coil if you put 10 pounds of force on ONE side of the cone...

There are measures in place to take care of everything that you think is wrong . That coil is not going to rock and wear out..we'd be stupid to produce something like that.

The sub had a 1.5" long stud hanging out the back end of it for people to support it in flat walls..if they don't use it...they don't have a warranty if they crack the basket. The sub is not for everybody..we don't care that it is almost 17" deep...

[Ricci 0]

You couldn't be any more incorrect about everything you just assumed .

The BL curve is very very very parabolic..and yes it does have a bl^2/re that high..it sounds fantastic because you don't have coil(s) leaving the magnetic gap in areas of high concentration.....

That's why I asked.

You addressed the possible rocking issue and also the comments about the stud and depth addressed the depth and frame strength question. You also sort of hinted that the gap is not larger than normal and also not tiny. The spider set-up is more or less fairly standard, but up to the task.

You didn't answer the questions I really cared about. About the coil arrangement, etc.. You know the meaty stuff..(I figured you wouldn't anyway. I tried. )

A nice flat BL curve is good...Surely you didn't mean that this particular drive has bl^2/re over 2000? That's got to be some theoretical or prototype deal you guys are working on. What is the BL rating and RE on this? Even 35tm with an RE of 2ohms would be kinda nuts.

Edited February 11, 2010 by Ricci

[NDMstang65 403]

Buy one and cut it apart and try to figure out how it works

I'm not one to educate the masses on how to copy something we build lol.

[Duran 387]

Aww Nick I was counting on making one

[NDMstang65 403]

Many will try...most will fail.

[Mac N Cheese 90]

Many will try...most will fail.

shucks

[Duran 387]

Cause I'm not the amazing Scott Atwell I won't even try lol

[stealth 113]

so..................................

[Duran 387]

so..................................

Thank you, that was very informative.

[stealth 113]

so..................................

Thank you, that was very informative.

no problem buddy. but if you didnt understand i was referring to updates.

[SpeakerBoy 64]

._.

Bump

Did the idea for 22's just get put aside for the time being?

[jcarter1885 995]

._.

Bump

Did the idea for 22's just get put aside for the time being?

after 5 years i doubt its even an option still