What subs would be best?

[Hell-Razor 0]

Alright lets first start off with I have gone through about 20 different woofers (talked about) and still have not picked one to install yet. I went from 18's to a single 15 back to 18 then to 4 10"s now it seems I am stuck once again.

I am putting all this inside of a 2002 VW Passat GL with a 120 amp alt. The trunk space is roughly 40w x 18h x 42d. Now I have enough room to fit a 18" in there but not enough room to allow adequate airflow. Well that's fine so lets downgrade to a 15" or 12" or 10". First I was talking with Shizzz and we decided on 4 10" sd2.5's. Would allow for more cone area than a single 18 and therefor move more air. But here is the problem, I would also like to try to compete in some events. I was also told by Shizzz to stay away from evens with 4 10's cause they wouldn't work. So here I am once again, back to the drawing boards. Before he left yesterday he said that he would think about 2 12's for me and I have not heard back form him. I know he is a busy guy and that's fine I just would like some other inputs here as well because maybe there's something him or I missed that may be brought up (others also liked the idea of re posting just on sub suggestions).

Well here is my .02 on all of this. I don't think I should go over 3k watts because of my stock alt and budget. I can downgrade my deck unit to allow for maybe 200$ tops towards something else. The brand does not bother me. I have looked at several different brands and right now I don't know. All of the online dealers seem to know their stuff and seem to be the best at what they do.

So down to the main question -- for daily driving / comps and running about 3k watts (I could also do 2500 to save money), what sub(s) would you pick and why?

Edited September 15, 2009 by Hell-Razor

[Godsmack 360]

First off you wanna push 3kw? GET AN ALT!!!!!

You need the juice to make the power. No sense in building a mansion on shitty swamp land bro.

J

[Burbarry 0]

I have 2 12" sdc2.512's in my trunk on 1 US AMPS XT4000D putting out 1300 watts before rise. I do between a 146.1 and 146.6 on the TL mic. box is 4.3 cuft tuned to 33 HZ. I am going to be building a 4th order box soon and hope to get a 148+ out of it. With a bigger box and tuned higher you could get more out of these subs with that much power. But I would do the BIG 3, and put a big Battery up front and one in back for that amount of power. Now if you are running daily I would upgrade your alternator, other wise you will run into problems down the road.

[Aaron Clinton 2,372]

For 2500+ watts for a pair of 12's, I would vote for something along the lines of the Fi BL's or Mach5Audio SPL-12's.

[atamanch 1]

My 2 cents:

I had a 2002 Passat and I'm telling you right now that my Alpine MRP-M1000 (1000 watts @ 2 ohms) was killing the voltage in that car. I had 1/0 gauge wire from the front and only battery all the way to the amp and I was seeing voltages of 11.7 after a good night. I guarantee you that you will want an upgraded alt, in fact I have one sitting under my bed right now, never installed. Its 200 amps made by Excessive Amperage, PM me if you are interested.

The good news is your car has a perfectly box-shaped trunk and you can fit a pretty big box in there. For competitions, I'd suggest running a single monster woofer but I'm not really into comps take that with a grain of salt.

Good luck.

[Hell-Razor 0]

My 2 cents:

I had a 2002 Passat and I'm telling you right now that my Alpine MRP-M1000 (1000 watts @ 2 ohms) was killing the voltage in that car. I had 1/0 gauge wire from the front and only battery all the way to the amp and I was seeing voltages of 11.7 after a good night. I guarantee you that you will want an upgraded alt, in fact I have one sitting under my bed right now, never installed. Its 200 amps made by Excessive Amperage, PM me if you are interested.

The good news is your car has a perfectly box-shaped trunk and you can fit a pretty big box in there. For competitions, I'd suggest running a single monster woofer but I'm not really into comps take that with a grain of salt.

Good luck.

I sent you a pm. I am also putting a DC3100 battery in the trunk

[Hell-Razor 0]

Anybody know why I was told to stay away from 4 10"s? Why would it not be good for a comp?

[Hell-Razor 0]

bump

[Aaron Clinton 2,372]

Could be thinking in terms of dbDrag as Street C you can run 4 12" drivers, so with 4 10" drivers you are going to be at a disadvantage right from the get go.

[///M5 2,833]

What sort of comp, what class, is your sole goal to win, what do you mean by daily....

You really are good at asking what product and not so good at stating why we would lean towards anything for you. Size ain't shit, implementation and utilization is.

[Hell-Razor 0]

What sort of comp, what class, is your sole goal to win, what do you mean by daily....

Well, I would like to do a bassrace and the sky is the limit for what class. I wouldn't think I would go above 140dB with two 12's (but I don't know if I could on my budget. Again there is no limit on how loud). It looks like 2 12's will give me the most cone area so I am leaning in that direction. I have heard a lot of good things about the BL's with the amount of power I have available. I could probably save a little and go back to the AQ-2200D and still power those things well... Or maybe to the kicker 2500.1 if that will power two woofers. I was thinking of trying out two 12" BTL's but I don't think I have the power for them at the moment. If I could get two 12" BTLs with my budget and the power I can give, sold. I DO plan on upgrading my alt eventually and getting a bigger amp. Maybe sometime this winter.

And daily is something that I can listen to everyday. Something that wont just "burp" out noise. The best example I can give is the SPL vs Daily option on the subs from Fi. I would like something that will sound good playing music (seeing as I would like to do comps via playing music / bass cds and not tones).

Edited September 16, 2009 by Hell-Razor

[holley2346 6]

I would underpower a BTL any day before I'd give a BL 1500 watts. In my application, SUV, BTL has a great audible advantage over the BL.

[Hell-Razor 0]

Alright. Would you (for example) strap a 2200D, upgrade the alt, then strap another 2200D?

[shizzzon 461]

I would underpower a BTL any day before I'd give a BL 1500 watts. In my application, SUV, BTL has a great audible advantage over the BL.

I don't know if you compete seriously or not but that advice should only be saved for the noobish daily driver and not for a competitor if that's hell-razor's goal.

Let me answer some questions here-

The reason why 4 10s was thrown out the window is because hell-razor stated he wanted to compete.

4 10s has MORE cone area than 2 12s, BUT the 4 10 build would have too small of a port for comp use.

2 12s, depending on the 12s, are very close to the same "radiating area" as 4 10s. AQ's HDC3s have an SD of over 550 i believe whereas most other 12s are under 500.

Using 2 12s can increase your port area by 150% and the slight loss of cone area would actually give you an increase in pressure when it came to the monsterous port area available.

And the quoted statement above-

In competition, you want to feed the most power you can possibly feed your subs because these comps, like MECA, restrict you based on fusing. Fuses can take more than rated for quick bursts so it's wise to have a large power bank for your subs, even for those who aren't rich...

Phi, a member here, has 2 10" SSDs that is being ran off of a 3,000w amp. It's actually the Audiopipe 3kw amp. I personally tested that amp doing over 1,400w at 6.2ohms on his 2 10" SSDs and they never get hot.

So to say it may not be wise to run 1500w on a BL is funny since Hell-Razor's goal is both daily and comp.

If he were to choose the BLs, i would suggest running 2kw per BL minimum, 3.5kw recommended for comp.

AQ HDC3s - ~2.5kw minimum, 5-6kw recommended.

These power recommmendations are all for comp use.

The minimum ratings can also be used for daily use as long as your amps are clip free.

I'm thinkin about running my DC Level 4s at 3kw per sub daily soon. I'm still tryin to work out the finances on that.

[Hell-Razor 0]

Alright so I need more power...

[shizzzon 461]

that is for real competition.

You want to choose a division you want to run in and try to max out your potential for that division so you have the best advantage.

[Hell-Razor 0]

Well I don't know whats possible on my budget for...like the 129.9 division? 119.9 division? 139.9?

I know thumper hit like 152. something with 2 10's (I think) but he was throwing MASSIVE amounts of power at them. I am pretty sure I will stick with 12's at this point to maximize the trunk space / cone area. Now its to what subs are the best choice. I know competitions around here thrive in the summer time so I have a while to pick what I want. Maybe the BTL or BL is the best option. Buy two now, under power them a little for just listening pleasure now. Also with that money saved on not getting another amp, upgrade the alt. Then when my money and the end of winter swings around strap another amp in there and ka bam comp system....

[shizzzon 461]

for someone who hasn't competed yet, don't try to reach a competitor's goal from the start.

Score your first ever then try and approve from there.

[DAM 1]

1 15 u can put a smile on folks they see 1 15

[shizzzon 461]

true but going from 2 to 1... isn't really wise for a daily driver unless you just don't have room to run 2 15s.

I used to run a single AQ 15 back in 04 in 8 cubes tuned to 29hz.. WAY off the recommended chart... i did a 144.3 on an AC mic at 31hz.. that was a shocker and i knew nothing about competing back then. the onyl thing i knew is that 31hz was my peak and i had 120sqin of port in a trunk of a crown vic!

[///M5 2,833]

I would underpower a BTL any day before I'd give a BL 1500 watts. In my application, SUV, BTL has a great audible advantage over the BL.

I don't know if you compete seriously or not but that advice should only be saved for the noobish daily driver and not for a competitor if that's hell-razor's goal.

Are you really serious? That is one of the least educated statements I have read here. The BTL with the same power will ALWAYS be Fi's loudest sub. ALWAYS.

[Hell-Razor 0]

alright well... Lets do 2 12's then. How about BTL's like my first 12's choice and get them powered up. For the first few months I will have them underpowered but towards the end of the year I will be able to strap another amp on there. Oh and by the way, I am getting a 200 amp alt sometime soon. Im thinknig of ordering a 2200D because a 12 BTL should be able to hold 2.2kw a peice. I think if I went for a SAZ-3500 I would a)out to my alt by the time I strap in a second one and b) go a little over my budget. But I guess with a battery bank I may be able to strap two 3500's but thats down the road... Or maybe even sell the 3500 and get a 4500....

But I am getting ahead of myself here. The BTL requires more power at the start but can handle more power than the BL overall (I think at least). If I am trying to get the best I can (and I am) and want to upgrade more later (I do), wouldnt the 12" BTL be my best bet?

NOTE: I am only talking about the BL and BTL because I have read a LOT on them and dont know much about the other options outside of Fi.

[shizzzon 461]

I would underpower a BTL any day before I'd give a BL 1500 watts. In my application, SUV, BTL has a great audible advantage over the BL.

I don't know if you compete seriously or not but that advice should only be saved for the noobish daily driver and not for a competitor if that's hell-razor's goal.

Are you really serious? That is one of the least educated statements I have read here. The BTL with the same power will ALWAYS be Fi's loudest sub. ALWAYS.

Really? Then explain to me how when ROE did the great 12" comparison that the Fi Q, which was given half the power the BTL was given, produced MORE pressure between 35-50hz in the same box and tuning..

And i know the BL is geared to be louder than the Q so using the BL would exaggerate this even more.

[Hell-Razor 0]

Really? Then explain to me how when ROE did the great 12" comparison that the Fi Q, which was given half the power the BTL was given, produced MORE pressure between 35-50hz in the same box and tuning..

And i know the BL is geared to be louder than the Q so using the BL would exaggerate this even more.

/me shrugs.

[Hell-Razor 0]

Shizzz -- I am getting a new alt as well. Some guy on these forums is hooking me up with a 200 amper. Seeing as now I can handle more power, would you change your original idea of 4 10's or 2 12's?