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EFFENDI

The 10 Biggest Lies in Audio

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Haven't dug up anything yet. I just got through watching "Sin City". (It gets my stamp of approval.)

I'll send RC a PM and ask him about it. No better than from the horse's mouth as they say.

Mrray13, I know you aren't on any paticular side here, and I hate to crap up my own thread.....but let me just say I have always appreciated your maturity.

The things I do so teach someone a lesson..... :unsure:

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Haven't dug up anything yet. I just got through watching "Sin City".  (It gets my stamp of approval.)

I'll send RC a PM and ask him about it. No better than from the horse's mouth as they say.

Mrray13, I know you aren't on any side here, and I hate to crap up my own thread.....but i have to say I have always appreciated your maturity.

The things I do so teach someone a lesson.....

kewl, let us know what RC says..

and someone called me mature?? thems fightin words!!

but for real, both urself and ryan are mature adults, and i'd like to see u two resolve ur conversation without the ca.com sidetaking, bandwagon jumping, i gotta get into this arguement posts.

me mature..lol..i'm showing this thread to the wife!

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee :slayer:

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I'm done with this. Clearly niether one of us understands each other, so I'll just drop it here.

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I understand you just fine. I'm not condemning you, I'm trying to help you, but you take it however you want. I can't change how you "feel", and I'm not trying to. All I'm trying to do here is to educate you, so that you might avoid something like this down the road. It's that simple, and if you dont understand that, I pray that next time around, you do. There is nothing to "drop" here, either you walk away taking with you some knowledge, or you walk away a coward. It is your choice, and I see that you have clearly made your decision.

I apologize to everyone else, next time I'll handle it via private messages.

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I have nothing to take from this. Other than you are clearly trying to make me look foolish which you;ve not succeeded in. That simple. You have proven no points nor shown anywhere where I have made a mistake for me to correct myself on, so I do not know why you continue to try and make me feel like I should "stand up and be a man."

My point in a nutshell is no matter what science says, your ear will be the ultimate judge. If you don't like how it sounds, you are going to change it. I've said that many times and that's what I will stick to. Now what out of that is incorrect? Thank You.

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I have nothing to take from this.  Other than you are clearly trying to make me look foolish which you;ve not succeeded in.  That simple.  You have proven no points nor shown anywhere where I have made a mistake for me to correct myself on, so I do not know why you continue to try and make me feel like I should "stand up and be a man."

My point in a nutshell is no matter what science says, your ear will be the ultimate judge.  If you don't like how it sounds, you are going to change it.  I've said that many times and that's what I will stick to.  Now what out of that is incorrect?  Thank You.

I thought you were done? Again, you continue balabbering your OPINION. I thought I made it clear when I said that you are wrong to assume that EVERYONE judges sound quality by their ears, and it is WRONG of you to say that the ear is the "ultimate" judge. Science and technology would be worthless if we all depended upon our senses to give us the truth about everything.

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Effendi: Short post, simple statements. Give us proof of your "Scientific facts" or I'll send my science team after you.

The article I posted gives scientific proof of everything it states as myth. Did you even read it? I didn't write this article.

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I have nothing to take from this.  Other than you are clearly trying to make me look foolish which you;ve not succeeded in.  That simple.  You have proven no points nor shown anywhere where I have made a mistake for me to correct myself on, so I do not know why you continue to try and make me feel like I should "stand up and be a man."

My point in a nutshell is no matter what science says, your ear will be the ultimate judge.  If you don't like how it sounds, you are going to change it.  I've said that many times and that's what I will stick to.  Now what out of that is incorrect?  Thank You.

I thought you were done? Again, you continue balabbering your OPINION. I thought I made it clear when I said that you are wrong to assume that EVERYONE judges sound quality by their ears, and it is WRONG of you to say that the ear is the "ultimate" judge. Science and technology would be worthless if we all depended upon our senses to give us the truth about everything.

See here, you clearly show your error, not mine. It is an OPINION. How can it be wrong? It can't. If that's how I feel, you cannot tell me I am wrong. And the ear is the ultimate judge. Take an RTA, multimeter, whatever tools you want to use and tune your system with those scientific measuring devices. Everything comes out perfect according to the instruments, yet when you sit in the vehicle, it is NOT perfect and you feel the need to change something. Now tell me that the science is not flawed and your ear(s) do not bear burden on the outcome.

Take two identical amps, set up the same way. Everything is equal. I listen to both and determine a difference in sound between the two. It is believed to be impossible, yet I tell a difference. How can one tell me I do not? Science may be able to tell you WHY I notice a diffence, but it cannot tell you that I CAN or CANNOT. Prove otherwise.

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Yup.

And since this is a futile argumenet (let's face it, tubes vs. solid state is like Ford vs. Chevy anyway), I'm not going to get into it ironically :D

But once my 2A3 amp is finished, my offer of a listening test still stands to anyone in the VA/NC area :rockwoot:

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Yup.

And since this is a futile argumenet (let's face it, tubes vs. solid state is like Ford vs. Chevy anyway), I'm not going to get into it ironically :D

But once my 2A3 amp is finished, my offer of an ABX test still stands to anyone in the VA/NC area ;)

It's not a Tube vs. SS argument. Let's not get on that subject. I do love the Butlers though, and someday, when money is good, I'll step over to your side of the hobby.

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The article I posted gives scientific proof of everything it states as myth. Did you even read it? I didn't write this article.

Ok, I'm re-reading it.

Lie 1: high quality cables pwn low quality cables

"...It is a lie that has been exposed, shamed, and refuted over and over again by every genuine authority under the sun..."

If there are so many documented instances of these tests, you are logically proving you're full of chit by not linking to at least ONE.

Lie 2: Vaccuum tubes sound good

Again, he says "tube sound" is a figment of an audiophiles imagination or simply intentionally added noise. Again, the BS meter goes off because I doubt this guy ever actually listened to a tube amplifier, else he'd have something more specific about the difference in sound.

Lie 3: Analog Sound > digital sound

It is impossible for audible sound to BE digital. A watt is a measurement of analog power, so if digital music existed, there'd be no need for power amplifiers. You'd have a mathematical processor that added "1" a half million times over to the digital source to amplify it, with a cost of less than 1 constant amp at 12 volts. He *is* right in saying the best available storage mediums are digital, however that's debatable.

Lie 4: Double Blind Tests don't work

He mentions comparing Pioneer to a Krell amplifier. Well, both have similar THD levels. He also failed to mention who did these double blind tests, where they were done, and how they were done. In fact, you're just relying on his word that they *were* done. Period. Take a Hifonics BXD amp that can reach 10% THD at full output, and compare it to a Power Acoustik that has less than 2% THD at full output. You think blindfolded people can hear an 8% difference in THD? Well, you can hear a 4%...

Lie 5: Negative feedback = bad

Inherently, you shouldn't have negative feedback, because if you do there is a problem in your install. Like CHEAP CABLES INDUCTING CURRENT FROM A NEARBY GROUND (See lie 1). Dispite being countered by today's technology, it would still be there. He said himself that no feedback technology was the rage, so it's obvious that no feedback is NOT bad.

Lie 6: Burn in required

No argument against this. Only mechanical equipment benefits from this.

Lie 7: Biwiring is cool

I don't even understand where he's going at with this. Unless you're talking about biamping components and using one amp to power the mids, and one for the tweets. In that case it would be necessary to bi-wire the crossover unless both amps were strappable.

Lie 8: Power conditioning is necessary

I can tell you from experience with DC power, your amplifiers know it when they don't get clean DC current. While he's right saying you don't need an *external* method of conditioning power, unclean power, like from a poor ground, will lead almost unmistakably to alternator whine, which CAN be taken care of with external power conditioning. It's not a lie, just not a necessity.

Lie 9: You can corrupt the binary data on CDs.

Ok, take your fav CD, look at it's shiny underside. Now flip it over to the cover. With a knife, dig a neat little scratch about 1 inch long anywhere you like. Now listen to the CD again. If it's not corruption, what is it?

Lie 10: People have keen hearing and they know it

He's right. Keen hearing is simply knowing what to look for.

Point made.

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He *is* right in saying the best available storage mediums are digital, however that's debatable.

Hell yes it is - ever done an ABX test for vinyl vs. CD? There is a sound difference :)

I do agree with the points on burn-in, however. It's plain silly to say that copper wire strands need to be "burned in".

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Im shure there are people out there that would argue that

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Im shure there are people out there that would argue that

What, about vinyl? Or about burning in cables?

The very notion that copper wire needs to be "burned in" to change its sonic character is silly. There are no mechanical parts that move, no movement whatsoever actually...so I'm confused as to what actually "burns in" :D

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The copper...lol

Because...the electrons...rearrange the copper atoms...aaaaaahhh

*head explodes*

What's funny is I've seen people selling "burn in adapters" for you to plug in your $200 power cables, so they burn in faster. :idiot:

But if Nordost says it, it must be true...;)

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You never see in the back so why even care ?

If you don't have a trunk, you can see in the back ;)

At least carpet them...

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The copper...lol

Because...the electrons...rearrange the copper atoms...aaaaaahhh

*head explodes*

What's funny is I've seen people selling "burn in adapters" for you to plug in your $200 power cables, so they burn in faster. :idiot:

But if Nordost says it, it must be true...;)

oh crap !

where can i get one ?

Will my monster cables sound better ?

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Yup :D

And your lamp will be brighter ;)

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