Component Set

[JammerJ 7]

But your still typing to me and name calling, it shows young lady that your emotions got touched in some way (ahh poor baby it's gonna be ok). Good luck on finding a loud component set with a cheap budget.

Wait, what did you do, OH you just name called, it's hilarious that you think your such a grown up, but then you resort to acting like a 13yr. old girl whos having her first episode of pms. Can you please stop complaining and trying to insult people, because you're only making yourself look bad.

[///M5 2,833]

Jammer, you need to chill. One of the requirements of the board is to take recommendations, whether you use them or not is up to you. I will say that I don't think your thread has gone very well (which is only the fault of the person who creates it) but that is easily fixed.

"Not loud enough" isn't specific at all. I know for sure you are lacking midbass, but I also know for sure there is no way in hell you'll get enough midbass with any set of $200 speakers. So your effed there. It is also amusing to me that you are looking at downgrading your front comp set and expect it to be louder. Just swapping one set of components for another that are in the same price range isn't going to do anything to fix your solution...but you are too busy pissing on people in your own thread to actually help funnel the help in the right direction.

So everyone in here. Take a step back, re-focus the conversation on helping this Jammer. Although this first means he needs to outline his install, listening preferences, dislike of his current setup and other things listed in the noob posting guildelines (they are in my sig).

[Lucky 76 5]

Jammer, you need to chill. One of the requirements of the board is to take recommendations, whether you use them or not is up to you. I will say that I don't think your thread has gone very well (which is only the fault of the person who creates it) but that is easily fixed.

"Not loud enough" isn't specific at all. I know for sure you are lacking midbass, but I also know for sure there is no way in hell you'll get enough midbass with any set of $200 speakers. So your effed there. It is also amusing to me that you are looking at downgrading your front comp set and expect it to be louder. Just swapping one set of components for another that are in the same price range isn't going to do anything to fix your solution...but you are too busy pissing on people in your own thread to actually help funnel the help in the right direction.

So everyone in here. Take a step back, re-focus the conversation on helping this Jammer. Although this first means he needs to outline his install, listening preferences, dislike of his current setup and other things listed in the noob posting guildelines (they are in my sig).

Well put. Lets get on with this before nobody wants to post recommendations n e more lol. Josh stop the arguing before you get banned. I got like 20 emails this morning because of this thread lol.

[JammerJ 7]

Jammer, you need to chill. One of the requirements of the board is to take recommendations, whether you use them or not is up to you. I will say that I don't think your thread has gone very well (which is only the fault of the person who creates it) but that is easily fixed.

"Not loud enough" isn't specific at all. I know for sure you are lacking midbass, but I also know for sure there is no way in hell you'll get enough midbass with any set of $200 speakers. So your effed there. It is also amusing to me that you are looking at downgrading your front comp set and expect it to be louder. Just swapping one set of components for another that are in the same price range isn't going to do anything to fix your solution...but you are too busy pissing on people in your own thread to actually help funnel the help in the right direction.

So everyone in here. Take a step back, re-focus the conversation on helping this Jammer. Although this first means he needs to outline his install, listening preferences, dislike of his current setup and other things listed in the noob posting guildelines (they are in my sig).

OK I listen to rap, hip hop, some rock every now and then. My first set of speakers were not loud enough. My budget is $150-250. I am sticking to passive because i cant afford another amp unless someone wants to give me one for free...I have a SAX125.2, and it's going into a 2003 Jeep GCL. The set i originally posted handled more power than the ones i currently have so i figured they would be louder, not a downgrade.

[Lucky 76 5]

Jammer, you need to chill. One of the requirements of the board is to take recommendations, whether you use them or not is up to you. I will say that I don't think your thread has gone very well (which is only the fault of the person who creates it) but that is easily fixed.

"Not loud enough" isn't specific at all. I know for sure you are lacking midbass, but I also know for sure there is no way in hell you'll get enough midbass with any set of $200 speakers. So your effed there. It is also amusing to me that you are looking at downgrading your front comp set and expect it to be louder. Just swapping one set of components for another that are in the same price range isn't going to do anything to fix your solution...but you are too busy pissing on people in your own thread to actually help funnel the help in the right direction.

So everyone in here. Take a step back, re-focus the conversation on helping this Jammer. Although this first means he needs to outline his install, listening preferences, dislike of his current setup and other things listed in the noob posting guildelines (they are in my sig).

OK I listen to rap, hip hop, some rock every now and then. My first set of speakers were not loud enough. My budget is $150-250. I am sticking to passive because i cant afford another amp unless someone wants to give me one for free...I have a SAX125.2, and it's going into a 2003 Jeep GCL. The set i originally posted handled more power than the ones i currently have so i figured they would be louder, not a downgrade.

Speaker sensitivity is what you need to look at more than power handling. I am not going to type why just call me if you want to know.

[Impious 1,476]

Unfortunately speaker sensitivity ultimately isn't going to be very helpful either. That is a specification rated at 1w of input, so it does not tell you which will ultimately be louder playing at higher power levels as there are many other factors at play. Frequency response, power compression, installation location and as a result off-axis performance, etc will all also shape how "loud" a given component set is in actual application.

To Jammer: What exactly isn't "loud" enough for you? Do you feel it lacks any particular frequency region, or just not loud enough in general?

I would honestly be a little surprised if you weren't able to get what you were looking for out of your current setup, possibly with some readjustments, as 125wpc should be sufficient to drive about any set of speakers past the point of listen-ability output wise.

If it hasn't already been stated (as I admittedly didn't read the past 4 pages), can you describe your current installation as far as where the speakers are located, how they are installed, and the various settings thoughout the system?

[Lucky 76 5]

Unfortunately speaker sensitivity ultimately isn't going to be very helpful either. That is a specification rated at 1w of input, so it does not tell you which will ultimately be louder playing at higher power levels as there are many other factors at play. Frequency response, power compression, installation location and as a result off-axis performance, etc will all also shape how "loud" a given component set is in actual application.

To Jammer: What exactly isn't "loud" enough for you? Do you feel it lacks any particular frequency region, or just not loud enough in general?

I would honestly be a little surprised if you weren't able to get what you were looking for out of your current setup, possibly with some readjustments, as 125wpc should be sufficient to drive about any set of speakers past the point of listen-ability output wise.

If it hasn't already been stated (as I admittedly didn't read the past 4 pages), can you describe your current installation as far as where the speakers are located, how they are installed, and the various settings thoughout the system?

I can give some background information as well as I see josh on a normal basis.

-Mids are mounted in the doors and tweeters are mounted in dash (stock spot) positioned upward

I was thinking about this the other day. We mistakenabley tuned the amplifier with the loudness on (it was factory preset that way from kenwood). We used a dmm (didnt have the oscope handy) but we tuned it at a volume of 27/40 because that is where the loudness clipped at when we tested it with the oscope. Could this cause the speakers to not be as loud as expected due to preout voltage from the h/u? The output voltage from the amp still equated to around 100 watts rms @ 4 ohm.

[Impious 1,476]

I can give some background information as well as I see josh on a normal basis.

-Mids are mounted in the doors and tweeters are mounted in dash (stock spot) positioned upward

How are the mids mounted? Cheap plastic OEM adaptor or a solid MDF baffle? Is the door well sealed and deadened or completely stock? Is there a level setting on the crossover for the tweeter, and if so where is it set?

I was thinking about this the other day. We mistakenabley tuned the amplifier with the loudness on (it was factory preset that way from kenwood). We used a dmm (didnt have the oscope handy) but we tuned it at a volume of 27/40 because that is where the loudness clipped at when we tested it with the oscope. Could this cause the speakers to not be as loud as expected due to preout voltage from the h/u? The output voltage from the amp still equated to around 100 watts rms @ 4 ohm.

Yes, that quite possibly would affect the gain setting as the loudness would cause the preamp outputs to output higher voltage and probably clip sooner than when it is set to off. Also I would skip the DMM for setting the gain and do it by ear, if you wanted you could use the DMM after it was set to where you wanted just to help verify it wasn't completely out of whack. I would also try adjusting the highpass setting for the component set, a slightly higher crossover frequency might allow the mids to get a little louder without reaching their excursion limits as soon.

[JammerJ 7]

I can give some background information as well as I see josh on a normal basis.

-Mids are mounted in the doors and tweeters are mounted in dash (stock spot) positioned upward

How are the mids mounted? Cheap plastic OEM adaptor or a solid MDF baffle? Is the door well sealed and deadened or completely stock? Is there a level setting on the crossover for the tweeter, and if so where is it set?

I was thinking about this the other day. We mistakenabley tuned the amplifier with the loudness on (it was factory preset that way from kenwood). We used a dmm (didnt have the oscope handy) but we tuned it at a volume of 27/40 because that is where the loudness clipped at when we tested it with the oscope. Could this cause the speakers to not be as loud as expected due to preout voltage from the h/u? The output voltage from the amp still equated to around 100 watts rms @ 4 ohm.

Yes, that quite possibly would affect the gain setting as the loudness would cause the preamp outputs to output higher voltage and probably clip sooner than when it is set to off. Also I would skip the DMM for setting the gain and do it by ear, if you wanted you could use the DMM after it was set to where you wanted just to help verify it wasn't completely out of whack. I would also try adjusting the highpass setting for the component set, a slightly higher crossover frequency might allow the mids to get a little louder without reaching their excursion limits as soon.

Its a solid mdf baffle but there is only a thin layer of stock deadening on the doors. I remember we tried turning up the amp and the speakers immediately started making popping noises. I'm figuring that since the set was only $100, you get what you pay for and they're just not great quality. But I suppose it could be an issue of tuning.

[Impious 1,476]

That popping was likely the mid reaching their excursion limit. If so, then increasing the highpass crossover as I suggested could help alleviate part of that issue. Do you know where the highpass is set now?

Also make sure you don't have any EQ adjustments in the headunit (if it has any) turned up in level.

Sound deadening & sealing the door would help increase their performance also. I would personally try intelligent application of sound deadening and sealing up any holes in the door to fully isolate the frontwave from the backwave prior to purchasing new speakers. For sound deadening, I would highly recommending www.sounddeadenershowdown.com If you have any questions about how many tiles to purchase or the best application/use of the product to obtain full performance from the sound deadening for your money, shoot Don an email and I'm sure he would gladly assist you.

[Lucky 76 5]

That popping was likely the mid reaching their excursion limit. If so, then increasing the highpass crossover as I suggested could help alleviate part of that issue. Do you know where the highpass is set now?

Also make sure you don't have any EQ adjustments in the headunit (if it has any) turned up in level.

Sound deadening & sealing the door would help increase their performance also. I would personally try intelligent application of sound deadening and sealing up any holes in the door to fully isolate the frontwave from the backwave prior to purchasing new speakers. For sound deadening, I would highly recommending www.sounddeadenershowdown.com If you have any questions about how many tiles to purchase or the best application/use of the product to obtain full performance from the sound deadening for your money, shoot Don an email and I'm sure he would gladly assist you.

The high pass is already set to 80hZ. The eq was set to flat when this was happening. We later set the gains higher as far as the upper end of the spectrum was concerned and turned the midbass down a little to tone down the "popping".

Josh said that the sound cuts out every once in a while. I thought this might be the source of the problem but so far trouble shooting has not gotten us far.

[jcarter1885 994]

I would turn the highpass up some, just because some speakers say there midbass doesnt mean they can handle that frequencies that low with the power they are getting. I had tweeters that did that popping noise before and eventually it messed the tweeters up, I was playing them on frequencies lower than what they were designed for (yeah the popping did go in and out depending on the song and listening level).

[Lucky 76 5]

I would turn the highpass up some, just because some speakers say there midbass doesnt mean they can handle that frequencies that low with the power they are getting. I had tweeters that did that popping noise before and eventually it messed the tweeters up, I was playing them on frequencies lower than what they were designed for (yeah the popping did go in and out depending on the song and listening level).

What a crap set of speakers. Can't even play freaking 80hZ wtf. We will adjust the hp and see what it sounds like. I am doubting the premiers will be able to play up to 100 or so hz without getting muddy but we'll give it a go.

[Impious 1,476]

That popping was likely the mid reaching their excursion limit. If so, then increasing the highpass crossover as I suggested could help alleviate part of that issue. Do you know where the highpass is set now?

Also make sure you don't have any EQ adjustments in the headunit (if it has any) turned up in level.

Sound deadening & sealing the door would help increase their performance also. I would personally try intelligent application of sound deadening and sealing up any holes in the door to fully isolate the frontwave from the backwave prior to purchasing new speakers. For sound deadening, I would highly recommending www.sounddeadenershowdown.com If you have any questions about how many tiles to purchase or the best application/use of the product to obtain full performance from the sound deadening for your money, shoot Don an email and I'm sure he would gladly assist you.

The high pass is already set to 80hZ. The eq was set to flat when this was happening. We later set the gains higher as far as the upper end of the spectrum was concerned and turned the midbass down a little to tone down the "popping".

Josh said that the sound cuts out every once in a while. I thought this might be the source of the problem but so far trouble shooting has not gotten us far.

Keep in mind frequency is only half of the crossover. Slope also needs taken into consideration. If it is a shallower slope (i.e. 12db/oct as the Sundown has) then the frequency may need set higher to keep the speakers excursion under control while playing at the higher output levels that the OP is wanting.

And again, sound deadening and better isolation of the frontwave & backwave (i.e. sealing the door) may also be helpful.

[///M5 2,833]

I would turn the highpass up some, just because some speakers say there midbass doesnt mean they can handle that frequencies that low with the power they are getting. I had tweeters that did that popping noise before and eventually it messed the tweeters up, I was playing them on frequencies lower than what they were designed for (yeah the popping did go in and out depending on the song and listening level).

What a crap set of speakers. Can't even play freaking 80hZ wtf. We will adjust the hp and see what it sounds like. I am doubting the premiers will be able to play up to 100 or so hz without getting muddy but we'll give it a go.

And on top of that, perhaps saying what a crap install you are making it distort even with an 80Hz crossover is in order. Like Impious I am skeptical that ANYTHING in the install is optimized to be able to deal with what the OP wants and just replacing components will net the same result. Turn the HP up until it doesn't "pop" and see where that is and report back.

Also double check all the settings to make sure no bass boost, eq gain or anything else is happening at frequencies below 200Hz. Also, find out what slope the HP is and report that back as well.

[millertime 12]

Edited December 9, 2009 by millertime

[///M5 2,833]

Amusingly you deleted your recommendations after reading my post....

[Lucky 76 5]

Amusingly you deleted your recommendations after reading my post....

bahahahahha

I got it though - recommendations = ppi and id

[///M5 2,833]

Doubtful that they will be "louder" than what is already in

[millertime 12]

Amusingly you deleted your recommendations after reading my post....

ya i read almost all of it.....missed your post....... then after re-reading it decided you are more then likely right .... mite change the sound alittle, but not get super lounder... so no sense getting a pissing match going when you are right !

[JammerJ 7]

So basically these speakers, http://www.woofersetc.com/p2571/MM6--Polk-Audio-65"-Momo-Competition-Component-Set.htm wouldn't be any louder that these, http://www.woofersetc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=5207 which are the ones i have in now?

[Impious 1,476]

Have you done anything M5 or myself have previously suggested in this thread?

If not, then there's no point in continuing to try to assist you.

If yes, please report back with what you have done and the results.

[jcarter1885 994]

So basically these speakers, http://www.woofersetc.com/p2571/MM6--Polk-Audio-65"-Momo-Competition-Component-Set.htm wouldn't be any louder that these, http://www.woofersetc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=5207 which are the ones i have in now?

Nope not close, the name of the game is installing them in the right environment which is the advise the best on here have given you. The next step would be to see if they got better or you still want more. If you still want more then you may have to up your budget and look at some better equipment.

[Lucky 76 5]

We ended up figuring out why they werent loud. It was the whole loudness button thing. We tuned everything with the loudness on by accident (it is a kenwood preset for some reason). I used the oscilloscope and with the oscilloscope the head unit clipped at a volume of 27 (with loudness on). The preout voltage is like nothing at this volume. Once we took the loudness off and turned it up past 27 ( testing it by ear because I do not have an oscope right now) the speakers were much much much louder.

We also found out that on the sundown amplifiers the order is not positive and negative like most amps but negative positive. This caused the lack of midbass and also the reason why the speaker sounded like absolute crap.

The doors still need to be deadened.

The main problem with these speakers are they cannot handle the power. It got to the point where the speaker started to smell like an electrical burn. Josh said he is going to try them out and see how he likes them and go from there.

[///M5 2,833]

The main problem with the way these speakers are installed is that we made it so they cannot handle the power. It got to the point where the speaker started to smell like an electrical burn. Josh said he is going to try them out and see how he likes them and go from there.

fixed for reality