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SQLMonte

DD + AQ = Clean loudness?

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What frequencies do you expect your sub to play?

How did you determine the 44Hz?

What is "clean" and "loudness" to you?

I think this thread is derailed, but do agree that it sounds like you wanted confirmation of what you think you should buy without stating why you want to buy what you are looking to buy. If you come at this the other way around and list your goals and budget you will get more helpful replies. Personally I read your thread a few days ago, but didn't care to respond based on your first post...I only change my mind now at seeing how derailed the thread is and perhaps how you have been misled from the get go on your choices.

Kinda hard to say because I don't know what certain frequencies are in certain songs, but I think they should be able to play the mid to upper 40's with no problems. I determined the frequency the drop off happens by playing test tones. As far as clean and loud and the definitions of them....The clean part was more me asking if the AQ puts out clean power...people are always using the term "clean power" and I was just wanting to know if the AQ qualifies as an amp that puts out clean power. Loud....what's loud is very much subjective, I get it, I guess I was just wondering if the DD 2512's would fall under the "loud" category if pushed with the AQ2200 in a properly built enclosure. I'm not looking for a meter monster or nothing like that, I just want a daily driver that has a bangin' sub stage with a clean sounding front stage.

My equipment prospects are my own choices, nobody led me to either of them...I have an AQ1200 that I am happy with, it didn't cost very much and pushed my subs nicely which is why I considered the AQ2200. As for the dd_small.gif subs, I just wanted to go with something not many others out here have.

Your problem lies in the fact that you currently have SQ subs in a box that isn't geared towards your music listening style. It may be what ID recommended, but that recommendation was either based on information you relayed to them wrong or done blindly.

I personally wouldn't buy an AQ amp. Has nothing to do with being clean and even still it is your subs, I pretty much bet you couldn't hear "dirty" even if dirty were 10% THD in your subs. Amazing how crappy ears are in hearing low frequency info. If you want a budget amp continue on the path, but I would personally either spend more on the amp or buy used. I also haven't ever heard a DD setup that I would consider adequate. Nothing to do with loud as that is no problem, but coming from the ID's you are going to be disappointed in the frequency response as what you have now will be way more musical. IMO if your fronts are truly clean it'd be a shame to dirty the whole setup that way.

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Steve uses Rockford Fosgate, and RE as well. Oh and he puts gas in his vehicles...why don't ya boycott gasoline! He eats food too, stop eating food that's supporting ***** *****!

Seriously now, how old are you?

Do you know anything about our situation other than the fact that I choose not to do business with companies he has close ties with? But yet you're forming an opinion on it and using retarded metaphors to further prove how immature YOU are!

Your problem lies in the fact that you currently have SQ subs in a box that isn't geared towards your music listening style. It may be what ID recommended, but that recommendation was either based on information you relayed to them wrong or done blindly.

I personally wouldn't buy an AQ amp. Has nothing to do with being clean and even still it is your subs, I pretty much bet you couldn't hear "dirty" even if dirty were 10% THD in your subs. Amazing how crappy ears are in hearing low frequency info. If you want a budget amp continue on the path, but I would personally either spend more on the amp or buy used. I also haven't ever heard a DD setup that I would consider adequate. Nothing to do with loud as that is no problem, but coming from the ID's you are going to be disappointed in the frequency response as what you have now will be way more musical. IMO if your fronts are truly clean it'd be a shame to dirty the whole setup that way.

Great info! So based on what you know about my music listening style and my budget, do you have any suggestions that you think would be better suited for me than a DD 2512?

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Not sure. You haven't given enough information...and if so it is hidden in an abstract way in a non-linear thread. IMO you should start over, ask that question in a way that follows the thread posting guidelines. (listed in my sig)

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Exactly what high bass frequencies are you lacking?

I don't understand how you can say the current two 12s ported box is too big, yet plan on buying another two 12s in ported boxes.

If you know you aren't getting full power out of the amp, then you aren't sending the subs almost twice their RMS.

You cannot run 2200 watts RMS on a 105 amp stock alternator.

It falls off big time at around 44Hz and only gets worse from there. My subs suggested ported box size is anywhere from 1.5-2 cubes each. Something I didn't know at the time is that the size box you use/build should be determined, in part, by how much power you're going to run to your subs. The way I understand it is that, in general, if you're underpowering your subs then you want to go with a box on the bigger end of the scale, if you're giving them rated power then you want to go with a box that's about in the middle of the scale and if you're overpowering them then you should go with a box on the smaller end of the scale. That being said, and considering that i'm running my subs at nearly double their rated rms, I should have gone with a box that's about 1.5 cubes per sub.....my box is 2.0 cubes per, so it's too big. I'm not getting full power out of the amp because i'm running it at 2 ohms, it makes full power (as far as what it's maximum output rating is, which is 1470 watts) at 1 ohm. I can't wire these subs down to 1 ohm and even if I could it's not likely that they'd be able to handle triple their rated rms handling. So since my subs are rated at 250rms, and i'm running them at 2 ohms so the amp is putting out 870rms, that means each sub is getting 435rms....that's not almost twice their rated rms?

Do you think I could get away with running a 160a H/O alt, or should I bite the bullet and go with something in the 250a range?

I took your "full power" comment to mean at the impedance you were running the subs at. Not what the amp could do at 1 ohm. I figured perhaps you toned the gain down from the full 870 watts or whatever at 2 ohms so that it was around 500 watts. But even still, have you tested the output of the amplifier to see if you're actually getting all of its rated power at 2 ohms?

While box size does manipulate power handling, that is the last thing I would base my box size off of. I care more about the response of the box than the power it will handle.

So what size ported box are you going to make for your new 12s?

I would rather have the larger alternator, at least 200 amps. If you're already spending a bunch of money on equipment, what's another 50-100 bucks or whatever it is to go from a 160 to 200+ amp alt.

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Not sure. You haven't given enough information...and if so it is hidden in an abstract way in a non-linear thread. IMO you should start over, ask that question in a way that follows the thread posting guidelines. (listed in my sig)

You know what, that sounds like a damn good idea!

I took your "full power" comment to mean at the impedance you were running the subs at. Not what the amp could do at 1 ohm. I figured perhaps you toned the gain down from the full 870 watts or whatever at 2 ohms so that it was around 500 watts. But even still, have you tested the output of the amplifier to see if you're actually getting all of its rated power at 2 ohms?

While box size does manipulate power handling, that is the last thing I would base my box size off of. I care more about the response of the box than the power it will handle.

So what size ported box are you going to make for your new 12s?

I would rather have the larger alternator, at least 200 amps. If you're already spending a bunch of money on equipment, what's another 50-100 bucks or whatever it is to go from a 160 to 200+ amp alt.

Ah, now I see where the miscommunication came into play. No, I have not tested the amp to see what it's putting out, system has been down for the past couple months. I'll go about doing that once I get her back up and running, which will hopefully be the beginning of January.

Very good point about the box, I just wish I knew how to go about finding out the response of a given box. Does Bass Box Pro v.6 do that? Do you think I could bother you to help me figure out what some good designs are as far as response once I figure out out to map it out and do some designs in it?

I'm going to do a single 2512 for the time being, until I can upgrade my electrical to sufficiently run 2400rms, so I was going to build the box to DD's suggested specs of 1.75cubes and tuned between 36-38Hz. When I get the pair I was just going to double that, so 3.5 cubes.

I guess I will need to get my hands on a Mechman Rhino series alt before I can double up my amps and subs, if you're gonna do it might as well do it right, right?

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Exactly, do it right the first time. Piecing together like you plan is perfectly fine though, just as long as you have one solid end goal in mind.

I'm not sure what the capabilities of bass box pro are. I have always used winISD, and in it you can plot the frequency response of a sub in a given box. However, you must realize that the frequency responses given in these programs is in a perfect environment with no resonances or cabin gain. Once you put the box in a vehicle the frequency response will change. However, at least going into the situation with a good box in the first place is the thing to do.

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Steve uses Rockford Fosgate, and RE as well. Oh and he puts gas in his vehicles...why don't ya boycott gasoline! He eats food too, stop eating food that's supporting ***** *****!

Seriously now, how old are you?

Do you know anything about our situation other than the fact that I choose not to do business with companies he has close ties with? But yet you're forming an opinion on it and using retarded metaphors to further prove how immature YOU are!

The guy that boycotts audio brands that are used by a famous car audio installer is saying I'm immature.

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Exactly, do it right the first time. Piecing together like you plan is perfectly fine though, just as long as you have one solid end goal in mind.

I'm not sure what the capabilities of bass box pro are. I have always used winISD, and in it you can plot the frequency response of a sub in a given box. However, you must realize that the frequency responses given in these programs is in a perfect environment with no resonances or cabin gain. Once you put the box in a vehicle the frequency response will change. However, at least going into the situation with a good box in the first place is the thing to do.

Yeah, I think that's what I need to finalize, the solid end goal. I'm hoping that the one 2512 being pushed off my AQ1200D @ 1 ohm would satisfy me, but that remains to be seen. WinISD doesn't like my machine for some reason but I do have BBP6 so I think I'll play around with it a bit and see what it can do. Thanks for the help and suggestions, it's helping me learn more and understand better :drink40:
The guy that boycotts audio brands that are used by a famous car audio installer is saying I'm immature.
At least you understood that clearly! And just for the record, I've had systems in my car since I was 17yrs old and never have I purchased any of the products i'm "boycotting"....I did have a Power HX2 12" for a while but that was only due to me trading 2 MTX 10's for it. But beyond that, I've never owned any of the aforementioned products, and it's not like they're the only one's that make decent products in the car audio world. But anyways, i'm done speaking on the subject, it is what it is. Carry on... Edited by SQLMonte

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"You cannot run 2200 watts RMS on a 105 amp stock alternator."

^^^^^^^^ Not true in the least

Heres a vid of your car, the monte, with an AQ2200D and two XFL 12s in custom boxes.

Same set-up installed in a little Eclpise(with ZERO electrical upgrades)

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"You cannot run 2200 watts RMS on a 105 amp stock alternator."

^^^^^^^^ Not true in the least

Heres a vid of your car, the monte, with an AQ2200D and two XFL 12s in custom boxes.

Was that supposed to be impressive or depressing?

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Yeah you could throw a 2000-3000 watt amp in your car and run it off the electrical, nobody said that you cant like it is impossible. But yeah to get every watt from your amp, not kill you alternator or strain it (play as loud as you want for as long as you want) then your gonna need some upgrades to the electrical. Whether the upgrades are Big 3, battery, ho alternator or something to keep the voltage steady so the power can be there. There is no way they are seeing 14.4 volts when that system is fully bumping with no upgrades what so ever.

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"You cannot run 2200 watts RMS on a 105 amp stock alternator."

^^^^^^^^ Not true in the least

Heres a vid of your car, the monte, with an AQ2200D and two XFL 12s in custom boxes.

Same set-up installed in a little Eclpise(with ZERO electrical upgrades)

Well obviously it's possible, I don't think they were saying it wasn't. So how much voltage drop do those cars have? I guarantee you it's not running at 14.4 when the system is bangin' like that.

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^ That stock alternator is GOING to fail.

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"You cannot run 2200 watts RMS on a 105 amp stock alternator."

^^^^^^^^ Not true in the least

Heres a vid of your car, the monte, with an AQ2200D and two XFL 12s in custom boxes.

Was that supposed to be impressive or depressing?

lol, O M, you crack me up.

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i second the notion on not being able to run 2200 rms on a 105 amp alternator. i had a brutus 2608d on a 105 amp alternator running @ 2 ohms. rated 1700 @ 2 ohms, and we all know that it doesnt actually do 1700 either. and i still get wicked voltage drop if i turn it up too much. I've also fried one of these alternators and recently fried the amp about a month ago :suicide-santa: . so take my word and do NOT put that AQ2200 on stock electrical. you WILL regret it.

Edited by Gioia69

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"You cannot run 2200 watts RMS on a 105 amp stock alternator."

^^^^^^^^ Not true in the least

I think you should do more research. If what you say is true can you mathematically prove it? Because I can mathematically disprove it.

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"You cannot run 2200 watts RMS on a 105 amp stock alternator."

^^^^^^^^ Not true in the least

Ha, your videos mean nothing.

Please, enlighten me. Tell me how your voltage is going to stay above 12 while pulling 250+ amps on a 105 amp alternator. Tell me it's not more work for the alternator to recharge the batteries that get drained every time you play for longer than a minute.

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2200 watts on a stock 105 amp alt : I would love to know that it can work, but it's electricity and mechanics, not magic !!!

You would kill your amp, or/and your alternator, or/and your battery very very quickly.

Believe it or not, it's like that.

I think that above 1000-1500 watts, you NEED some electrical upgrades.

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I'd be embarrassed to post a vid like that.

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I'd be embarrassed to post a vid like that.

x2, why do people put hard objects on there car just to watch them bounce off (will scratch or dent your paint and it should jump). It makes no sense to me, I never understood it and still dont.

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Ok, since it's bash the newb, allow me this lowly rebuttle.

The amp is set to about 1/4 gain

The woofers are American Bass XFL12D4 in customs boxes built by me and I have no clue how to fabricate an enclosure, something about laminar flow and 1782 ft per sec and 1/8th space and all that jazz.

The car is running a Kinetic 2000 about 8 inches from the AQ2200.

All equipment mentioned thus far is mounted to paint matched board immediatly behind the rear seat.

This set-up has been like this for close to a year.

There are 8 grounds under the hood.

There are 8 grounds in the rear of the car, 3 involve the seatbelt bolts on the floor.

There is one run of 0AWG from front to back.

The rules state S Q and S P L cannot be mentioned - ever. Thus rendering all data on here objectionable. Including these videos, neither of which car is mine, or yours for that matter. So why care if someone else scrathed thier car? (PS if you do care so much, there is a Nerf football shaped crack in the passenger side door, The hood has hail damage, and the front bumper shows yellow glas, and I try not to show that side.)

This car is more than likey NOT pulling more than about 120A of current at its peak.

IF the amplifier WAS set to pull more current than that - the 12s would pop.

The headlight do not dim.

What would you change about this set-up?

I got blasted for running Bass Boost, so thats off, Bass on the deck is at -6.

I should change my name to Permanent Newb or soomething.

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Sorry, forgot to mention the Eclipse.

He did not care about elcetrical upgades and did not understand thier importance in his system. Yeah, he will be back in a few weeks asking why is amp popped like an M80 and looking to get a bigger amp, since it must have blown since it was too small, lol, and asking about this SAZ3000D like his buddy has...

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Ok, since it's bash the newb, allow me this lowly rebuttle.

The amp is set to about 1/4 gain

The woofers are American Bass XFL12D4 in customs boxes built by me and I have no clue how to fabricate an enclosure, something about laminar flow and 1782 ft per sec and 1/8th space and all that jazz.

The car is running a Kinetic 2000 about 8 inches from the AQ2200.

All equipment mentioned thus far is mounted to paint matched board immediatly behind the rear seat.

This set-up has been like this for close to a year.

There are 8 grounds under the hood.

There are 8 grounds in the rear of the car, 3 involve the seatbelt bolts on the floor.

There is one run of 0AWG from front to back.

The rules state S Q and S P L cannot be mentioned - ever. Thus rendering all data on here objectionable. Including these videos, neither of which car is mine, or yours for that matter. So why care if someone else scrathed thier car? (PS if you do care so much, there is a Nerf football shaped crack in the passenger side door, The hood has hail damage, and the front bumper shows yellow glas, and I try not to show that side.)

This car is more than likey NOT pulling more than about 120A of current at its peak.

IF the amplifier WAS set to pull more current than that - the 12s would pop.

The headlight do not dim.

What would you change about this set-up?

I got blasted for running Bass Boost, so thats off, Bass on the deck is at -6.

I should change my name to Permanent Newb or soomething.

I know its not my car, it doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure that out (I said I dont understand why people do that to there cars like it is some sort of testosterone booster or something, look how high I can make my lighter or phone jump off of my trunk where bass is), now that is major FAIL :Doh:.

I have an extra ground and what not and know that there is nothing wrong with extras grounds but why the need for 16 grounds (where all the factory ones upgraded and you mentioned them or you just added 16 extra grounds to the car)?

Telling someone that a Audioque 2200D can be ran off stock alternator and dont give any information like this to back up your claims makes newbs believe this thinking if they get one of those amps they will be fine off of stock battery, alternator and gains more than 1/4 of the way up. This can be bad information in the wrong hands at the end of the day, that is why we always ask for all information available when making post or topics.

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Gotcha, I should have mentioned it was no cranked up a lot.

Extra grounds were pre-stamped 4AWG with eyelits from AutoZone, we got a crap load of them for $30. This was cheaper than another run of 0.

OP - UNLESS you have done a laundry list of el-cheapo "up-grades" do not attempt to run a 2200D of a stock alt.

Wedling Supply.com has a crap tom of 4, 3, 2, 1, 0, 0/1, 0/2, and 0/3 and is usually pretty reasonable on prices aside from ahipping in quantity, unless you live close. If you have an account with a car parts store like AutoZone, you can score some sweet deals.

A few of the ppl around here have salvaged chubby alts from old semis and school buses with some luck.

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Gotcha, I should have mentioned it was no cranked up a lot.

Extra grounds were pre-stamped 4AWG with eyelits from AutoZone, we got a crap load of them for $30. This was cheaper than another run of 0.

OP - UNLESS you have done a laundry list of el-cheapo "up-grades" do not attempt to run a 2200D of a stock alt.

Wedling Supply.com has a crap tom of 4, 3, 2, 1, 0, 0/1, 0/2, and 0/3 and is usually pretty reasonable on prices aside from ahipping in quantity, unless you live close. If you have an account with a car parts store like AutoZone, you can score some sweet deals.

A few of the ppl around here have salvaged chubby alts from old semis and school buses with some luck.

I thought you just went around adding random 1/0AWG wires to the car's chassis and whatever else you could get a hold of but now I understand what you did.

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