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Blues Production Sub's. . . . . . . Remember

Blues Production Sub's  

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  1. 1. Anyone Remember These Sub's



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As far as the triso's go, the new drivers wont work in that style enclosure( with the old drivers the characteristics of two eights EXACTLY matched that of one ten and the new drivers dont) trust me, we tried and i cried when that happened.

And that's EXACTLY the reason why I hesitate to put the dual tri-so back in the GN. Replacement drivers would be really tough to get. Besides, the dual tri-so lives a pretty good life in the home theater. No heat or cold extremes, no one pounding on it all the time with a modified 5002 trying to drive the 8's through the back of the 10. Plus the box will not fit unless I take the trunk torsion bars out. Been there, done that, major PITA to get back right. :No:

Though I'm pretty sure Rich would give up enough drivers for me to do a new dual tri-so in the GN. :puzzled: Do a nice trick box with a plexi front, shiney paint on the interior and led back lighting. :woot: Though I would really hate to build something that Blues cannot offer with the new product line. :shrug:

But FIRST, I have to get the Iso-10 in the truck. And it looks like I may not get started until I get back from Buick Nationals next month. Can someone say, no room in my shop? Too full of Buick stuff. I figure if I can get Mike or Jimmy for a couple of days, we could knock the box out, have it tuned and ready to be upholstered or painted. I would like to have it done by Scrapin' the Coast. :suicide-santa:

Im there Dude! Ill tell the red head he has marching orders!

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Im there Dude! Ill tell the red head he has marching orders!

He answers to another redhead. :fryingpan::owned:

I have the plans drawn up (the port will need to be modified) and have the bracket that will be used to mount it. It's just a matter of having some place to do the cutting/building. My table saw took a dump when I was building my small shop, so I'm without.

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Part Number MSRP

BL6.5C $879.99

BL8.0C $949.99

BL8.0 $299.99

BL10 $339.99

LOL....wow. Pretty salty.

Wish their website had (a lot) more info on it. But those would have to be some pretty spectacular pieces of equipment to support those prices, considering they're priced up there with some of the best performing speakers on the planet.

Well, now that time has gone by they have beat most all of the other high(er) dollar equipment, and took 8 awards and two world titles home from Finals, and all without a piece of time alignment nor processing to make them perform perfectly. All of these guys systems are running less than 5000 or 6000 dollar systems and beating systems that cost 6 to 12 times that much to build.

I think that says plenty about the quality of speaker you are buying and that the price is not too high.

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Part Number MSRP

BL6.5C $879.99

BL8.0C $949.99

BL8.0 $299.99

BL10 $339.99

LOL....wow. Pretty salty.

Wish their website had (a lot) more info on it. But those would have to be some pretty spectacular pieces of equipment to support those prices, considering they're priced up there with some of the best performing speakers on the planet.

Well, now that time has gone by they have beat most all of the other high(er) dollar equipment, and took 8 awards and two world titles home from Finals, and all without a piece of time alignment nor processing to make them perform perfectly. All of these guys systems are running less than 5000 or 6000 dollar systems and beating systems that cost 6 to 12 times that much to build.

I think that says plenty about the quality of speaker you are buying and that the price is not too high.

Dude, you ain't heard nothing yet ... Wait until you settle your ears on the new 5.25 component set ... Astonishing !!! Absolutely breathtaking !!!

I have definately figured out my plans for my home theatre setup ...

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The Blues new component line-up does look very nice

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Part Number MSRP

BL6.5C $879.99

BL8.0C $949.99

BL8.0 $299.99

BL10 $339.99

LOL....wow. Pretty salty.

Wish their website had (a lot) more info on it. But those would have to be some pretty spectacular pieces of equipment to support those prices, considering they're priced up there with some of the best performing speakers on the planet.

Well, now that time has gone by they have beat most all of the other high(er) dollar equipment, and took 8 awards and two world titles home from Finals, and all without a piece of time alignment nor processing to make them perform perfectly. All of these guys systems are running less than 5000 or 6000 dollar systems and beating systems that cost 6 to 12 times that much to build.

I think that says plenty about the quality of speaker you are buying and that the price is not too high.

Titles don't mean much, I'd much rather have full T/S parameters than saying they won the "Such and Such Award", or took home a few trophies.

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Part Number MSRP

BL6.5C $879.99

BL8.0C $949.99

BL8.0 $299.99

BL10 $339.99

LOL....wow. Pretty salty.

Wish their website had (a lot) more info on it. But those would have to be some pretty spectacular pieces of equipment to support those prices, considering they're priced up there with some of the best performing speakers on the planet.

Well, now that time has gone by they have beat most all of the other high(er) dollar equipment, and took 8 awards and two world titles home from Finals, and all without a piece of time alignment nor processing to make them perform perfectly. All of these guys systems are running less than 5000 or 6000 dollar systems and beating systems that cost 6 to 12 times that much to build.

I think that says plenty about the quality of speaker you are buying and that the price is not too high.

That really doesn't mean anything. Sorry to burst your bubble. Competition is not a valid format for comparing individual products as there are far too many variables at play. This is where things like empirical testing become extremely helpful at identifying actual, meaningful differences between products. The products might do well in competition yet still very well be underperforming for their price, and overpriced for their performance and/or build quality.

What if I built a system that "beat" a Blues stereo in competition out of $200 worth of speakers with the same minimal processing? Using your logic, that would then prove conclusively that they are overpriced, correct?

Sorry, I'm not impressed by their "SQ" competition awards (although I do offer congratulations to the winners, who I'm sure devoted a large amount of time and sweat into building their systems). I'm sorry I'm a more demanding consumer, one who is not going to be awestruck by some shiny trophies and requires more in-depth information. I'm sorry I'm not willing to accept a determination of a products worth or performance based on primarily subjective opinions. And I'm sorry that I'm one who understands the value and benefit of empirical analysis.

They very well might be worth the asking price in terms of performance. But some trophies and subjective opinions are not what's going to make that statement true, at least not with any semblance of actual validity. It will take a much more scrupulous examination to make that kind of determination.

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Well put. Terrible mechanism for testing speakers IMO. A Klippel, Laser Vibrometer and a true measurement mic in an anechoic space are FAR, FAR better for testing.

And anyone who argues differently is drinking marketing koolaid and/or completely clueless.

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Wish their website had (a lot) more info on it. But those would have to be some pretty spectacular pieces of equipment to support those prices, considering they're priced up there with some of the best performing speakers on the planet.

Well, now that time has gone by they have beat most all of the other high(er) dollar equipment, and took 8 awards and two world titles home from Finals, and all without a piece of time alignment nor processing to make them perform perfectly. All of these guys systems are running less than 5000 or 6000 dollar systems and beating systems that cost 6 to 12 times that much to build.

I think that says plenty about the quality of speaker you are buying and that the price is not too high.

Team Linear / Blues did not make this comment ... Please do not bash us ... We are letting the equipment speak for it self ... Thank you people that have heard our systems for giving us your oppinions ...

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We are telling people about our product.

We are showing and demoing the product at every show / parking lot we can find ... thanks, Randal ...

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Wish their website had (a lot) more info on it. But those would have to be some pretty spectacular pieces of equipment to support those prices, considering they're priced up there with some of the best performing speakers on the planet.

Well, now that time has gone by they have beat most all of the other high(er) dollar equipment, and took 8 awards and two world titles home from Finals, and all without a piece of time alignment nor processing to make them perform perfectly. All of these guys systems are running less than 5000 or 6000 dollar systems and beating systems that cost 6 to 12 times that much to build.

I think that says plenty about the quality of speaker you are buying and that the price is not too high.

Team Linear / Blues did not make this comment ... Please do not bash us ... We are letting the equipment speak for it self ... Thank you people that have heard our systems for giving us your oppinions ...

Neither Impious or I bashed anything other than the people who claim that the stuff that wins a competition is the best. That comment is absurd. As for letting the equipment speak for itself, I gave you the right way to do that here:

A Klippel, Laser Vibrometer and a true measurement mic in an anechoic space are FAR, FAR better for testing.

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Wish their website had (a lot) more info on it. But those would have to be some pretty spectacular pieces of equipment to support those prices, considering they're priced up there with some of the best performing speakers on the planet.

Well, now that time has gone by they have beat most all of the other high(er) dollar equipment, and took 8 awards and two world titles home from Finals, and all without a piece of time alignment nor processing to make them perform perfectly. All of these guys systems are running less than 5000 or 6000 dollar systems and beating systems that cost 6 to 12 times that much to build.

I think that says plenty about the quality of speaker you are buying and that the price is not too high.

Team Linear / Blues did not make this comment ... Please do not bash us ... We are letting the equipment speak for it self ... Thank you people that have heard our systems for giving us your oppinions ...

Neither Impious or I bashed anything other than the people who claim that the stuff that wins a competition is the best. That comment is absurd. As for letting the equipment speak for itself, I gave you the right way to do that here:

A Klippel, Laser Vibrometer and a true measurement mic in an anechoic space are FAR, FAR better for testing.

Sounds good to me bro ...

I'm just saying that this guy "whodat" started this and brought this thread back to life ... It was not Team Linear / Blues ...

We are just having fun by demoing and competing ... hell, I lost my ass this year at finals, but I had alot of fun ...

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If I was in the market and they sound good to my ears, I would give them a try.

:ughdunno:

Minus the fan boy above who may not even run the drivers, Team LP/Blues is a good group of guys just doing their thing. Carry on.

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Those prices are ridiculous! Of course I've never heard an expensive driver that could not have it's sound replicated by that of another a fraction of it's price.

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WOW!!!! How refreshing it is to go to a blog where the argument is about the objectivness of sq and the human ear and NOT about how many teeny boppers hair we can stand on end!!!!! LOVE IT!!!!!!! Impious is very correct, everyone has a different concept of what sounds good! Lord knows ive had plenty of issues with judges and so forth in the past telling me my cars dont sound good and the way i normally delt with that was i didnt go back to shows they were judging! But most judges know they have a certain criteria they are to go by to judge a vehicle. For instance, Ive been a USACi judge since 1989 (went to the first finals that year, it was in a barn in Dallas Texas). I was 16 and had no idea what good sound was!!! But over the years i learned from other judges and people who are knowlegable in sq how to judge and what to listen for. BUT MY OPINION OF WHAT SOUNDS GOOD SOME TIMES DIFFERS FROM WHAT USAC OR ANYONE ELSE SAYS SOUNDS GOOD!!!!!! Thats why i made the offer for him to hear them. And anyone who knows me knows ive fought for years to take the subjectivity out of the hands of judges(even worked with a local computer guru to attach mics to the head of a maniquin connected to a program that could detect optimum stage in a vehicle. 6appeal and i have discussed this tons of times in the past)but a computer cant determine wether a system sounds good ONLY the programmer of said computer which in turn means that ONE PERSON DETERMINES IF OUR STUFF SOUNDS GOOD!! vicious cycle huh!!! And the theille smalls comparison, im sure they even had an opinion on what actually sounded good, i mean surely they had to use their ears before they came up with those parameters we love and use every day!!!!

This is an argument that will probably surpass the ages of time but its a fun one aint it!!! oh and by the way impious, can you send me info on that vw you talked about? Ive heard of the car just never got to see it. I thought i was the only guy to go to a gunfight with a knife(I won at USACi World Finals with a Toyota Corolla with no amps and no subs in '96 and '97 all off the power of the head unit). and by the way please excuse the spelling!!!

Oh shit... i'd hate my life if you beat me using that system lol

Good job :)

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WOW!!!! How refreshing it is to go to a blog where the argument is about the objectivness of sq and the human ear and NOT about how many teeny boppers hair we can stand on end!!!!! LOVE IT!!!!!!! Impious is very correct, everyone has a different concept of what sounds good! Lord knows ive had plenty of issues with judges and so forth in the past telling me my cars dont sound good and the way i normally delt with that was i didnt go back to shows they were judging! But most judges know they have a certain criteria they are to go by to judge a vehicle. For instance, Ive been a USACi judge since 1989 (went to the first finals that year, it was in a barn in Dallas Texas). I was 16 and had no idea what good sound was!!! But over the years i learned from other judges and people who are knowlegable in sq how to judge and what to listen for. BUT MY OPINION OF WHAT SOUNDS GOOD SOME TIMES DIFFERS FROM WHAT USAC OR ANYONE ELSE SAYS SOUNDS GOOD!!!!!! Thats why i made the offer for him to hear them. And anyone who knows me knows ive fought for years to take the subjectivity out of the hands of judges(even worked with a local computer guru to attach mics to the head of a maniquin connected to a program that could detect optimum stage in a vehicle. 6appeal and i have discussed this tons of times in the past)but a computer cant determine wether a system sounds good ONLY the programmer of said computer which in turn means that ONE PERSON DETERMINES IF OUR STUFF SOUNDS GOOD!! vicious cycle huh!!! And the theille smalls comparison, im sure they even had an opinion on what actually sounded good, i mean surely they had to use their ears before they came up with those parameters we love and use every day!!!!

This is an argument that will probably surpass the ages of time but its a fun one aint it!!! oh and by the way impious, can you send me info on that vw you talked about? Ive heard of the car just never got to see it. I thought i was the only guy to go to a gunfight with a knife(I won at USACi World Finals with a Toyota Corolla with no amps and no subs in '96 and '97 all off the power of the head unit). and by the way please excuse the spelling!!!

Oh shit... i'd hate my life if you beat me using that system lol

Good job :)

Great guy !!! Was an Awesome car ...

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WOW!!!! How refreshing it is to go to a blog where the argument is about the objectivness of sq and the human ear and NOT about how many teeny boppers hair we can stand on end!!!!! LOVE IT!!!!!!! Impious is very correct, everyone has a different concept of what sounds good! Lord knows ive had plenty of issues with judges and so forth in the past telling me my cars dont sound good and the way i normally delt with that was i didnt go back to shows they were judging! But most judges know they have a certain criteria they are to go by to judge a vehicle. For instance, Ive been a USACi judge since 1989 (went to the first finals that year, it was in a barn in Dallas Texas). I was 16 and had no idea what good sound was!!! But over the years i learned from other judges and people who are knowlegable in sq how to judge and what to listen for. BUT MY OPINION OF WHAT SOUNDS GOOD SOME TIMES DIFFERS FROM WHAT USAC OR ANYONE ELSE SAYS SOUNDS GOOD!!!!!! Thats why i made the offer for him to hear them. And anyone who knows me knows ive fought for years to take the subjectivity out of the hands of judges(even worked with a local computer guru to attach mics to the head of a maniquin connected to a program that could detect optimum stage in a vehicle. 6appeal and i have discussed this tons of times in the past)but a computer cant determine wether a system sounds good ONLY the programmer of said computer which in turn means that ONE PERSON DETERMINES IF OUR STUFF SOUNDS GOOD!! vicious cycle huh!!! And the theille smalls comparison, im sure they even had an opinion on what actually sounded good, i mean surely they had to use their ears before they came up with those parameters we love and use every day!!!!

This is an argument that will probably surpass the ages of time but its a fun one aint it!!! oh and by the way impious, can you send me info on that vw you talked about? Ive heard of the car just never got to see it. I thought i was the only guy to go to a gunfight with a knife(I won at USACi World Finals with a Toyota Corolla with no amps and no subs in '96 and '97 all off the power of the head unit). and by the way please excuse the spelling!!!

Oh shit... i'd hate my life if you beat me using that system lol

Good job :)

Ha! I would quit. :P

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Hey Randall dont throw "who ****" under the bus! Just like everyone else he is stateing an opinion based on facts. Impious made a comparison of the blues speakers to other high dollar speakers (i mean thats the only way he could know whats expensive or not,right?) and who **** just made the comment that he thought since the blues beat the other speakers that they were worth the money. I agree that trophies dont make the speakers sound good and that car stereo competitions are VERY objective BUT, as humans we tend to move toward the "winning team"(if not the Super Bowl wouldnt be the most watched once a year TV show and NOBODY would pay thousands of dollars to go to the World Series) and as consumers we do the same. We also tend to go with ratings of different things,WHICH IS VERY OBJECTIVE! And the way most car stereo gets rated is at stereo shows. I mean think about it: You open your favorite Car Audio Mag and what do you see? If its not a naked female holding car audio equipment in just the right places(or the wrong ones) its a competitor hoisting up a trophy! THINK ABOUT IT!

As for Theille/Smalls Stats that really isnt a true comparison in stereo. I know this just opened a whole new discusion so please let me explain. These are stats made by precission instruments to a speaker in A PERFECT INVIROMENT! NOT THE REAL WORLD! They are only to give you a reference point so you can design an enclosure for your application. If you look at most of the reputable companys that leave these stats they even give you a percentage of variable (usually 25 to 30 percent) that the stats are OFF.

So what it boils down to is YOU! (the consumer). What sounds good to YOU! I can get you all the t/s parameters you want IF IT DOESNT SOUND GOOD TO YOU, WHATS IT MATTER?

As for the guys saying they would quit if they got beat by the corrolla, her are some stats. In 1996, my first championship, the 0-100 Pro Class(my class) was the largest in USACi sq history (over 150 competitors in the one class). In 1997 there were 7 in that class!

Edited by Mike Flanagan

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I wasn't trying to throw anyone under the bus, If it sounded that way, sorry bro, not entitional.

I was just trying to keep another argument form getting started about testing Audio equipment and things like that ...

His post got three moderators responses that did not sound good for no one ... I just thought that he should have chosen his words a little better, thats all ... Thanks, Randal ...

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I agree that trophies dont make the speakers sound good and that car stereo competitions are VERY objective

You mean subjective.

(if not the Super Bowl wouldnt be the most watched once a year TV show

I watch for the commercials :) (well, used to.....they've sucked here the past few years)

We also tend to go with ratings of different things,WHICH IS VERY OBJECTIVE!

I think you mean subjective again.

And the way most car stereo gets rated is at stereo shows.

Some car stereos get "rated" or judged at car audio competitions.

But we aren't discussing car stereos as a whole, we were discussing an individual product; speakers. Therein lies the problem. A car stereo competition is a terrible means by which to attempt to "judge" individual speakers against other individual speakers. It's subject to a wide range of variables.....from subjective opinions to environmental and tuning/setup issues. Which makes it pretty useless for the purposes of comparing speakers themselves.

Enter objective measurements......the ideal grounds upon which to compare individual speakers.

You open your favorite Car Audio Mag

Do those even exist anymore?

As for Theille/Smalls Stats that really isnt a true comparison in stereo.

Huh?

These are stats made by precission instruments to a speaker in A PERFECT INVIROMENT! NOT THE REAL WORLD!

If you don't understand how objective measurements correlate to the "real world", then you don't understand objective measurements.

They are only to give you a reference point so you can design an enclosure for your application.

If you think that's the extent of the usefulness of T/S parameters, then you don't understand T/S parameters.

If you look at most of the reputable companys that leave these stats they even give you a percentage of variable (usually 25 to 30 percent) that the stats are OFF.

30% is a pretty pessimistic figure, or a brand with lesser quality QC......most good brands with decent QC are going to be in the sub-20% range. Which realistically isn't going to make much of a difference in overall performance.

I can get you all the t/s parameters you want IF IT DOESNT SOUND GOOD TO YOU, WHATS IT MATTER?

It would certainly be naive to think (or say) that T/S parameters entirely encapsulate the sound of a speaker. Nobody here is making such a claim. T/S parameters are a good start to understanding the behavior of a speaker, however. And some trophies and subjective opinions certainly don't tell me anything about the speakers.

Though I do agree, one should select products based on what sound the end user is looking to achieve. But that doesn't make objective measurements any less useful.

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Brad you really didn't say that strongly enough. Objective measurements of a speaker will show EXACTLY what it can do. There is no magic driver that can avoid Physics. If it doesn't measure or model well for an application then it isn't a good driver for that application. Doesn't mean it can't fit a niche, but it will mean that there is something that can do that better. Subjectively some idiot may like it better, but that just confirms their stupidity. All the forum boners over brands and hype over nonsense is incredible. Shows the power of marketing and the lies and BS that some companies use to promote their gear which makes me sick.

I am all game for someone defending their product and stating what it can do, but as I said earlier in this thread:

A Klippel, Laser Vibrometer and a true measurement mic in an anechoic space are FAR, FAR better for testing.

Subjective responses by judges who are already aurally challenged will NEVER impress me, but true measurements will. If you want to pimp some product feel free to post up some REAL objective results. If you are unwilling and will only throw down subjective nonsense then it is obvious you are hiding the truth.

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Sorry you were right, I ment subjective! Thats what happens when you post while your still asleep!

As for the t/s measurements, Ill stick with what I said. They are the reference point of which to start from. Not the end all.

Look its like this. Listen to what you like. Dont listen to what you dont like. But dont criticize anything you havent listened too!(Thats price, sound or looks).

And my quote for the day: Watch whos toes you step on today,they might be connected to the butt you have to kiss tomorrow!

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As for the t/s measurements, Ill stick with what I said. They are the reference point of which to start from. Not the end all.

When taken correctly, measurements cannot and never lie. You should note that I didn't cite only t/s measurements but others as well. As a whole when together they are not just a reference point but a true measure of performance.

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Agree that judging is quite subjective. Back in the day, I liked the way my systems sounded. Otherwise they would not have been in my car/truck. Went to contest and where I place was all over the place, won a few, didn't place at some, got dead last before. It didn't change the fact that the system in my car/truck was for MY ENJOYMENT. Move forward to today. I like the system in my car/truck. Went to contests and won a USACi World title, so what. Still doesn't change the fact that the system in my car/truck is for my enjoyment.

I've demo'ed my system for a ton of folks and will for anyone that wants to listen. If you like it, great. Is it worth the cost to you? That is your decision. If you don't, like it, so what, it's my system and I'm not changing it so you like it. It's just like any of the other boards where you read complaints about such and such judge at such and such show. It goes back to subjective opinions.

Now as far as hyper-critical analysis of parms. If that's your thing, fine. But it is not the manufacture's responsibility to satisfy your thirst for parms. If you need or want more "numbers", take it upon yourself to satisfy your need for hyper-critical analysis. But accusing or condenming a manufacture of lying to or scamming the public because they only release a certain set of parms is not different than assumed guilt rather than assumed innocence (the TSA is a perfect example).

I take parms with a "grain of salt". Which I suppose has me agreeing with Mike. Parms are the reference point of which to start from. Not the end all, be all. Been there, done that, burned through plenty of cash on the "perfect parms" driver that sounded like azz. Lesson leared that the install environment doesn't necessarly mean that the "perfect parms" will be perfect any longer no matter how many times you try to get the install right.

Product boners? Yea, I've had a few, still have a couple as can be seen in my sig. Burned through a bunch of cash trying out a bunch of the forum boners through the years (F1, Hybrid, Seas, Focal, Morel, Tang Band, Dayton, Peerless, the latest Parts Express or Madisound blowout and so on). Found some winners, wasted cash and time on others.

In the end it comes down to one point. Opinions are like azzholes, everybody has one.

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