What's missing in this industry?

[CBFryman 2]

Mainstream dealers that know what they are doing. They shouldnt be allowed to call them selves a good dealer/installer just because they took some reterded certification class that says they can cut wood and run a wire.

One can learn more than your average local dealer simply by reading around on the internet and exparementing on their own with cheap speakers and helping with as many DIY projects as possible. Much as i did. I did work for a short time at the better of the 3 installers localy and did learn quite a bit. However even after leaving there i learned A LOT more.

There should be a standardized test in which they can display saying they are true able to do such and such. This test should consist of taking an old beater and a given budget (they pay for it at least) or given supplies, then making 1.) an SPL system to a certian standard, 2.) an SQ system to a certian standard, and 3.) making a good SQl daily system to a certian standard.

Even the Dealer i worked at thought "oh ill just throw som componets willy nilly into the doors, with out proper aiming of the tweeters or anything and call it the best in the business."

Companies like JL also need to whip up on what their dealers are allowed to say about their prodicts. I know it isnt JL the company but EVERY single dealer i have met and spoke about stereo's with for any given ammount of time says that the w713 is byfar the greatest driver avalable today. The standard has yet to be broken. Even thoes who know full well about companies liek RE, Adire, Sound Splinter, and others.

I would respect JL 100% more if they did with their product like Dan Wiggins is saying he is going to do with his new linup though a delaer network, the dealer MUST be educated though adire to sell adires product. if the same happened with JL a lot of the "JLw7 13 in a power wedge box kills all" would go far far away

also, the price per hour of install needs to come down greatly. $71 is the going rate localy if i remmeber correctly. $71!!! for just the cost of a complicated install where they charge you 15hrs + i could have EASILY done the same quality enclosure AND paid for my own drivers. $1000 of equpitment can easily become a $2500 instalation.

[Tirefryr 1,742]

I agree for the most part, but you have to take into effect the dealer's position. They are there to make money first of all.

The MAJORITY of their business is going to be drop-in replacements, add-on accessories, or something easily removable. Not many are ever going to get a customer that wants the extreme install whether it be on the SPL or SQ side. If they want to venture into this side, then I think they will do what needs to be done in the form of education and personnel.

People like us are a rare breed to the dealer. While we may seem vast, there is an even larger number of consumers who are not savvy on internet brands or even the basic knowledge of what really goes on with their equipment. Dealers really don't cater much to people like "us." They simply don't need to.

The dealer also needs to just be educated and concerned with the lines they are selling for the most part. This is the bread and butter of their business and this is why they concentrate on that, whether it be JL, RF, Kicker, whatever. Again, we're going back to the monetary side. Of course the JL dealer is going to say his product is the best. That's what he sells. That's fine with me. I have the option to NOT buy. If the price of the W7s were equal to that of their internet counterparts, you could damn sure bet, JL would be selling even more.

The big problem with the internet is that people get hyped up on something and a bandwagon starts. You can sure bet Adire and RE sold a lot of drivers just based on the size of their motors and beastly looks of the drivers. America is still under the influence of "bigger is better," and consumers are reacting to the bigger. You can see this better with amplifiers. The average consumer goes to buy an amp and sees, "1000000watts!!" They've already made up their mind that this is what they want, no matter what someone tells them. It says that, it must do that, right? How could they put it on there if it doesn't. Society is stupid.

Basically it comes down to knowledge and the fact that the majority of people whom deal with shops are uneducated and that is where they will cater their business to. They are there to sell their product and provide the service for it.

[Aaron Clinton 2,372]

I agree Ryan

[CBFryman 2]

+1

but still, even thoes dealer who sell, kicker, RF, excetera STILL say JL is the best...they will tell you a w1v2 will always be louder than a Comp VR when we all know this to be untrue.

maybe the day will come when the audio buyer will be just as educated as the car buyer... the problem with the modern car buyer is that a lot of them think the dealer needs to make no proffit, led along the salesman who's main income is comission.

[Tirefryr 1,742]

+1

but still, even thoes dealer who sell, kicker, RF, excetera STILL say JL is the best...

[Aaron Clinton 2,372]

I believe that, I know there are countless installers and sales people who are brain washed by hype, just like the customers,

so the salesmen are either stupid or have 1/2 a clue, because like posted before, new people to the "sport" are going to have a hard time listening to what other people want to tell them when it is contrary to what they already had set in their minds when they walked into the store, so when so much of the public see's JL W3's and W7's in all these different Hip Hop "artist's" "whips" they think that these JL's must be the best, in conclusion the salesmen are telling the customers what they want to hear the customer comes in with nothing but JL on the brain and the salesman says JL blah blitty blah and they make a sale on an over priced and over hyped averge product,

it is amazing the way the mind works, if someone is lead to believe a certain sound is the best sound every they are probably going to fall into believing that, so when they customers drop $3500 and walk out with just an average HU, speakers, and one maybe 2 half decent amplifers and a pair of medocire subs they think they are the rolling around with the best sound in the world, and will not think twice if they could have done some reasearch or some reading and testing they could have saved a ton of money and gained a greater level of SQ and output, ok enough with the rant,

did we cover all of that recent topic?

[Tirefryr 1,742]

I believe that, I know there are countless installers and sales people who are brain washed by hype, just like the customers,

so the salesmen are either stupid or have 1/2 a clue, because like posted before, new people to the "sport" are going to have a hard time listening to what other people want to tell them when it is contrary to what they already had set in their minds when they walked into the store, so when so much of the public see's JL W3's and W7's in all these different Hip Hop "artist's" "whips" they think that these JL's must be the best, in conclusion the salesmen are telling the customers what they want to hear the customer comes in with nothing but JL on the brain and the salesman says JL blah blitty blah and they make a sale on an over priced and over hyped averge product,

it is amazing the way the mind works, if someone is lead to believe a certain sound is the best sound every they are probably going to fall into believing that, so when they customers drop $3500 and walk out with just an average HU, speakers, and one maybe 2 half decent amplifers and a pair of medocire subs they think they are the rolling around with the best sound in the world, and will not think twice if they could have done some reasearch or some reading and testing they could have saved a ton of money and gained a greater level of SQ and output, ok enough with the rant,

did we cover all of that recent topic?

True, but it is very hard to change someone's mind when it is already made up. No matter what, if they think it's the best, it's difficult to tell them otherwise. Hell, in their mind, it IS the best, so it may be futile.

Take in point my experience with The Magnum D2. I read all the hype on the net and immediately became biased against it. I kept hearing about it and people were pushing it on me. That just made me more against the idea of using one. I take great offense to someone telling me something is good and pushing their beliefs on me. I had the chance to play with them and took it. When I received them, I already had it in my mind that they were just going to be "another subwoofer." I built some enclosures and started listening. Did some tweaking here and there, and about did a flip. With all the hype and my negative attitude towards them already, the driver just flat out amazed me. I was proven wrong, thank God , but I had to experience it for myself.

I think this can be translated back into the sales/dealer department. If these guys had the ability to play around with all types of stuff, their attitudes may change and they may actually start to care about the person behind the sale. But, then again, they may just be all about the money. Hit or miss I guess.

[Tirefryr 1,742]

Something I just thought of.

With this CEA standard, I would like to see efficiency and current consumption added to this list. Too many manufacturers lack these specs which are so very critical for the end user.

[Aaron Clinton 2,372]

Something I just thought of.

With this CEA standard, I would like to see efficiency and current consumption added to this list.  Too many manufacturers lack these specs which are so very critical for the end user.

[Supa_c 1]

That would suck for the companies who make power hungry amps that dont put out the watts.

[Tirefryr 1,742]

That would suck for the companies who make power hungry amps that dont put out the watts.

I don't see this being a problem with the CEA standards. If they are going to list the output and voltages, they should include current consumption and efficiency. This can be simply calculated if need be, but why not list typical consumption with music and sines. To me, that would just be an added bonus and attract me more to that particular brand to know that they took the time and effort to go above and beyond.

[Aaron Clinton 2,372]

That would suck for the companies who make power hungry amps that dont put out the watts.

I don't see this being a problem with the CEA standards. If they are going to list the output and voltages, they should include current consumption and efficiency. This can be simply calculated if need be, but why not list typical consumption with music and sines. To me, that would just be an added bonus and attract me more to that particular brand to know that they took the time and effort to go above and beyond.

I agree, I think it would help some companies and hurt others, example US AMPs are top of the heap for quality and power, but effiency is not their strong suit,

where as another company could be completely oppsite

[Upstage Audio 0]

what the industry lacks is a definitive standard for measuring products and they lack the education or facilities to properly train everyone from top to bottom (ie CEo to dealer/installer) on their products and the competition. My full time job is working for Verizon Wireless and one thing i know seperates us from others is our training. We always are learning new things in the industry and always keeping up with our competition. WHile i know it would be hard for someone to know all the companies out there, i'm completely dumbfounded when someone doesn't know what Zapco is and asks if its a WalMart brand,yeah i smacked them silly. People who work with car stereos as there jobs should one have enough intereste when they first get it and after they been in it a while to learn whats out there even if they don't sell it. Would i want to buy something from someone who says they've never heard of Zapco or ID? Would i want them telling me Sony is a great company and probably better than Zapco(yeah this did happen to me at Best Buy).

And as far as standards, all i really want is a birth sheet that says this amp made this amount of power at this voltage rating and was tested on a (insert time length) on the bench. the other numbers they do all right with and won't complain but i hate companies who test their amps at burst power at 14.4V on their birth sheet. I prefer to have a 12.5V rating so that i know at the minimum i should be making this much power and i would like to know that they had the amp on a bench longer than a couple seconds to get peak power and write that down. but o well, i think i am smart enough to make my own decisions and let the big wigs make their money and let us the consumers be the judges on their products.