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Tirefryr

What's missing in this industry?

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Views and discussion please.

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Industry standards and compliance. It pokes at me when I see Pyle throwing around 2kw amps and subs with 96db sens. Now I know that CES is the "standard" hence the name, but only a few of the many, many brands out there comply. Well atleast some of the mid and higher end mainstream brands do.

It would just be nice to see an actual guide line set to all specs and claims made by retail and manufacturers alike.

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CES is the "standard"

CEA ;)

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CES is the "standard"

CEA ;)

Yeah yeah it was a miskey :P

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I can't really think of anything right now off the top of my head that is missing in the 'industry'.

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it still seems that the industry though we may think its main stream, I still feel it is not there yet, not sure how it will get there, but the track it is taking right now is horrible

IE Audiobahn

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As I find out secrets and "behind the scenes" info, I start to realize that although people say prices on raw materials are going up, I still can't believe the money they are making. I know some drivers that cost $20 to make and disrtibute per unit, yet they sell for $150-$250. Same with some amps. It just boggles my mind. Business is business yes, but I mean come on.

I would love to open up an amplifier company with the quality of Zapco for half the price. I'd still make a ton of money. I just don't get it. Are people really that greedy?

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Are people really that greedy?

Yup.

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As I find out secrets and "behind the scenes" info, I start to realize that although people say prices on raw materials are going up, I still can't believe the money they are making.  I know some drivers that cost $20 to make and disrtibute per unit, yet they sell for $150-$250.  Same with some amps.  It just boggles my mind.  Business is business yes, but I mean come on. 

I would love to open up an amplifier company with the quality of Zapco for half the price.  I'd still make a ton of money.  I just don't get it.  Are people really that greedy?

hey, you me and Dave Edwards could do some damage eh?

Steveo and Nick would help for sure

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I totally agree with the value aspect :+1: I think integrity, honesty, and service is disappearing at an alarming rate as well. That's why I went with Mike, thats why I had no qualms picking up a spool of cable from Ryan, I had Kent whip me up a box because, I frankly don't have the time. Personality, service with a smile, and a good product at an honest price, with great customer service to back it up and a reputation that proceeds them., the only people out under these standards are the little independants it seems. There are several people on this forum I would/will give my buisness to. I think bigger companies and corp's tend to forget we are people. We become numbers and products become more geared for the "mindless" masses. Well, I have a mind, dammit!!!! Now, I buy what suits my needs from someone who can offer personall service. I was all set to buy DD subs, but when I emailed them, it took them longer to respond than it took me to find SS :P I was all set to buy RE mids, emailed them two weeks ago and still no response, Seas is looking mighty tempting right now as well as adire. How friggin hard is it to have someone who responds to the emails?????? Theres my 2 cents.

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As I find out secrets and "behind the scenes" info, I start to realize that although people say prices on raw materials are going up, I still can't believe the money they are making.  I know some drivers that cost $20 to make and disrtibute per unit, yet they sell for $150-$250.  Same with some amps.  It just boggles my mind.  Business is business yes, but I mean come on. 

I would love to open up an amplifier company with the quality of Zapco for half the price.  I'd still make a ton of money.  I just don't get it.  Are people really that greedy?

I hear ya and feel the same way as you.

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I would love to open up an amplifier company with the quality of Zapco for half the price. 

*cough* Zed Audio *cough*

But yes, I agree....it's crazy the killings some companies are making. What's more amazing is that it's not the low-end or even most midline companies.....it's the super duper high end products that are the worst. And yet, people are obviously paying the prices, because those companies are still in business.

I also agree with the lack of standardization. While there are "generally accepted" ways in which certain things "should" be tested, obviously not everybody is following them. Infinity and their sensitivity specs, Xmax #'s being "transposed" with Xmech, etc etc

I also think there is a general lack of knowledge by the "professionals" in the industry. I honestly think the most mis/uninformed are those who have scary title like "MECP Certified Installer". People see that and assume they know what they are talking about, when they are the ones who spew the most unintelligible statements. But, overall knowledge by sales/installation staff is severely lacking. And what makes it worse is that, rather than the manufacturer's help train this staff, they simply inform them on what to say about their products to increase sales. Rather than educate, they train them to sell on myths, snake oil and magic pixie dust.

Follow that is the lack of competent shops. Rather than push products that deserve to be sold, they design their sales floor and training programs to push and sell the products that simply have the highest markups and/or fringe benefits (better quantity discounts, etc etc). Not to mention the general lack of ability to demo/use/hear equipment at them before you purchase a product. Just a guess, but I'd say that most shops have less than 20% of their available products on display and/or available to hear/touch before purchase. Add to that the lack of competent sales staff, and how is the average consumer supposed to make an informed purchase?

Finally; Lack of inforcement of unauthorized sales by manufacturers. Many will still warranty unauthorized products even though it states otherwise on their website. All they are doing is undercutting their authorized dealer network and decreasing the willingness of the consumer to buy from authorized dealers. Why spend the time/money to purchase authorized if the manufacturer is taking away most of the "authorized" advantages. And, no matter how many "warnings" are on their website, I see hardly any manufacturers actually doing anything to combat/decrease unauthorized product whoring. All mighty dollar is more important. As long as more product is rolling out the door......

Actually; I do have one more: Lack of manufacturer support of competitions. Car stereo comps are dying, slowly but surely. Lack of interest and lack of support is killing them. I'd type more here, but I've already wrote a novel.......

[/soapbox]

highhorse.gif

:D

**Show of hands of how many actually read this entire post**

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I would love to open up an amplifier company with the quality of Zapco for half the price. 

*cough* Zed Audio *cough*

But yes, I agree....it's crazy the killings some companies are making. What's more amazing is that it's not the low-end or even most midline companies.....it's the super duper high end products that are the worst. And yet, people are obviously paying the prices, because those companies are still in business.

I also agree with the lack of standardization. While there are "generally accepted" ways in which certain things "should" be tested, obviously not everybody is following them. Infinity and their sensitivity specs, Xmax #'s being "transposed" with Xmech, etc etc

I also think there is a general lack of knowledge by the "professionals" in the industry. I honestly think the most mis/uninformed are those who have scary title like "MECP Certified Installer". People see that and assume they know what they are talking about, when they are the ones who spew the most intelligible statements. But, overall knowledge by sales/installation staff is severely lacking. And what makes it worse is that, rather than the manufacturer's help train this staff, they simply inform them on what to say about their products to increase sales. Rather than educate, they train them to sell on myths, snake oil and magic pixie dust.

Follow that is the lack of competent shops. Rather than push products that deserve to be sold, they design their sales floor and training programs to push and sell the products that simply have the highest markups and/or fringe benefits (better quantity discounts, etc etc). Not to mention the general lack of ability to demo/use/hear equipment at them before you purchase a product. Just a guess, but I'd say that most shops have less than 20% of their available products on display and/or available to hear/touch before purchase. Add to that the lack of competent sales staff, and how is the average consumer supposed to make an informed purchase?

Finally; Lack of inforcement of unauthorized sales by manufacturers. Many will still warranty unauthorized products even though it states otherwise on their website. All they are doing is undercutting their authorized dealer network and decreasing the willingness of the consumer to buy from authorized dealers. Why spend the time/money to purchase authorized if the manufacturer is taking away most of the "authorized" advantages. And, no matter how many "warnings" are on their website, I see hardly any manufacturers actually doing anything to combat/decrease unauthorized product whoring. All mighty dollar is more important. As long as more product is rolling out the door......

Actually; I do have one more: Lack of manufacturer support of competitions. Car stereo comps are dying, slowly but surely. Lack of interest and lack of support is killing them. I'd type more here, but I've already wrote a novel.......

[/soapbox]

highhorse.gif

:D

**Show of hands of how many actually read this entire post**

**raises hand**

i agree with you on the MECP thing, i have it and really all it means is hopefully you wont kill yourself or blow anything up while working in a shop

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(raises hand)

Well put. Squeak :domoslay: It always amazes me when I try to support local shops, their utter lack of knowledge and slap it in there attitude usually keeps me shopping online.

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As I find out secrets and "behind the scenes" info, I start to realize that although people say prices on raw materials are going up, I still can't believe the money they are making.  I know some drivers that cost $20 to make and disrtibute per unit, yet they sell for $150-$250.  Same with some amps.  It just boggles my mind.  Business is business yes, but I mean come on. 

I would love to open up an amplifier company with the quality of Zapco for half the price.  I'd still make a ton of money.  I just don't get it.  Are people really that greedy?

hey, you me and Dave Edwards could do some damage eh?

Steveo and Nick would help for sure

Add this guy to that list.\

And Squeak, I couldn't agree more, I have had that rant before. :lame:

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To branch off of finebar's post...

Customer Service, it IS there, but when will we see it ?

I see plenty of posts about people waiting and waiting for return emails.

Yet, nothing. A good way to keep someone "in" is to treat them with respect, even if they dont deserve it. Mike at SS has done a great Job at keeping us all "in". Hats off you sir

:bow28:

P.S

I read it squeak

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:P  I was all set to buy RE mids, emailed them two weeks ago and still no response, Seas is looking mighty tempting right now as well as adire.  How friggin hard is it to have someone who responds to the emails?????? Theres my 2 cents.

Just call. I have called and they pick up the phone.. 85% of the time/. :gift:

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:P  I was all set to buy RE mids, emailed them two weeks ago and still no response, Seas is looking mighty tempting right now as well as adire.  How friggin hard is it to have someone who responds to the emails?????? Theres my 2 cents.

Just call. I have called and they pick up the phone.. 85% of the time/. :gift:

Why? This is the age of the internet, people need to jump onboard. I am a field service engineer that spends 80% of time on the road. I am in the mountains and in the prarries away from cell service or working away in OR's in hospitals across 3 states and they tend to freak when you whip out a celly and the EKG machine starts jumping around erractically. I shoot out emails late at nite or early in the AM and just wish some of these guys would check every so often. When I do have time, I pick up the phone and call, but only to those who have responded to my inquiries via email first. If they have time to peck me out a little note, then I feel they may have the time to speak with me and I go from there. Even if it is a great product, no response = no sale period. There are a handfull of other products out there that are of the same calibre and someone else will steal me away just that quick. Undercover, I hope you found Zed's site, good, good, chit. I am patiently awaiting the 6 channel slated for this fall. He (Steve) responded very quickly to my e-mails and is a very personable guy. He has a nice sale coming this fall as a result. R U paying attention Ryan, looks like a good buisness plan is being laid out right in front of you :D

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(raises hand)

Well put. Squeak  :domoslay:  It always amazes me when I try to support local shops, their utter lack of knowledge and slap it in there attitude usually keeps me shopping online.

To be completely honest, I've tried to support my local guys. I ran my own website business for a year, and I can say that running One's own small business is not cake. I also understand that the local stereo shop's are a dying breed these days what with CC, BB, The Internet, and the shade tree tech.

My problem is the Price, Quality of craftsmanship, and Lack of knowledgable techs.

There are two shops in this area that I'll still spend money with. There are 11 "known" independants. The only reasons that I'll head to the shop as opposed to doing something myself is alarm/remote start & tint. I know both of the owners well enough to have been out to dinner on occasion with them... however their 'techs/installers' are mere idiots. A couple of them can bondo & paint like nobodies business, and there are three guys (combined) that I'll trust to wire something on one of my vehicles, or a friends vehicle. That's it. Jim (at Underground Autosound) had an Extreme dBDrag van back in 2001.. 175.6dB iirc, took home a few trophies... so Yes, he can get loud & is internet savvy. But at the same time, he wants to charge $200 to build a Dual 15" CRX box... all the while pushing some Niche Audio equipment down You throat.

That's not the way that they are going to survive.

What this industry lacking? Reasonable people. At all levels of the hobby.

R&D? Pffft, how many amplifiers are made by Chunglam? Or, how many driver OEM's are out there... 11? For 87 different name brands?

Marke-neering? A chain is only as strong as it's weakest link... in this hobby, marketing only has to be convincing enough to sell equipment to the most gullable person.

Distribution? RE, Adire, and many, MANY others are authoried dealers only... right? What about all of the unauthorized dealers out there? Hell, You can get Hifonics at MANY websites online... yet According to John of Maxxsonics: "There are only two online retailers". :jerkmeoff:

Installation? See above.

Sales? Word of mouth > all. Yet Word of mouth is subjective.... :huh:

Competition? I can point out at least 4 loopholes or shining examples of stupidity in every competitive organiztion.... more likely a a dozen examples. Not too mention that the average consumer (let alone the average retailer) has NEVER heard of these competitions now-a-days. As someone said earlier... these "are dying out", and by doing so, they are taking alot with them.

i've typed too much, I've got other things to read.

Sorry.

[/rant]

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BYW *raises hand*

now Who read all of the above?

and... Ryan, I'm down.

[/Nick]

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I :wub: Nick. Count me in on this venture, I have mad skills and and the ability to communicate :D .

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And Yes I read both rants, and could go off the deep end but have chit to do today.

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*raises hand to both rants*

while i'm no where near the technical guru's u fellows are (i gotta let my hands do my talking), u have both hit very solid points.

local shops...only one i'll deal with. and he's losing the one guy i totally trust to somebody in NC. but scott himself is the same caliber. and there are several in the area, but like as been pointed out...all they do is push the product that materials.

service...especially online. RE needs to take notes from Mike at SS. at the time i bought my rl-p i was considering teh xxx...never got a return email and i haven't looked back. when i got the xxx in the raffle and proceeded to say it wasn't God's gift to subwoofers, i got "e-yelled" at by RE's guy because i didn't pay nothing for it and shouldn't be bad mouthing a "gift", which i donated money for. oh yeah..i wasn't giving it enough power which would help it reproduce lower frequencies.

prices.....we drive them up. as well as all the unauthorized dealers that ppl buy from. even though the comps are slowly dying, the business is going strong. as more kids turn into driving age, it'll get even stronger. yet when u can buy a memphis m3 sub for about 1/3 of the price of an authorized shop..who cares about warranty. u can buy three subs for the price of one.

and i too could go on and on..but i believe the finer points have been touched. what needs to happen, with this great internet median is that all the ppl logged on, get together and let the manufactures know where we stand. will it work? naw..it couldn't get everyone together...

oh well...

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee :slayer:

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