Yet again, another gain and filters question(s)

[BanginGMC 23]

Hey fellow SSA members, tonight i am devoted to learn this to the fullest, so there will be a lot written.. and questions as i go along, big thanks goes out to ANeonRider because this is all based off his How To: Set your Amplifier Gain - SSA Car Audio Forum

(I'll be working at the thread for about 30min to an hour before posting)

THIS IS GOING TO HAVE QUESTIONS THAT ARE DUMB... but i need to ask them to get it clear and have no doubts.

To figure out what voltage you should set the gains to, multiply the RMS power of the amplifiers output by the impedance of the speaker, then find the square root of that number.

-- I'm going to be using:

PDX 4.100

Alpine Type R comps *4 ohm*

So my speakers will be 4 ohms.. so i need to multiply the RMS from the amp by the ohms of my speaker which is 4 ohms

Well... 100 x 4 = 400... square root of 400 is 20

So the voltage of my amp should be 20 volts

Okay, now we have that established. (20v)

-WHAT TEST TONE DO I NEED????

A. Below in yellow it says "Subwoofer volume control on the headunit and/or a bass knob set to the maximum before you set the gains on the SUB AMP.

1. But........ the same for front stage amp, right?

2. I am not setting the gain for a sub amp..... so i don't have to put the subwoofer volume to the max right? -- do i set anything in replace of subwoofer volume to max?

3. No bass knob with my amp

B. Below in yellow it says "Take the leads from the DMM and put them on the outputs from the amp"

1. On the PDX is says input -- same thing?

2. How do i touch the leads from the DMM to the outputs on the amp?

3. Can i put both leads on one output?

4. Or does it have to be on 1on1 -- 1on1?

C. Below in yellow it says "Set the gain so that the outputs of the amplifier equal the voltage you found above. This is a MUST."

1. What setting on the DMM should it be set too?

2. i turn the gain with a little screwdriver untill it reads 20v, right?

Setting the Gain(s)

To set the gain(s), you need two things:

--1. A DMM

--2. A test tone CD

---Now, to set the gain(s):

--1. Start the vehicle, and pop the test tone CD in the head unit.

--2. DO NOT hook up the sub(s) or speaker(s)

---Now, time to set up the head unit.

-----a. Car turned on.

-----b. If the loudest you listen to your music is 22/35 with bass @ +3 and treble @ 0 on, use those settings.

-----c. Subwoofer volume control on the headunit and/or a bass knob set to the maximum before you set the gains on the sub amp.

--4. Take the leads from the DMM and put them on the outputs from the amp.

--5. Set the gain so that the outputs of the amplifier equal the voltage you found above. This is a MUST.

[Kanaworm$ 292]

Set the DMM to AC volts and when setting your mid/high amp use a 1khz tone.

[kirill007 52]

Hey fellow SSA members, tonight i am devoted to learn this to the fullest, so there will be a lot written.. and questions as i go along, big thanks goes out to ANeonRider because this is all based off his How To: Set your Amplifier Gain - SSA Car Audio Forum

(I'll be working at the thread for about 30min to an hour before posting)

THIS IS GOING TO HAVE QUESTIONS THAT ARE DUMB... but i need to ask them to get it clear and have no doubts.

To figure out what voltage you should set the gains to, multiply the RMS power of the amplifiers output by the impedance of the speaker, then find the square root of that number.

-- I'm going to be using:

PDX 4.100

Alpine Type R comps *4 ohm*

So my speakers will be 4 ohms.. so i need to multiply the RMS from the amp by the ohms of my speaker which is 4 ohms

Well... 100 x 4 = 400... square root of 400 is 20

So the voltage of my amp should be 20 volts

Okay, now we have that established. (20v)

-WHAT TEST TONE DO I NEED????

A. Below in yellow it says "Subwoofer volume control on the headunit and/or a bass knob set to the maximum before you set the gains on the SUB AMP.

1. But........ the same for front stage amp, right? yes, set the control/EQ how it will be after you set the gains.

2. I am not setting the gain for a sub amp..... so i don't have to put the subwoofer volume to the max right? -- do i set anything in replace of subwoofer volume to max? If the HU only has a Sub out, then you need to put it at max, if it has a Front and Rear out, then you don't need to do that.

3. No bass knob with my amp No porblem.

B. Below in yellow it says "Take the leads from the DMM and put them on the outputs from the amp"

1. On the PDX is says input -- same thing? NO, you need to put it where you will connect you're subwoofer/mids or highs. Connect it to the speaker terminals.

2. How do i touch the leads from the DMM to the outputs on the amp? Just screw them in like you would do with the speaker wire.

3. Can i put both leads on one output? Don't know what you mean, but you need to connect it the same way as you will wire the subwoofer/highs and/or mids.

4. Or does it have to be on 1on1 -- 1on1? ?

C. Below in yellow it says "Set the gain so that the outputs of the amplifier equal the voltage you found above. This is a MUST."

1. What setting on the DMM should it be set too?On the AC voltage setting.

2. i turn the gain with a little screwdriver untill it reads 20v, right?Yes, if you hear some distortion, but i don't think it will be the case with the PDX, you need to back it down till you don't hear any distortion. But it's not neccesary for you.

Setting the Gain(s)

To set the gain(s), you need two things:

--1. A DMM

--2. A test tone CD

---Now, to set the gain(s):

--1. Start the vehicle, and pop the test tone CD in the head unit.

--2. DO NOT hook up the sub(s) or speaker(s)

---Now, time to set up the head unit.

-----a. Car turned on.

-----b. If the loudest you listen to your music is 22/35 with bass @ +3 and treble @ 0 on, use those settings.

-----c. Subwoofer volume control on the headunit and/or a bass knob set to the maximum before you set the gains on the sub amp.

--4. Take the leads from the DMM and put them on the outputs from the amp.

--5. Set the gain so that the outputs of the amplifier equal the voltage you found above. This is a MUST.

[BanginGMC 23]

Hey fellow SSA members, tonight i am devoted to learn this to the fullest, so there will be a lot written.. and questions as i go along, big thanks goes out to ANeonRider because this is all based off his How To: Set your Amplifier Gain - SSA Car Audio Forum

(I'll be working at the thread for about 30min to an hour before posting)

THIS IS GOING TO HAVE QUESTIONS THAT ARE DUMB... but i need to ask them to get it clear and have no doubts.

To figure out what voltage you should set the gains to, multiply the RMS power of the amplifiers output by the impedance of the speaker, then find the square root of that number.

-- I'm going to be using:

PDX 4.100

Alpine Type R comps *4 ohm*

So my speakers will be 4 ohms.. so i need to multiply the RMS from the amp by the ohms of my speaker which is 4 ohms

Well... 100 x 4 = 400... square root of 400 is 20

So the voltage of my amp should be 20 volts

Okay, now we have that established. (20v)

-WHAT TEST TONE DO I NEED????

A. Below in yellow it says "Subwoofer volume control on the headunit and/or a bass knob set to the maximum before you set the gains on the SUB AMP.

1. But........ the same for front stage amp, right? yes, set the control/EQ how it will be after you set the gains. Okay nice

2. I am not setting the gain for a sub amp..... so i don't have to put the subwoofer volume to the max right? -- do i set anything in replace of subwoofer volume to max? If the HU only has a Sub out, then you need to put it at max, if it has a Front and Rear out, then you don't need to do that. So... ONLY if it ONLY has SUB OUT then i put it on MAX but my H/U has all those settings and shit so i leave everything how i would want it forever

3. No bass knob with my amp No porblem. okay nice

B. Below in yellow it says "Take the leads from the DMM and put them on the outputs from the amp"

1. On the PDX is says input -- same thing? NO, you need to put it where you will connect you're subwoofer/mids or highs. Connect it to the speaker terminals. Ooohhhh! i thought it ment where the RCAs go in... im an idiot lol

2. How do i touch the leads from the DMM to the outputs on the amp? Just screw them in like you would do with the speaker wire. do you think it will fit? hmmmm, probably, there skinny as fuck.. i just hope it stays in nice

3. Can i put both leads on one output? Don't know what you mean, but you need to connect it the same way as you will wire the subwoofer/highs and/or mids. thanks for clearing this up for me

4. Or does it have to be on 1on1 -- 1on1? ? thought i had to touch each lead to each RCA input.. i am an idiot

C. Below in yellow it says "Set the gain so that the outputs of the amplifier equal the voltage you found above. This is a MUST."

1. What setting on the DMM should it be set too?On the AC voltage setting. I have my DMM next to me and idk what the AC voltage looks like, theres a V~ 200m, 2, 20, 200, 1000 and a V- 700, 200, 20, 2 and A~ 20, 200m and A- 2m, 20m, 200m, 20 and F 20u, 2u, 200n, 20n, 2n, and HZ 20k then the OHMS 200, 2k, 20k, 200k, 2m, 20m

2. i turn the gain with a little screwdriver untill it reads 20v, right?Yes, if you hear some distortion, but i don't think it will be the case with the PDX, you need to back it down till you don't hear any distortion. But it's not neccesary for you. Wait.. the speakers are unplugged while setting the gain correct?, so i set it so 20V then hook my shit up, then if there is some distortion i have to turn the gain down a bit, resulting in a little under 20V?

Setting the Gain(s)

To set the gain(s), you need two things:

--1. A DMM

--2. A test tone CD

---Now, to set the gain(s):

--1. Start the vehicle, and pop the test tone CD in the head unit.

--2. DO NOT hook up the sub(s) or speaker(s)

---Now, time to set up the head unit.

-----a. Car turned on.

-----b. If the loudest you listen to your music is 22/35 with bass @ +3 and treble @ 0 on, use those settings.

-----c. Subwoofer volume control on the headunit and/or a bass knob set to the maximum before you set the gains on the sub amp.

--4. Take the leads from the DMM and put them on the outputs from the amp.

--5. Set the gain so that the outputs of the amplifier equal the voltage you found above. This is a MUST.

.. i am amazed by your help, thank you so much to take the time to answer my questions like you did.. i need different colors to read and understand fully easy (ADD shit FTL)

[kirill007 52]

2. I am not setting the gain for a sub amp..... so i don't have to put the subwoofer volume to the max right? -- do i set anything in replace of subwoofer volume to max? If the HU only has a Sub out, then you need to put it at max, if it has a Front and Rear out, then you don't need to do that. So... ONLY if it ONLY has SUB OUT then i put it on MAX but my H/U has all those settings and shit so i leave everything how i would want it forever Yes.

2. How do i touch the leads from the DMM to the outputs on the amp? Just screw them in like you would do with the speaker wire. do you think it will fit? hmmmm, probably, there skinny as fuck.. i just hope it stays in nice Just screw them (a bit) tight, not really a problem if they fall out, just stick them back in.

1. What setting on the DMM should it be set too?On the AC voltage setting. I have my DMM next to me and idk what the AC voltage looks like, theres a V~ 200m, 2, 20, 200, 1000 and a V- 700, 200, 20, 2 and A~ 20, 200m and A- 2m, 20m, 200m, 20 and F 20u, 2u, 200n, 20n, 2n, and HZ 20k then the OHMS 200, 2k, 20k, 200k, 2m, 20m Use the V~200, then just turn it up till you see 20.0v

2. i turn the gain with a little screwdriver untill it reads 20v, right?Yes, if you hear some distortion, but i don't think it will be the case with the PDX, you need to back it down till you don't hear any distortion. But it's not neccesary for you. Wait.. the speakers are unplugged while setting the gain correct?, so i set it so 20V then hook my shit up, then if there is some distortion i have to turn the gain down a bit, resulting in a little under 20V? Yes, but you don't need to worry about it , their will not be distortion with that amp. Only with cheap underrated amps.

.. i am amazed by your help, thank you so much to take the time to answer my questions like you did.. i need different colors to read and understand fully easy (ADD shit FTL) no problem that's why forums are for.

Holy huge posts.

[BanginGMC 23]

Holy huge posts.

Yeah, we pretty much just rapped this thread hahaha

Okay, i have the gain down pat. I've book marked this page.

Now what about the other settings? -- how do i tune/set them?

I know for Sub Amps set the Subsonic filter around your port tuning and LP 80-100

I've tried looking on google for pictures so i know what filters are on the PDX 4.100, went through multiple pages untill i just gave up.

[kirill007 52]

I don't know a lot about the crossovers on full range amps so i can't give you advice on that.

[BanginGMC 23]

I don't know a lot about the crossovers on full range amps so i can't give you advice on that.

Shit

But thanks so much bro! You've helped me a lot, probably more then anyone on the forum so far. Big post FTW this should be stickied hahaha

kirill007 FTMFW!

Anyone else up that can help me?

[KU40 173]

Crossovers for you mids and highs are entirely driver and install dependent. Most of the time with mids the limiting factor is overexcursion, so what I do is turn the crossover up to 150 hz or so and start playing a song with pretty good midbass as loud as I would play, then slowly lowering the crossover until the sub starts receiving too much power and overexcursion ensues.

Subsonic a few hz below tuning frequency if you're using a ported box. Lowpass on sub just where it sounds good. You'll have to have it blend with the mids, and the lowpass on the sub and highpass on the mids are how you achieve that. You don't want a lot of overlap, such as sub xover at 100 hz and mid xover at 60 hz. Nor do you want a lot of underlap, such as sub at 60 and mid at 100. But many subs don't play midbass very well, so you'll have to take that into consideration as well. Most of the subs I've listened to don't sound too great above 70 hz, at least compared to a mid. So it will be a balancing act between what the sub can play effectively as well as how low the mid can play.

[jcarter1885 995]

Dont set your gains with a DMM for your interior speakers, use your ears please

[jcarter1885 995]

Give this a read also:

Amp gain for highs - SSA Car Audio Forum

[Sir-Lancelot 216]

I agree with jaycee. Don't see how it is even possible to set the amp you are using for muds and highs

[Sir-Lancelot 216]

DAMN PHONE!

I dont see how anyone can set gains with a MM for their highs. It's just not possible to do it correctly.

You are going to have to trust your ears. It's not that hard. Just be honest with yourself. If it sounds bad turn the gains down.

[BanginGMC 23]

Crossovers for you mids and highs are entirely driver and install dependent. Most of the time with mids the limiting factor is overexcursion, so what I do is turn the crossover up to 150 hz or so and start playing a song with pretty good midbass as loud as I would play, then slowly lowering the crossover until the sub starts receiving too much power and overexcursion ensues.

Subsonic a few hz below tuning frequency if you're using a ported box. Lowpass on sub just where it sounds good. You'll have to have it blend with the mids, and the lowpass on the sub and highpass on the mids are how you achieve that. You don't want a lot of overlap, such as sub xover at 100 hz and mid xover at 60 hz. Nor do you want a lot of underlap, such as sub at 60 and mid at 100. But many subs don't play midbass very well, so you'll have to take that into consideration as well. Most of the subs I've listened to don't sound too great above 70 hz, at least compared to a mid. So it will be a balancing act between what the sub can play effectively as well as how low the mid can play.

So with my mids i do the following:

0. Have car on.

1. Take it from the top and set my Crossover to 150hz.

2. Put a CD in with good Mid bass.

3. Turn listening volume to them Max i play on a regular biases.

4. Then lower the Crossover setting untill the Mid Bass Speaker is getting too much Excursion.

5. Once the Mid Bass Speaker is getting too much Excursion start turning the Crossover higher so the sub isn't getting too much excursion.

Sound about right?

As of now though i have no Sub(s) so blending isn't an issue though but i do appreciate you taking the time to help me.

Give this a read also:

Amp gain for highs - SSA Car Audio Forum

I didn't see this, thank you i will read it today. i have read this before, thought you posted a official how to

DAMN PHONE!

I dont see how anyone can set gains with a MM for their highs. It's just not possible to do it correctly.

You are going to have to trust your ears. It's not that hard. Just be honest with yourself. If it sounds bad turn the gains down.

Really? Is it because mids and high play at such a high freq.?

Is there a certain order i should tune my PDX4.100 at? Gain, then HP, then LP?

Edited April 11, 2010 by BanginGMC

[Sir-Lancelot 216]

With your comps, I would set the HPF at 80 same for the LPF on your subs. This is always a good starting point.

I just don't see how a single test tone and a DMM can tell you more then your ears can. There is too much going on up front for that. Subs play (-) this much of the music and your comps are playing (----------------------) this much. How can a single test tone and a DMM cover all that? It cant. Music has peaks and when it does I will bet the farm it will clip your amp and sound like shit.

Set the gains on your Alpine with the subs off so you can really hear whats going on with your components.

The highs and vocals will sound harsh and become sibilant. Really listen to the vocals, if they are breaking up they are telling you to back off the gain. This calls for you to be completely honest with yourself. If they sound bad turn the gain down until they sound good again at a high volume. They should sound just as clear and crisp as they did at a moderate volume only louder. Don't try to fool yourself. If it sound bad turn it down. If you experiment and really listen your speakers will tell you exactly what is going on.

If you need more volume buy more efficient speakers or buy a larger amp.

[jcarter1885 995]

With your comps, I would set the HPF at 80 same for the LPF on your subs. This is always a good starting point.

I just don't see how a single test tone and a DMM can tell you more then your ears can. There is too much going on up front for that. Subs play (-) this much of the music and your comps are playing (----------------------) this much. How can a single test tone and a DMM cover all that? It cant. Music has peaks and when it does I will bet the farm it will clip your amp and sound like shit.

Set the gains on your Alpine with the subs off so you can really hear whats going on with your components.

The highs and vocals will sound harsh and become sibilant. Really listen to the vocals, if they are breaking up they are telling you to back off the gain. This calls for you to be completely honest with yourself. If they sound bad turn the gain down until they sound good again at a high volume. They should sound just as clear and crisp as they did at a moderate volume only louder. Don't try to fool yourself. If it sound bad turn it down. If you experiment and really listen your speakers will tell you exactly what is going on.

If you need more volume buy more efficient speakers or buy a larger amp.

x2, if you want louder you have to pay for louder either by getting more power (clean power) or better equipment. If you dont have experience in listening for speaker distortion then play with an older pair of speakers you have lying around so if you mess them up it wont set you back.

[BanginGMC 23]

With your comps, I would set the HPF at 80 same for the LPF on your subs. This is always a good starting point.

I just don't see how a single test tone and a DMM can tell you more then your ears can. There is too much going on up front for that. Subs play (-) this much of the music and your comps are playing (----------------------) this much. How can a single test tone and a DMM cover all that? It cant. Music has peaks and when it does I will bet the farm it will clip your amp and sound like shit.

Set the gains on your Alpine with the subs off so you can really hear whats going on with your components.

The highs and vocals will sound harsh and become sibilant. Really listen to the vocals, if they are breaking up they are telling you to back off the gain. This calls for you to be completely honest with yourself. If they sound bad turn the gain down until they sound good again at a high volume. They should sound just as clear and crisp as they did at a moderate volume only louder. Don't try to fool yourself. If it sound bad turn it down. If you experiment and really listen your speakers will tell you exactly what is going on.

If you need more volume buy more efficient speakers or buy a larger amp.

Thank you for providing me with a starting point! but from there where would i go? Do i turn the HP filter up untill it distorts then turn it down a bit then turn the LPF down untill it distorts then turn it up a little?

About the DMM: i never used a DMM for my recent PDX1000, because i never took the time to break it down with someone like my friend kirill007 did. I have always done it by ear, i just figured an amp.. and every amp should set it with a DMM, but i stand corrected.

Thank you jay-cee and Sir-Lancelot

I am not the type of person who would lie to myself and think "no way my equipment can be this shitty, im not turning the gain down no more"

So only have the tweets and highs on correct?

[KU40 173]

Whoops on my last post I meant mid instead of sub in "until the sub starts receiving too much power and overexcursion ensues."

If you start from 80 hz with the highpass on the mids you can go either way. If they're overexcurting, either raise the HPF or lower the gain. If they are fine, you can either lower the HPF or raise the gain (provided the speaker isn't breaking up or at its limit).

[deernet 6]

Great thread, this stuff is really going to help me out when I set up my system whenever all my shit gets here. I ordered some XXX components today, they're going to be run off a P3002, they're 2 ohm components, so they'll be getting 150 watts a piece. So I guess I'll start off with setting the gains on my T1500-1 with a DMM, with the crossover at 80, and also set the crossover at 80 on the P3002, but adjust the gains by ear?

[KU40 173]

That's what I've always done.

[///M5 2,833]

Bangin' this is easier than you are making it.

Set your sub gains.

Shut off your subs.

Set your midrange/midbass (lowest frequency driver of the group) via an Oscilloscope

Set you HP filter around 150Hz

Play music ONLY through the midrange/midbass and listen for struggling speakers. Slowly turn down the HP until your speakers start to have issues. Realize you can have more output at higher frequencies & gain with a higher HP.

Once you've settled on a HP and gain for the mids then with ONLY the mids and tweets on set the gains for the tweets by ear to match them to the mids.

*all boost, all eq, all t/a, all everything else should be set to neutral*

**if this is for a passive set then you have no gain for the tweeters, but I'd still set the gain with the mids only. After setting it for the mids, connect the tweeters only and listen to them alone to make sure they aren't struggling at where you set the gains**

***for gain matching if you are running active you'll also have to set your HP for the tweeter the same way as you did the mid, although I will add that regularly and hopefully running it at a higher point could be better***

Listening to EACH type of driver on its own is really important in this procedure. If they sound like hell alone, it will only get worse once you add more.

Great thread, this stuff is really going to help me out when I set up my system whenever all my shit gets here. I ordered some XXX components today, they're going to be run off a P3002, they're 2 ohm components, so they'll be getting 150 watts a piece. So I guess I'll start off with setting the gains on my T1500-1 with a DMM, with the crossover at 80, and also set the crossover at 80 on the P3002, but adjust the gains by ear?

That is a disadvantage, not a benefit. I really hate that they sell comps rated like that.

[BanginGMC 23]

Yes, but i break it down and try to grasp every aspect of the situation.

Hopefully this thread can help others as it helped me

I'll be back if i run into any problems.

Special Thanks Goes Out Too

kirill007

oldskool_08

KU40

jay-cee

Sir-lancelot

///M5