Linear Power & Blues Car Audio

[Randal Johnson 544]

I'm not going away from my 2.2 ...

I didn't think it mattered what Linear Power amp you used ... As long as you had one or a few ...

[6APPEAL 7]

What does your system consist of 6APPEAL?

2005 Chevy 2500HD Crew Cab

Headunit - Alpine IVA-W505

X-over, EQ - Alpine PXA-H701 (processing is OFF, very little eq used)

Front end - Blues BL6.5C - 6 1/2 in very well prep'ed door factory location, tweeter off axis on A-pillar

Front end amp - LP DPS500

Rear fill - Alpine SPX-17Pro woofer in very well prep'ed door factory location, turned down so low can't be heard except when sitting in rear seats.

Rear fill amp - LP DPS200

Sub - Blues BL10 - Custom center console enclosure that replaces the factory jump seat, 1.1 cu ft, ported @ 27 Hz

Sub amp - LP DPS200 - soon to be a LP DPS350

My truck and Rich's truck are the same in front of the B-pillar (doors, pillars, dash, etc.). And since I live about a mile from Ray, and Rich and I have been friends for 25+ years, my truck is used for testing set-ups and comparing changes. When it gets dialed in in my truck, the changes are made to Rich's. There are slight differences to the sound of our trucks, but they are so close it's.... The differences comes down to a Crew Cab vs a Regular cab and the sonic differences between the Kenwood Rich runs and the Alpine I have. Rich's install is nicer than mine, but he's going to shows, I'm the testbed. I'll do some cleanup before USACi Nats.

John

I had always heard the 2.2HV was suppose to be "THE" amplifier from LP for front stage being the reason they seem to sell for so much and are highly sought after. It surprises me that you guys are all switching over to the DPS500. Is it really that much better?

I know there was a DPS500 on ebay recently for $450-500, while the 2.2HV's sell in the $600-800 range.

Originally the HV amps were to be had for the "low" power rating (2.2 = 25 watts, 3.2 = 50 watts, 4.1 = 75 watts), making them excellent cheater amps when wattage was used as a class delimiter. Pretty much a mute point in SQ contest these days since there are no "power" classes. In comparing the 2.2 HV and the DPS500, the 2.2 HV amps make a bit more power stereo (mono the HV wins big), but the DPS500 has a better sound (just a bit). But, in reality you couldn't go wrong with either amp. I've always had the DPS amps in my system. Can't wait for the new LP's Ray is working on to come out.

John

[jimmy2345 0]

I think actions speak louder than words. If you guys are running the DPS500...there is certainly a reason for it.

[sq_mgb 21]

This is why I switched....

Reason 1. I first ran the 2.2HV's because I didn't have a second DPS500 that matched. When I found that the DPS500and the DPSQ50 heatsinks were interchangable, I had Ray swap heatsinks for me to make them match since I had a Q50 that matched my first DPS500.

Reason 2. The DPS500 "sound" is just ever so slightly better because of the preamp section in the amp.

Reason 3. There was just a little less current draw from the DPS500 as opposed to the 2.2HV. Not much, but every little bit helps.

Reason 4. The heatsink was a little shorter in height (2.75" instead of 3") and it gave me another 1/4" of space behind the seat to get the seat position better for judging.

That's why I switched mine out. If I had another vehicle to build that had more room AND had the alternator to keep up with current demand from the amps, I would use them in a heartbeat. I have a pair of 3.2HV's that sit in my closet because I don't want to have to make the modifications to run them in any of the vehicles I drive on a daily basis.

Hope that explanation helps....if you want to know more, just ask.

[sq_mgb 21]

PS....

The majority of shows I have won, including the regional event at NW Audio in Platte City, MO were won with the 2.2HV's in the truck. I have only been to three shows with the DPS500's, the other FOURTEEN shows were done with the 2.2HV's. So I wouldn't call them substandard by any stretch. The 2.2HV is a darn good amplifier, I just need every little bit of room behind my seat I can get.

The sound of the amps is so close you're splitting hairs comparing them, in my opinion you won't go wrong with EITHER amp. You can see from my signature that I'm going to use one in my Nissan on the front stage, and I wouldn't run it if I didn't believe in it.

[jimmy2345 0]

PS....

The majority of shows I have won, including the regional event at NW Audio in Platte City, MO were won with the 2.2HV's in the truck. I have only been to three shows with the DPS500's, the other FOURTEEN shows were done with the 2.2HV's. So I wouldn't call them substandard by any stretch. The 2.2HV is a darn good amplifier, I just need every little bit of room behind my seat I can get.

The sound of the amps is so close you're splitting hairs comparing them, in my opinion you won't go wrong with EITHER amp. You can see from my signature that I'm going to use one in my Nissan on the front stage, and I wouldn't run it if I didn't believe in it.

Still, as you stated earlier you just won the last show with the DPS500's and the judge stated numerous improvements just from swapping amps. You can't be splitting too many hairs to see that kind of improvement. I am just surprised that another amp (not even a new model) is clearly beating out the 2.2HV after so many years of the 2.2HV being hyped.

[sq_mgb 21]

As was stated before, both amps are great and will do well for getting good sound from your system. The preamp section in the DPS500 is a little better than the 2.2HV. It has slightly better channel seperation and slightly better S/N ratio. I believe this is why my soundstage got a little wider and deeper, or at least I assume so. That and also being able to push the seat farther back helped as well.

When my seat contacts the amp, that's as far as I can go in my cab. With the 2.2HV, my seat would stop waaaay before it does now. By getting another 1/4" of room because of the shorter height, AND with the different profile of the heatsink AND with the amp being shorter in length, I was able to mount the amp lower on the amp rack which allowed me to push the seat farther back. All of that COMBINED allowed me to make a better soundstage and get the listener in the "sweet spot" so to speak. I believe those COMBINED things is what the judge heard and commented on.

The 2.2HV is still one of the best amps out there in my opinion for driving a front stage or subwoofers cleanly. Is it the "best" amp there is? Who knows? Depends on who you ask. I like it and I like my DPS500 the same. The DPS amp allows me to put the seat in a better listening position so I can be more in the sweet spot and have better imaging and staging.

John has never had the 2.2HV in his system so he can't compare the amps directly. When he and Ray got to talking about the amps, I think one of them made comment on the profile of the amp being shorter and we decided to try it to see what would happen. That's why they were changed. Nothing more to read into it than that.

If you have any more questions about the amps, I am more than happy to try to answer them for you.

[jimmy2345 0]

Couldn't you have just moved your amps down if moving your seat back was what you were trying to acheive? I remember looking at your build log awhile back and you had your amps mounted up quite high.

[sq_mgb 21]

Couldn't you have just moved your amps down if moving your seat back was what you were trying to acheive? I remember looking at your build log awhile back and you had your amps mounted up quite high.

When I built this truck I was in the learning stage. I knew NOTHING about making a competition vehicle or the little things that count. I'm not a pro installer, I'm just a guy who likes good sound and decided to try his hand at going to shows.

On the first wall I built, I was trying for something that looked good that I was capable of building. I think I achieved that goal. At the time, I knew nothing of seat position or why it mattered. When I built the second wall, I took what I had learned from the scoresheets and applied it to the rebuild. I moved the amps down as far as I could, but there is a hump that runs across the back of the truck, and a ridge that runs across the truck about 14" or so above that. When your amp is 12" long and you are trying to squeeze it in a 14" space, you're kinda limited in placement.

I put in the DPS500 simply because I could move the amp farther down without having to rebuild the back wall AGAIN. If I put the 2.2HV on it's side, it's still 1/2" taller than the DPS500, AND I would have to put it into an enclosure and fan cool it because the heatsinks would be horizontal instead of vertical and wouldn't be as effective at cooling. By the time I add the enclosure (hmmm, let's see....9.5" for amp, 1" on each side for air flow, another 1" for mdf box, that's 11.5") I only gain 1/2" over what I had. Not really worth it in my opinion, not to mention the extra height for the enclosure over the heatsink. By contrast, the DPS500 is 9" long, fits in the same space, fins are still vertical for cooling, I don't have to build another rear wall....do I really have to qualify my decision any more??

There is NOTHING extraordinary about it....John runs the DPS500 simply because he has them and doesn't have a matching pair of 2.2HV's as far as I know. I run them because they allow me to put the amps into a position that allows me to better position the listener into the sweet spot and to be quite honest, I don't want to rebuild the whole freaking truck again. I'm not sure why this has all of a sudden become an issue??

I understand that for years the 2.2HV has been touted as the SQ amp in the line. In our opinion, the DPS500 sounds as good and fits the space we have better. Randle (Cableguy) still runs the 2.2HV in his truck and for his install it works, and works well. In Biloxi at Scrapin' the Coast, he beat me by one point in SQ. I guess we'll find out at finals if changing the amps really made any difference. He and I won't be in the same class, but we can still compare sheets to see how we score. I attribute the better scoring in my truck to being able to get the seat in a better position, NOT the amplifier. Sorry if it sounded like the amp made the difference in sound all by itself. I guess I should have been more clear and apologize if my previous post was misleading in any way.

[jimmy2345 0]

I understand.

Have you ever thought of upgrading your headunit to something more sq oriented. I am sure your deck sounds fine but there are better sq decks out there from yesteryear.

[Randal Johnson 544]

I think actions speak louder than words. If you guys are running the DPS500...there is certainly a reason for it.

We run Linear Power amps, not just one model. I run the 2.2hv, Herman and TJ runs the 1752/2202 on their front stage. Install is a major key for different applications.

Ray is the mastermind for the amps. You need to meet up with us at finals and hear these setups for yourself ...

[sq_mgb 21]

I understand.

Have you ever thought of upgrading your headunit to something more sq oriented. I am sure your deck sounds fine but there are better sq decks out there from yesteryear.

I had a Sony CDX-C910 I was going to use in this install. Unfortunately it died when I installed it. I heard it power up, but had no display and the face would not go up or down. I used an Alpine CDA-7894, but it never sounded quite right, plus I got a good price on the Kenwood (thanks Carmil and Car-Fi!) and since I wanted Bluetooth I went with it. The truck was a learning tool. I'll go all out on the Altima when I do it, but right now funds are tight and I just don't have the money to do another one right now.

I would like to find a Pioneer 880, Alpine 7909, Clarion DRZ-9255 or something similar in quality, but it would have to be in a price range I can afford. I still look on feesbay and maybe one day I'll get lucky and find something in the range I'm looking for. For now, this one does everything I want and more. I don't use any time alignment, DSP, or anything like that. I use the front outputs only and run them into the PA-II and from there to the XO-3 and then to the amps. Pretty simple setup. A 7909 or similar would fit the bill nicely, but I haven't had much luck locating one in a price that's not going to get me killed by my girlfriend. I've been informed her car is next since I've done two of mine AND her son's, and her's is still stock! Keep momma happy and she keeps me happy!

Jimmy, are you going to finals? I would love to show you the truck and why I did things the way I did. I find it difficult to explain over a forum the "why" part of why I do things, it's just easier for me to show someone and let them decide for themselves if it worked or not. There is no trickery involved with any of our (mine, John's, Randle's, TJ's, Herman's or Ray's) installs, just solid equipment, maximization of the environment (ie, sound damping / proofing), good speaker aiming and lots of listening and experimenting to see what works in each of our vehicles. Unfortunately, (or fortunately in my case, thanks John!!) most of us have trucks except for Ray, which is why we are trying to get Kim's HHR and my Altima going for next year.

I look forward to seeing you at a show someday, as I would like to listen to your vehicle as well. I know you like Linear Power, or at least you seemed to on DIYMA. I can't remember what you ran in your personal vehicle, but I'm sure it sounds great.

[jimmy2345 0]

I think actions speak louder than words. If you guys are running the DPS500...there is certainly a reason for it.

We run Linear Power amps, not just one model. I run the 2.2hv, Herman and TJ runs the 1752/2202 on their front stage. Install is a major key for different applications.

Ray is the mastermind for the amps. You need to meet up with us at finals and hear these setups for yourself ...

True, we know LP amps are all great. BUT, lets not fool ourselves. There are a few that really shine which is what this convo is about.

[jimmy2345 0]

Jimmy, are you going to finals? I would love to show you the truck and why I did things the way I did. I find it difficult to explain over a forum the "why" part of why I do things, it's just easier for me to show someone and let them decide for themselves if it worked or not. There is no trickery involved with any of our (mine, John's, Randle's, TJ's, Herman's or Ray's) installs, just solid equipment, maximization of the environment (ie, sound damping / proofing), good speaker aiming and lots of listening and experimenting to see what works in each of our vehicles. Unfortunately, (or fortunately in my case, thanks John!!) most of us have trucks except for Ray, which is why we are trying to get Kim's HHR and my Altima going for next year.

I look forward to seeing you at a show someday, as I would like to listen to your vehicle as well. I know you like Linear Power, or at least you seemed to on DIYMA. I can't remember what you ran in your personal vehicle, but I'm sure it sounds great.

Am I going to finals? Hell no. I am not interested in driving half way across the country to possibly win a plastic trophy. I live too far away. I don't need to see the truck in person to understand your choices. Most are self explanatory...except for the amp change of course.

Also, don't take my questions wrong. You seem to be getting agitated that I was asking your reasons for switching amps. I was just curious. As I stated before, it is surprising that there is another amp out there from LP that can meet, or surpass, the 2.2HV in SQ and most people don't know it. I surely didn't. I think if more people knew, the search for the 2.2HV wouldn't be as intense and most would be searching for the DPS500.

Edited September 29, 2010 by jimmy2345

[Aaron Clinton 2,372]

LP does have a dedicated forum too.

[Randal Johnson 544]

Jimmy, are you going to finals? I would love to show you the truck and why I did things the way I did. I find it difficult to explain over a forum the "why" part of why I do things, it's just easier for me to show someone and let them decide for themselves if it worked or not. There is no trickery involved with any of our (mine, John's, Randle's, TJ's, Herman's or Ray's) installs, just solid equipment, maximization of the environment (ie, sound damping / proofing), good speaker aiming and lots of listening and experimenting to see what works in each of our vehicles. Unfortunately, (or fortunately in my case, thanks John!!) most of us have trucks except for Ray, which is why we are trying to get Kim's HHR and my Altima going for next year.

I look forward to seeing you at a show someday, as I would like to listen to your vehicle as well. I know you like Linear Power, or at least you seemed to on DIYMA. I can't remember what you ran in your personal vehicle, but I'm sure it sounds great.

Am I going to finals? Hell no. I am not interested in driving half way across the country to possibly win a plastic trophy. I live too far away. I don't need to see the truck in person to understand your choices. Most are self explanatory...except for the amp change of course.

Also, don't take my questions wrong. You seem to be getting agitated that I was asking your reasons for switching amps. I was just curious. As I stated before, it is surprising that there is another amp out there from LP that can meet, or surpass, the 2.2HV in SQ and most people don't know it. I surely didn't. I think if more people knew, the search for the 2.2HV wouldn't be as intense and most would be searching for the DPS500.

You do know that Ray (TIPS) does modifications to just about all Linear amps. Are you talking about stock amps or modified amps ??? All of our amps has been modified. (no secrets) all the info can be found on www.linearpower.com ... If you know Ray as well as we do ... anything is possible.

[Randal Johnson 544]

LP does have a dedicated forum too.

You would'nt happen to have a link to that would ya ??? I'm there Bro !!!

[Aaron Clinton 2,372]

LP does have a dedicated forum too.

You would'nt happen to have a link to that would ya ??? I'm there Bro !!!

Haha, maybe: http://www.caraudio-forum.com/forum/forum/35-linear-power-blues-car-audio/

Was just mentioning it for people who were interested in LP specific stuff.

[6APPEAL 7]

I volunteered one of my C910's to Rich, but the season was so far along that it just did not make any sense to change. Also the older SQ headunits are getting tough to keep running. Parts have been discontinued and units are getting tough to find. There are folks hoarding both working and broken units. Count me as part of that group with multiple C910's and C90's.

I had planned on running matching 2.2's in my truck, but sold them to support my Buick habit. If you pay attention to the various LP's for sale around the net, you will see that most of them are pretty intense. I seen them go either cheap and quick or for good money. I've even seen and heard of some going for stupid money (think Apline F1 money). But most of the stupid money car audio stuff seems to be going overseas.

As with any product lineup from any manufacturer there are products that really shine and products that just fill out the lineup. Though filler is tough to find in the LP lineup. And old models will be 'ed out by new models as technology advances. But there will always be folks that are nostalgic for certain brands/models, like me and 5002's.

John

Edited September 29, 2010 by 6APPEAL

[jimmy2345 0]

I had planned on running matching 2.2's in my truck, but sold them to support my Buick habit.

....and chose not to sell the DPS500's. Hmmmm.

Edited September 29, 2010 by jimmy2345

[jimmy2345 0]

I volunteered one of my C910's to Rich, but the season was so far along that it just did not make any sense to change. Also the older SQ headunits are getting tough to keep running. Parts have been discontinued and units are getting tough to find. There are folks hoarding both working and broken units. Count me as part of that group with multiple C910's and C90's.

The C90's can be had on ebay in working condition almost weekly. As we all know, they ARE prone to display issues. However, there are various other great headunits from that time that can be had for less than $400-500. To say they are all old and hard to keep running is very untrue. Some yes. The 7909...of course.

Edited September 29, 2010 by jimmy2345

[6APPEAL 7]

I had planned on running matching 2.2's in my truck, but sold them to support my Buick habit.

....and chose not to sell the DPS500's. Hmmmm.

At the time the 2.2's were not installed in anything and perfect 2.2's were selling for $$$$. The DPS500 was pulling sub duty in one of my Buicks that was sold ( again!!!) some time after that to buy a nicer Buick. Next

[Randal Johnson 544]

Kawonu, I hope I was able to help you out sir.

you can also go to this link and ask questions ... http://www.caraudio-forum.com/forum/forum/35-linear-power-blues-car-audio/

[sq_mgb 21]

If I could find a working 7909 or Denon top shelf unit for the plus or minus $200 price I paid for my Kenwood, I'd be all over it. If you find one in good shape that works for that price, PLEASE let me know.

My choice of headunit was purely economic and time related. I had a show that weekend, my sony unit died. I had two days to get it installed. That's why the Kenwood is in my dash pure and simple. I have come to appreciate the bluetooth waaaay more than I thought I would, so it has stayed put.

If I can answer anything else, please feel free to ask.

[jimmy2345 0]

I would sell one of those 3.2hv's that aren't doing you any good in the closet and splurge on a really nice deck. The system can only improve with a true SQ headunit.