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CadillacMatt

The Nightshade Caddy

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Hey all !

I'm only about ankle deep in my new build... lol... well, I actually was hoping to get some preliminary advice from you guys, especially in the area of box design. So I'm trying to explore my different options for trunk setup this time around. The 18" Nightshade is a fresh recone done by Steve built to handle 3k daily, with heavy duty spider & tinsel leads among other things...

Here are some pics next to one of the old 15" Q's

IMG00228-20100722-1533.jpg

IMG00229-20100722-1534.jpg

Closeup of the tinsel leads

IMG00230-20100722-1535.jpg

My goal is simply to be balls-to-the-wall loud, of course. Not for SPL competition, but strictly for music. I really liked how low the Q's got off 7 cubes so my key points in designing the trunk setup will be to give the sub as much breathing room as possible while still retaining a little trunk space, and this is where I came up with two possible designs:

#1

The first design I thought about, this is viewing from the top. Sub back, port front config. The grey dotted line represents the spare tire well, it's recessed about 6 inches. The yellow dotted line is the rear deck. The box would be contoured around the wheel well.

idea1.jpg

This is the view from the back of the same setup. As you can see it utilizes the tire well for airspace.

idea1a.jpg

Now, I'm wondering how this would sound. If anybody has had experience with a setup like this please chime in!

#2

Sub up, port front configuration. As of this moment I don't know if this would be the most feasible option as Jon told me the excursion is pretty high on this sub, and I only have about 19" of clearance under the rear deck. Couple that with a double baffle and I don't know if it would all fit... lol... but here goes

idea2.jpg

Have a plexi window or something

idea2a.jpg

The rest of the build will be coming in the next few months so I'm going to be focusing on this for now... Shoot your ideas at me thanks guys!

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Sorry I guess it would be helpful to post a real pic of the trunk lol

DCP_0015.jpg

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Damn that nightshade dwarfs that Q. makes it look like like a 12 not a 15!

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OK after spending the better part of my day researching on Google... I might try a 4th order BP setup, aero-ported through the rear deck. After all the reading I did I could not find one single website that had a straight-up tutorial on how to build one, but I did find a few websites that were pure mathematical equations and theories so I guess my only option is to dig my Calculus book out and study like a schoolgirl.

If anyone has knowledge on the subject I am all ears, I am all about doing this 100% legit and correct, thanks!! :captain:

Another ghetto picture to explain. The little black circles are aeroports going through the rear deck

bandpass.jpg

Edited by CadillacMatt

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hey bro, i am on a similar mission with my new ride.......

i have no solid input at this very sec, other than to mention that the sub firing hard into the trunk lid might not be too cool....

the aeros through the deck is on my mind big time though.... have looked at that . a little

hank seems to build quite a few 4th orders, perhaps he could be of some assistance to you.....

how wide is your rear deck..... like from back of seat to glass..... also, are you willing to cut anything , or fold seat down?

good to see you around..... we play those couple of IAK demos from time to time that you made for us, thank you again, can't wait to get some more, lol!

chop

IAK

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I like the 4th order areo port idea. will be great for that car. I can't be of any help on the design end unfortunetly, but will be following along to learn.

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hey bro, i am on a similar mission with my new ride.......

i have no solid input at this very sec, other than to mention that the sub firing hard into the trunk lid might not be too cool....

the aeros through the deck is on my mind big time though.... have looked at that . a little

hank seems to build quite a few 4th orders, perhaps he could be of some assistance to you.....

how wide is your rear deck..... like from back of seat to glass..... also, are you willing to cut anything , or fold seat down?

good to see you around..... we play those couple of IAK demos from time to time that you made for us, thank you again, can't wait to get some more, lol!

chop

IAK

Thanks Chop glad to hear from you it's been a while! The rear deck is already wide open, with my last setup I had subs and port facing forward not sealed off but sounded killer.

DCP_0037-1.jpg

I like the 4th order areo port idea. will be great for that car. I can't be of any help on the design end unfortunetly, but will be following along to learn.

I was really looking forward to one as well, but it seems that nobody seems to know anything technical about this sub I have, and short of going out and purchasing precision audio measuring equipment to determine the T/S parameters of it building a bandpass would be a shot in the shit.

However, all that studying up I did will come in handy however, I figure the extra stiff suspension that begets greater power handling will allow me to design a larger-than-average ported enclosure (maybe 7 cubes or so) and tuning @ 32Hz... after plugging some numbers into WinISD things look promising, but then again I'm using the stock measurements for the sub.

Sooo basically what it comes down to is all I can do is build it and see what happens? Maybe I should stop thinking so hard.

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Matt the sub really isnt that much different than any other NS. it just has one more stiff spider. i keep hearing 3k daily but if its not set up right it will pop. just like a normal nightshade could take extra rms if done safley. i wouldnt throw extra power to it and build a huge box for it. you might be on a path for destruction and id hate to see that. just my two cents but i think you should stick with 2000rms and stay around 5 cubes.

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Matt the sub really isnt that much different than any other NS. it just has one more stiff spider. i keep hearing 3k daily but if its not set up right it will pop. just like a normal nightshade could take extra rms if done safley. i wouldnt throw extra power to it and build a huge box for it. you might be on a path for destruction and id hate to see that. just my two cents but i think you should stick with 2000rms and stay around 5 cubes.

But I thought you ran it in 6 cubes on an SAZ-3000D?

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Matt the sub really isnt that much different than any other NS. it just has one more stiff spider. i keep hearing 3k daily but if its not set up right it will pop. just like a normal nightshade could take extra rms if done safley. i wouldnt throw extra power to it and build a huge box for it. you might be on a path for destruction and id hate to see that. just my two cents but i think you should stick with 2000rms and stay around 5 cubes.

But I thought you ran it in 6 cubes on an SAZ-3000D?

I did.

For about 2 hours total in one weekend.

I just dont want you to go into this build with a false sense of security. thats it.

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Not sure if galacticmonkey is on this forum, but I know he has alot of experience with the 4th orders and he does designs for people. Just something to think about.

BTW, that 18" NS is sexy as hell!

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I did.

For about 2 hours total in one weekend.

I just dont want you to go into this build with a false sense of security. thats it.

Thanks Steve I hear you, I trust your judgement

Not sure if galacticmonkey is on this forum, but I know he has alot of experience with the 4th orders and he does designs for people. Just something to think about.

BTW, that 18" NS is sexy as hell!

Thanks, I have followed GMonk's builds for a while, he does know a hell of a lot.

All things considered, I might be better off just building a wide, shallow ported box @ 5-6ft³ and if I crunched my numbers right then I can have both the driver and the port facing upwards deep in the trunk, firing straight up at the hole in the rear deck. This would also allow me to build a "dam" between the cabin and trunk that would seal the trunk off. Loved the way my old setup sounded and it wasn't even sealed off, so I have high hopes. :shrug:

Edited by CadillacMatt

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of course the bigger the box the less power needed from my stand point.

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Matt the sub really isnt that much different than any other NS. it just has one more stiff spider. i keep hearing 3k daily but if its not set up right it will pop. just like a normal nightshade could take extra rms if done safley. i wouldnt throw extra power to it and build a huge box for it. you might be on a path for destruction and id hate to see that. just my two cents but i think you should stick with 2000rms and stay around 5 cubes.

True. I ran a stock Nightshade off my 3KD at .5 ohms for full songs and no damage at all, I took the coil out a few days ago and there is no damage at all to it.

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Commenced building of the box today. Outside dims 24D x 16H x 39W. Net volume will be around 6~6.5ft³.

Only thing I didn't pick up today was the PVC for the port. Going to do that tomorrow.

My makeshift workbench

IMG00238-20100731-1655.jpg

All sliced up

IMG00239-20100731-1814.jpg

Edited by CadillacMatt

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After doing a big of research and looking at the high price of PSP Aeroports (they don't even come in the sizes I need) I went to HD and picked up an 8" Sonotube and modeling clay. I'm going to build a mold for a fiberglass flared port :) here's a sneak preview

IMG00240-20100801-1303.jpg

That's all you get lol

Stay tuned

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Okay Okay one more

IMG00241-20100801-1312.jpg

Dora cups FTW lol

Edited by CadillacMatt

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Bonding the tube to the base is the first step to this mold. Cut the form in half to a length of about 24" (Only going to need 14.5" so I might cut it down again for ease of part removal). The top board is just there for pressure.

IMG00242-20100801-1325.jpg

Edited by CadillacMatt

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Whew... finally got the radius finished, I changed it three times before I was satisfied with it! Used the edge of a scraper for radius.

IMG00244-20100801-1410.jpg

IMG00246-20100801-1435.jpg

Now I'm going to let the clay cure a bit before glassing

Checking out the scenery in my parking lot lol!

IMG00243-20100801-1342.jpg

Edited by CadillacMatt

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looks nice i know this is gonna br good!

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looks nice i know this is gonna br good!

I know she stays right next door OH you mean the project lol ;)

While the clay was setting I made a jig for the speaker cutout

IMG00247-20100801-1525.jpg

And got busy with the jigsaw!

IMG00248-20100801-1537.jpg

Masked off the area around the radius for a smoother layup, I cured the clay a little too quickly which caused some cracking but it will be fine. You can use a little water to rewet it and if the cracks are big enough, you can mix some clay slurry, cure, and repeat as needed.

At this point I waxed the entire mold with my super duper high tech mold wax... or not, but this Meguiar's carnauba wax will do the trick for sure!

IMG00252-20100801-1630.jpg

Edited by CadillacMatt

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Looking good. :fing34: BTW, nothing like a woman who can fill her own antifreeze in the middle of summer. :)

Edited by onebadmonte

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Looking good. :fing34: BTW, nothing like a woman who can fill her own antifreeze in the middle of summer. :)

LOL yeah you are right about that!

Okay... well this is where I made one little mistake that could've very well cost me another day's work. I thought it would be a good idea to start off with the fiberglass chopped mat... BAD IDEA. For the flare I used woven mat no problem, but the chopped mat made a huge mess of things and plus it cured with hairs sticking out everywhere... I underestimated the cure time... so I'm going to have to bodywork quite a few voids.

Had about 3/4 can of resin, finished two plies and ran out. Stuff was curing quickly anyways. Will take a look at it tomorrow and see how many more layers (if any) it's going to need. I finished up with a ply of 1800 cloth (coarse thick cloth) around the tube.

Got paranoid; went ahead and taped the radius.

IMG00253-20100801-1647.jpg

Glassing the radius

IMG00254-20100801-1708.jpg

Oops! Always double-cup when you are using thin plastic cups! Better on the board then on me!

IMG00255-20100801-1712.jpg

Having a grand old time trying to get this stuff to hold. Will know better next time.

IMG00256-20100801-1722.jpg

Ahhhhh prune hands FTL!

IMG00257-20100801-1750.jpg

Second ply

IMG00258-20100801-1750.jpg

Aaaaaand done for now

IMG00259-20100801-1826.jpg

The only thing I'm waiting on is a buddy to lend me his long bar clamps so I can start putting this box together... can't hardly get ahold of him it's frustrating as hell! More soon.

Edited by CadillacMatt

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Quick update. Built sides of box, drill crapped out, even after 1 1/2 charging it was only good for about 3 more screws so I'm stopping for tonight. Satisfied with the box so far it's the best I can hope for with a jigsaw.

Oh, and might have an issue with port sitting flush to box due to depth, needs to be 20" long and the inside depth is 22.5". Might build some small MDF blocks to set port out from outside wall. More tomorrow.

IMG00260-20100801-2041.jpg

IMG00261-20100801-2052.jpg

IMG00262-20100801-2110.jpg

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