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SLOW build on a 2001 GMC Jimmy

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Cool, I wish I would of actually installed my first and only pair of Mach 5 MLI-65's I bought years ago. Cant wait to hear you thoughts on them.

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Score!

 

 

Fuggin win!

 

 

Cool, I wish I would of actually installed my first and only pair of Mach 5 MLI-65's I bought years ago. Cant wait to hear you thoughts on them.

 

 

Thanks guys!  With everything I've read about them over the years I'm looking forward to playing with them and seeing how they do.  The Bravox mids have surprised me at just how well they do.  It doesn't seem very common to me to find a mid from many component sets that can be felt in your chest.  I figure that if the Bravox mids are doing that good a real and actual woofer should be an improvement.  Plus, if the size specifications I found in an old thread on the forum here are accurate I shouldn't even have to modify the baffles on the doors.  So that's a plus too.  I went to install the Peerless HDS's I bought from hondakilla98 but I'm going to have to make a couple of 1/4" thick rings to adapt them to the baffles.  When the MLI-65's get here I will try them out first (cuz it's easier) and probably even try dropping in the Fountek FR88's as well to see what kind of improvement they make over the FE85's.  As always I'll report back my thoughts and findings.

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Score!

Fuggin win!

Cool, I wish I would of actually installed my first and only pair of Mach 5 MLI-65's I bought years ago. Cant wait to hear you thoughts on them.

Thanks guys! With everything I've read about them over the years I'm looking forward to playing with them and seeing how they do. The Bravox mids have surprised me at just how well they do. It doesn't seem very common to me to find a mid from many component sets that can be felt in your chest. I figure that if the Bravox mids are doing that good a real and actual woofer should be an improvement. Plus, if the size specifications I found in an old thread on the forum here are accurate I shouldn't even have to modify the baffles on the doors. So that's a plus too. I went to install the Peerless HDS's I bought from hondakilla98 but I'm going to have to make a couple of 1/4" thick rings to adapt them to the baffles. When the MLI-65's get here I will try them out first (cuz it's easier) and probably even try dropping in the Fountek FR88's as well to see what kind of improvement they make over the FE85's. As always I'll report back my thoughts and findings.

Bravox speakers have or at one point did have design input from Vance Dickason.

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Score!

Fuggin win!

Cool, I wish I would of actually installed my first and only pair of Mach 5 MLI-65's I bought years ago. Cant wait to hear you thoughts on them.

Thanks guys! With everything I've read about them over the years I'm looking forward to playing with them and seeing how they do. The Bravox mids have surprised me at just how well they do. It doesn't seem very common to me to find a mid from many component sets that can be felt in your chest. I figure that if the Bravox mids are doing that good a real and actual woofer should be an improvement. Plus, if the size specifications I found in an old thread on the forum here are accurate I shouldn't even have to modify the baffles on the doors. So that's a plus too. I went to install the Peerless HDS's I bought from hondakilla98 but I'm going to have to make a couple of 1/4" thick rings to adapt them to the baffles. When the MLI-65's get here I will try them out first (cuz it's easier) and probably even try dropping in the Fountek FR88's as well to see what kind of improvement they make over the FE85's. As always I'll report back my thoughts and findings.

Bravox speakers have or at one point did have design input from Vance Dickason.

 

 

That's awesome, never knew that.  While that may or may be a part of why the mid does perform so favorably in the bass/midbass department it seems like Bravox does or did do a lot more than the car audio speakers and for no more expensive than the set ran I would be surprised if they bothered to get his input on them.  They had much better lines to put his expertise into, specially considering the issues it had with response on the high end.  It sucked as a mid but is doing great as a dedicated midbass.

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Well, I got a chance to install one of the MLI-65's in the drivers side door.  I had to open up the mounting hole in the baffle a tad to get the basket on the MLI to mount up properly.  After that I jumped in and sat in the middle of the back seat for some A-B comparison listening.  I gotta say I have mixed feelings and I also have to say that for all the praise I've seen on the MLI's for their midbass capabilities I gotta hand it to the Bravox mids cuz they're right up there with the MLI's.  I didn't change any settings so they're both running bandpassed at 63hz to 300hz at 12dB slopes and I tried to position myself so there was as little variance as possible between listening to one and then the other.

 

The first thing I noticed is that the overall output is very comparable.  I also have to note that I don't think the 125.2 is enough power to feed the MLI's.  With the Bravox's on songs with a strong bass drum beat I can turn it up enough to make them run out of throw.  They don't bottom out the coil on the back plate but you can hear the suspension hit it's limit.  At the same volume level that causes that with the Bravox mids the MLI seemed to just be cruising without a care in the world.  It was moving like crazy but was completely quiet and distortion free while doing so.  Speaking of distortion, the MLI seems to have a great ability at being extremely low in distortion at the frequencies and levels I was playing it at.  I can get the Bravox to stress a little at high volume levels but the MLI just kinda laughs at me.  The one thing I'm noticing is that the Bravox seems to have a little more output above 100hz than the MLI while the MLI definitely has more output below 100hz.  Now, this is a guess and what I'm noticing by just listening, no measurement equipment to verify it so understand it's just my gut feeling here.  It almost seems as though the louder upper bass frequencies of the Bravox are a phenomenon of some harmonic distortion at high output levels at those frequencies.  When turned down a little the Bravox does smooth out some but still has more "presence" in the upper bass.

 

At this point I'm just a little torn by my findings on which I prefer.  I do believe I'm going to go ahead and do the modification to the passenger door and make a permanent installation of the MLI's for awhile and get some real listening time on them while getting them broke in and see if I feel like I'm have any detriments I can't live with compared to the Bravox.  If they happen to not work out I'm sure I can easily sell the slightly used MLI's on the forum.

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Little update.  The Mach5 MLI's are absolutely unreal for 6.5" drivers.  I'm about 100% sure I'm right about the harmonic distortion in the Bravox's making them seem louder.  After installing the MLI on the passenger side and getting them broke in they absolutely decimate the reproduction quality of the Bravox's without any noticeable difference in output besides the fact they definitely have stronger output on the lower frequencies than the Bravox mids did.  When playing Alice in Chains - Would for example, the bass guitar can not just be heard but felt throughout it's range, even in the upper registers.  At full tilt you can just about feel everything which has impressed many more than just me, lol.  I have a buddy who's a big heavy metal nut that's always asking to hear one song or another to hear the difference in it.  I've played The Zack Brown Band's Chicken Fried for a couple of different people and it scared them when they felt the string plucks of the guitar at the very beginning of the song, let alone the rest of it.

 

I also installed the FR88EX's I bought from Hondakilla98 into the little Logitech enclosures on the dash to see what kind of difference I could hear between them and the FE85's.  Now, don't get me wrong, the FE85's were absolutely amazing for their modest $13 price tag but the FR88's aren't coming out of the Jimmy until the fiberglass work to permanently mount the full rangers is complete.  Even then they're only coming out to be replaced with the next model up, the FR89's.

 

Today I also got the opportunity to drop the Soundstream Harmony in the Jimmy to start using it for processing instead of the capabilities of the CZ702.  I don't know how there's not more of units something like this more widely available than there is.  Sure, the laptop is a little gangly and cumbersome to have in your lap the entire time you're making adjustments but damn is it ever worth it.  I had only a couple of little problem areas that I couldn't quite adjust enough on the Clarion due to the restraints of the built-in DSP but they're about gone now.  The biggest issue I had was with the crossover for the midbass only being adjustable down to 630hz.  I had to use the LP crossover on the 125.2 to get it the rest of the way down to the 250hz region to blend properly with the FR's.  I still had some issues with some frequencies being a little "bloomy" near the crossover points on the top and bottom.  I couldn't get the crossover points and EQ to find a happy medium with it.  Thanks to the independent EQ's and the infinitely variable crossover frequencies the Harmony everything I've played on it so far is so much smoother than before.  It's really hard to tell where the beginnings and ends of everything lies now.  It's all blending better, sounding so much smoother, and that's only after a couple of hours of tuning.  I can't wait to spend more and more time with it dialing in every little thing until it's about perfect!

 

Overall this thing is sounding more and more ideal the more I work on it.  It's no SPL show stopper by any means but the way it sounds and FEELS when I'm listening to it is beginning to truly meet my expectations.  It doesn't do bad on output by any means, but when you hear and feel EVERYTHING and not just the sub bass at the output levels this thing is doing right now it's a whole different kinda loud.

 

 

Here's a few pics of the Mach 5 in the passenger door and the Harmony installed.

 

 

 

I gotta say, I don't really care for the look of the grilles that came with the Mach5's on my doors but I gotta have them protected and the grilles to the Bravox's wouldn't fit so I'm stuck with this for now.

 

 

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I was able to tuck the Harmony in behind the glove box.  It's a tight fit and takes a little push to get the glove box to close but at this point I don't really have any place else it can go very easily.

 

 

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AEACDCA9-0449-4CE5-89D9-28F907B1A924.jpg

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I loved the MLI's in the old SSA Civic test bed.

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That's awesome that the sound is starting to meet your expectations! Keep up the good work bro.

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I need to roadtrip soon....I can read this over a few more times....but I am left with just skimming. ..then thinking. ..gotta hear it in person.

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This is probably my favorite build on the whole site. Excellent job Alton =)

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This is probably my favorite build on the whole site. Excellent job Alton =)

 

Thank you, I appreciate it!  

 

All I need to do is build the fiberglass pods for the sail panels and stuff the SLS 8's into the doors to finish the drivers in it out.  Then a little reworking on the amp rack to hold a Crescendo BC2000 for the sub, PPI 900.4 or IA 6.4, and a Boston GT2125.  Then it will all be done.

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I wish I could hear this thing :P

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I wish I could hear this thing tongue.png

I hear ya!!!

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I wish I could hear this thing tongue.png

 

 

 

I wish I could hear this thing tongue.png

I hear ya!!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

If the opportunity ever works out I'd be glad to demo it to both of you.  I don't think it's very impressive on output, as a matter of fact the XCON in a standard ported enclosure would be louder than it is with the PR's.  I would be very surprised if it gets anywhere near 140dB in output, though I'll be finding out for sure around the first of the year.  It does sound pretty good though, I think it might get your attention in that respect.

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I am most certainly an SPL lover, but lately, satisfaction of a super clean, accurate system is very appealing.

Loud is easy in comparison to SQ imo

It's awesome to get lost in the music, hearing every intricate detail. The older I get, the more I seek from my material, not just to be swimming in a sea of bass lol

How would you compare the sound of the PR's to a standard ported, or sealed enclosure? (not sure if that's a good way to phrase the question, but maybe you know what I'm trying to say)

Edited by SpeakerBoy

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I am most certainly an SPL lover, but lately, satisfaction of a super clean, accurate system is very appealing.

Loud is easy in comparison to SQ imo

It's awesome to get lost in the music, hearing every intricate detail. The older I get, the more I seek from my material, not just to be swimming in a sea of bass lol

How would you compare the sound of the PR's to a standard ported, or sealed enclosure? (not sure if that's a good way to phrase the question, but maybe you know what I'm trying to say)

 

 

That's a fine way to phrase the question.  The simplest way to describe it would be that it's a 50/50 mix of both.  You get the low end extension and tuneability of a ported enclosure but with the "quality" of a sealed enclosure.  Trust me I really HATE to say it that way, but that's the basic description you'll find when you read on PR systems.  What that statement really means is that the PR setup has a better overall transient response than a ported alignment, very close to that of a sealed enclosure most of the time.  The PR's give the same basic response as you would hear from a ported alignment, a reinforcement of frequencies near the tuning frequency, which is where the low end extension comes from.  They're just about as close to the best of both worlds as one can get to the best of my knowledge.  The two biggest cons of the PR setup is that it falls between ported and sealed enclosure alignments for the same given driver in output.  It's louder than the same driver in a sealed enclosure but it's not as loud as that driver in a ported.  They're also more expensive because you have to buy the PR's along with the active driver.  I paid about $80 for each of the PR's to match the XCON.

 

All that being said, I love the response I'm getting from the XCON in this setup.  It has solid output down to around 25hz.  I've played tones on it down to 18hz at which point the sub and PR's are trying to exceed their mechanical limits at a relatively low volume.  Even at higher volumes the sub and PR's are fairly well composed at 25hz and up.  I had originally tuned the PR's for 30hz but I believe that with the sub and PR's both breaking in have lowered it a bit.  I've considered pulling the PR's to remove a little weight and put the tuning back where it belongs however I'm hesitant to do so because of the seal I have on the box.  You can push in on one of the PR's and hold it as long as you like and the sub/other PR won't move back in.  It's pretty much a perfect seal and I'm afraid I'll have problems with it if I open it up.  

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Well it's been quite some time since I've posted any updates on the Jimmy. That's not necessarily a bad thing though because it means I've not had any trouble or issues with anything that would require an update to the build log.

My only complaint has been with my Clarion HU. When I first got the HU I was carrying an iPhone 4 and life was gravy between them. However when I upgraded to my iPhone 5S it wouldn't connect with the HU. I assumed it was just a compatibility issue with the phone being newer than the HU even though my wife's iPhone 5 (not an "S") worked fine. So I used an old iPod touch for awhile and after trying it occasionally after an iOS update or a firmware update to the HU I accepted it just wasn't going to work. That is until my wife upgraded her phone to an iPhone 6 and it worked on the HU just fine. At that point, and because the power of the HU was being wasted with the Harmony doing all the processing and a little boredom, I decided enough was enough and I began to look for a replacement.

I really do like the Kenwood that's in the Traverse so I started looking at double dins and settled on the Kenwood DDX-672BH. It's the predecessor to the 771 that's in the Traverse with the addition of HDRadio and a few other very minor differences. I found one hell of a deal on it, ordered it and began modifying the dash and building custom mounting brackets out of 1.5" aluminum angle. It still looks a little bit ghetto but I'll pretty it up when I finally get around to fiberglassing the sail panels to mount the full ranges.

Here's a few pics of the process and how it finished.

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I know it looks rough but I'm happy. It works like it should and I don't have to carry around that stupid old iPod anymore, lol.

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I would of just got rid of the crappy ass iphone. Nice HU though

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lol, the HU was cheaper. I got it, new, for $238 shipped to the house. A new phone, iPhone or anything else, would be a lot more than that in the middle of the contract.

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