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4xforce

Need SQ tweeter suggestions

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So I am a noob here but have done my best to gather all the facts for others to help me with my predicament.

I recently pulled out my Boston Acoustics SPZ60's to install that I bought from my bro and found that one of the tweets and coaxial mounts were missing. We both looked around to no avail and now I'm left with buying new tweets and making a component style setup instead of the coax setup I wanted.

I have access to Clio sound testing equipment and tested the mid. It operates between 100-2k hz. This leaves me believing I need a tweet that will get at least close to 2k or I will have a big hole in my front stage. My vital info:

Tweets will be run off of channels 1+2 of a Zed Leviathan

Size matters. The smaller the better as I am putting them in the A pillar now. I may be able to fab a spot in the kick panel if necessary.

SQ is of top importance but I do listen to them at a moderate level for extended periods.

My budget is around $250. Could go a bit more if it was a must have item.

I listen to mostly rock and pop. Mostly live stuff such as Dave Mathews, Pink Floyd and the like.

I have considered Focal TN52's or 47's as I have heard Focals in home audio and they are quite impressive but I'm not sure how they would work in a car.

I have tried to give as much info as possible to help you help me. If I missed something please let me know. On a side note I had some garbage CDT tweets that were silk dome and they were smooth but not quite as accurate as I would want. I would rather attenuate a brighter tweet if I had to then want more from something not so accurate.

Thanks in advance. I am not up to date on most of the new technology or products on the market so I would appreciate some help from the Guru's

Cheers

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https://www.madisound.com/store/product_info.php?cPath=45_229_427&products_id=8654

I think I hit the nail on the head with this one. ^^Top notch SQ..

Nice! I have been cruising Madisound and have not seen those. Have you ever heard them? I have heard Scanspeak mid drivers and they are one of the best. Thanks

I've never heard those personally, but it's similar to the same tweeters used in Alpine's F#1 Status... If you have to ask what that is.. Lol just google it.

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Large format possible? What are you using for processing? How does your mid "sound" playing to 2kHz? Do you want to push it that high? Where are you mounting your mid? Will they be on axis or off or do you have the liberty of maximizing the install aiming based on how they sound. Do you have a textile/metal preference?

we need a lot more information before anyone can give you an educated response. Those Scan's maybe similar to the F1's but it is not the driver btw.

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Large format possible? What are you using for processing? How does your mid "sound" playing to 2kHz? Do you want to push it that high? Where are you mounting your mid? Will they be on axis or off or do you have the liberty of maximizing the install aiming based on how they sound. Do you have a textile/metal preference?

we need a lot more information before anyone can give you an educated response. Those Scan's maybe similar to the F1's but it is not the driver btw.

Well let me start by saying I had a feeling you might take exception to my post. I read another similar thread that became a pissing match because the OP didn't apparently offer enough information and I thought I had provided enough but I guess not.

I need to say that as much as I love my car audio stuff if I were trying to get the perfect sound stage and best SQ I would just go to listen to my uncles system with Pass Labs monoblocks, Krell preamps, vertical symmetricals, a 18"sub the size of a washing machine all tied together with custom Cardas wire etc etc. Perfect car audio systems are like trying to find the end of a rainbow. Ain't gonna happen and I know this.

With that said I will try to add a little to help with the question at hand.

Like I originally said size matters. The tweet needs to be small. Like a max of a 1-1.2 inch mounting depth. Basically the smaller the better.

The mid sounds fine playing to 2k. Starts rolling off at about 2.3-2.4k. It is mounted in the door in standard location far forward in the door. I have no desire to get into a 3 way system to cut this mid off any lower. The tweet will be placed in the door or kick panel and will be perpendicular in relation to the vehicle. Of course each channels degree of off axis will be different depending on which occupant we would be talking about. There is no possibility of a custom kick panel or mounting setup. The exception to this is the A pillar location which is angled inward about 30 degrees.This is going into a high performance vehicle where weight is a concern.

My material preference is just like every other SQ guy. I want my cake and eat it too. The clarity and precision of a high end metal tweeter with the warmth and ease of long term listening of top notch textile tweeter. :)

Do take some of my ranting the wrong way. You obviously have been in the industry for a while and have done your homework so I respect your opinion. I just have a tough time splitting so many hairs for car audio hence the rainbow chasing reference. I just want a high quality tweet that will blend well with this mid. Doesn't have to be perfect I just don't want to buy garbage.

Oh and sound processing is pretty much very very basic. The Eclipse HU has some processing capability and whatever I can get out of adjusting the Leviathan.

Thanks for your time.

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First off the pissing match is exclusively started when someone disrespects the forum. It is clear in the Terms & Conditions that there is information that should be relayed to make it an effective thread. Everyone who has had issue to this is too damn lazy to do enough research or reading to even know that. Your answer and post wasn't this way, but information was left out you didn't know was necessary. You then provided it in your post. That is more than fine :)

Curious to know what your Uncles Vertical Symmetricals have for drivers ;) **assuming they are speakers, not something I've heard of if its a brand.

Still curious on the large format. The mounting depth is independent of the format as this has to do with the flange.

For an SQ setup it is all about the driver, which was what I meant about the off axis. Most home audio drivers are designed primarily for on axis work so picking one that is appropriate for your needs we will have to take your door/kick mounting into account. Of course, this was related to my frequency response question as smaller diameter tweeters usually do better off axis. I am curious as to why the kicks won't be custom, don't you have to make them anyways? You also seem to say no to the A pillar but then offer it as a solution. If you go the A-pillar route knowing a bit more about your dash and vehicle would help as there are many that really stink for that application.

Luckily your weight concern isn't really an issue, no seat of the pants or measurable difference over 10lbs here or there.

Which Eclipse H/U do you have (or better yet what processing does it have)? Need to really know what it can do for processing to help as this will greatly influence both driver and location recommendations. They are COMPLETELY intertwined.

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Thanks for your reply. When I get off this damn iPhone and can type a little more efficiently I will give a full reply. Give me about 45 min.

Edited by 4xforce

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OK. So I hate to be the type of person who says "I know somebody that....." but it is my uncle and we are very close so I guess it's alright. The vertical symmetricals are not a brand of course they are tower type speakers for home audio. He has been building home audio speakers for many years for local folks and happens to be a hair splitting type of dude if you know what I mean. The towers consist of 2 10" Scanspeak Revelator woofers (either paper or aluminum), 2 Scanspeak 8545's, a Focal TC120 TDX totally reworked by him, custom crossovers built by him (about $500-700 in material each depending on what stage we are referring to), 1.25" phenolic laminate front and rear baffles and Cardas wire. They have ruined any chance of ever fully enjoying any other setup especially with the 18' McCully(sp?) sub. Dude! I have never felt lows like that in anything but live music. It's rather amazing.

Back to my topic. The large format thing has me thinking. The vehicle is a Mitsubishi Lancer Evo. Basically a lancer with 450hp and all wheel drive. The only options to me for the tweet seem to be 1) the stock plastic kick panel area, 2) the A pillar which has a small area already on the stock plastic trim where there was a stock tweet or 3) Coaxial mounted which is what I originally wanted. I have been in vehicles with custom kick panels and even though they sound good I have never been a fan of how intrusive they become especially on the drivers side in a manual tranny car. I thought if Q-Logic ever made kicks for it I might try them but they don't to my knowledge. I am not opposed to the A pillar idea but space there is really limited unless I surface mount something. I would like to try to stay away from the surface mount to keep the tweakers from spotting my system and wanting to take something back to their trailer if you know what I mean. I would like to add that maybe I could run something larger surface mounted to the stock plastic kick panel and something smaller in the A pillar. Thoughts?

The HU is an old Eclipse 8445 that is less than optimal I know. It does have a 7 band eq and time alignment for the front stage. Phase and crossover adjustment for the sub.

I hope this info is leading us in the right direction. I really appreciate your input and not totally flaming me. Cheers

Edited by 4xforce

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Crap, 8445 has nothing but all the ones around it have everything. 8454,8443, 8053, 8455 all carry crossovers yours doesn't. That is going to severely limit your SQ more than any drivers. Thought about selling it an upgrading? If not, I would highly suggest mounting the drivers as coaxial or close together as possible. Even then you might just be better off with a passive set.

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If it's not that much I would upgrade. My 8445 has been acting up lately so a replacement is coming sooner rather than later. Still no suggestions on a tweeter? I will check into the new HU. The crossover network on the amp would not have enough adjustment for this or am I missing the point?

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Any suggestion on other brands of HU's? Or other models than the ones you listed. I am having a tough time finding anybody that has those models.

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Huge fan of Seas tweets myself.

Have balls to cross lower and are very smooth.

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Any in particular that you were thinking of. I saw some smaller Seas but they were cheap and figured they were garbage.

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They have a 1" small format silk tweet that is pretty much my favorite tweet. Not sure of the model number right off the top of my head.

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They have a 1" small format silk tweet that is pretty much my favorite tweet. Not sure of the model number right off the top of my head.

That's the one I thought might be garbage I think. It's the Prestige 27TFFNC/G or H1396. It's only $33. I sometimes feel like how the he'll could somebody produce something that sounds good for super cheap. I could be wrong. My only problem is that Fs is 1170hz. If I dare cross it at around 3k with a 24db/oct slope it might hold up but I would like to know that I could cross the tweet a bit lower and still not blow it out. I believe the rule of thumb is 4 octave higher than a drivers Fs. And that would be 4500 for these small things. Far from the 2k I'm trying for. Something to consider I guess especially at that price point.

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The nice thing about Madisound and their prices is that most people can afford to find out that something won't work for their needs. It's too cheap to not take a chance on most of their equipment.. Anyway, if you don't try it, then how do you know if can or can't handle it??? Would be nice if there was always someone who tried something you are looking for so you can get an idea of what works and how well but shit sucks like that... I say buy and try but only if it doesn't break the bank... :eek5wavey:

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The nice thing about Madisound and their prices is that most people can afford to find out that something won't work for their needs. It's too cheap to not take a chance on most of their equipment.. Anyway, if you don't try it, then how do you know if can or can't handle it??? Would be nice if there was always someone who tried something you are looking for so you can get an idea of what works and how well but shit sucks like that... I say buy and try but only if it doesn't break the bank... :eek5wavey:

As a matter of fact I think that might be what I'll do. The cut out is the same for both the Seas and Scanspeak. Plus I found a place right next to the mid but in the kick panel that would allow me to mount them angled in about 45 degrees. I do appreciate everybodies input. If anyone else has ideas let me know. But for now it looks like I am gonna try to blow up some cheap tweets. :)

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That's the ones I'm picking up. Thought about the aluminum version for a minute but they don't seem to hold any advantage to these really. Cheap as can be and if they don't work out then oh well. Not much lost.

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That's the ones I'm picking up. Thought about the aluminum version for a minute but they don't seem to hold any advantage to these really. Cheap as can be and if they don't work out then oh well. Not much lost.

I'd disagree and between the two actually prefer the aluminums. I did side to side them only at Madisound and then have heard the metals in car.

Still not sure this is a good solution for you yet. Until you nail down your processing and locations I would really NOT buy a tweeter.

Pio 880prs, 800prs, Alpine 9887, are all active capable and newer.

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actually the leviathan can high pass and low pass on channel 3 and 4 from 80-4k and high pass channel 1 and 2 from 80-4k

edit: new hu would be better though

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Well my uncle gets a pretty fat Madisound discount so it's not very much out of pocket. I actually did decide on the aluminum ones after talking with him. I also took your advice M5 and found a place just in front of the mid in the stock plastic kick panel that would turn the tweet in about 30-45 degrees. I also got two of those LPG swivel mounts to aid me in finding the right orientation for them. Bottom line is I don't have a system at all worth listening to without tweeters and it's a bunch cheaper than getting a new HU. I will be sure to report back on the Seas tweeters next week. Getting them shipped 2day so it should be up and running by the end of next week. Thank you very much for the HU suggestions. I will check I to it.

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The log's are way better off axis.

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Thanks. I will keep that in mind. It would be great if the cheapies worked out.

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