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sandt38

My routine after cancer help with cutting after a bulk

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So as some of you know, i was diagnosed with "terminal" colon cancer in July of 09. I was told i would not see Christmas of 09, but here I am cancer free. I have always been a lifter, of the old school caliber. Eat a ton of peanut butter after a workout, ingest carbs for quick recovery and energy, lift heavy to failure after 3-6 reps 3-4 sets., 3-4 day break. But when I got sick i dropped from 6'1" 230 to 168#. They had me gain to 200#s with a very high protein diet. But I was flabby, and unhappy. I was finally released to work out, with limited core work because of all my surgeries and fears of tearing my abdominal wall and causing a hernia. I had 24 staples from my dick to my sternum, and about 50 internal stitches. I also had 6 staples and about 20 internal stitches where they removed part of my descending colon and lymph nodes. Finally, I had 15 staples and 70 internal stitches where they removed part of my liver and lymph nodes. The surgeries were done November 9th of 09. So blowing out my abdomen and creating hernias is a major concern.

I have always had a bit of a belly, no matter what I tried, and I had unimpressive (re soft) chest... old man tits if you will.

So I started on a cut routine. 3 lifting sessions a week, full body, high reps, light weight to failure, short breaks, low calories with high protein (whey) right after my lifts. I led into my lifts with BSN's NO Xplode, and lots of water for the creatine. I dropped to 185 and climbed back to 193 with more muscle, but no real definition. So, realizing my lack of definition was a lack of bulk under the flab I went back to my bulking routine and added a few more supps. My caloric intake was low (1500-1750 daily) with 80 grams of whey on workout days and 56 on off days. I tried cardio, long heavy walks or jogging on my 3 off days with trail hiking and running on Sundays. But I plateaued fast.

So I went on a bulk routine, since I know them best, but I added supps to help build. My supps include 1 whey at 28 grams in the AM, 3 NO-Xplode scoops and 1/2 NO Xplode Igniter shot before lifting, 3 scoops of BSN Total Mass and 1 scoop of whey post workout, and 1 scoop of whay before bed, and changed up my routine. I elected to go with the whey for quick absorption and better recovery.

Mondays I do chest (1 warm up at 50% and 20 reps, 1 minute break, 3 sets of mid level lifts, 10-15 until failure 2 minute breaks, and 2 heavy sets with 3-6 reps before failure with 3 minute breaks and calf raises, 50 per set at 3 sets) and biceps ( 2 exercises (standing BB curls and cable concentration curls), 4 sets of decent weight and 1 until failure), and abs (50 situps)

Wednesday I do legs (squats, 1 warm up at 50% and 20 reps, 1 minute break, 3 sets of mid level lifts, 10-15 until failure 2 minute breaks, and 2 heavy sets with 3-6 reps before failure with 3 minute breaks), Shoulders (2 exercises (standing lateral raises and military press), 4 sets of decent weight until failure), and forearms (2 exercises (seated forearm curls and seater inverted forearm curls), 4 sets of decent weight and 1 until failure).

Friday I do back (seated rows and laying DB lifts 4 sets of decent weight and 1 until failure). Triceps (skull crushers and pulldowns 4 sets of decent weight and 1 until failure). Traps ((1 warm up at 50% and 20 reps, 1 minute break, 3 sets of mid level lifts, 10-15 until failure 2 minute breaks, and 2 heavy sets with 3-6 reps before failure with 3 minute breaks), and Abs, leg lifts, 3 sets of 20.

My curls have almost doubled and my benches have doubled. Currently benching 360 (incline and declines are up, and curling 180. My military press have boosted 60 percent, up to 160. Other significant increases include forearm curls from 90 to 200, inverse forearm curls from 60 to 140. My weight has grown to 211 pounds, and I have gained some fat, but my muscle mass is greatly increased, and a safe guesstimate is my muscle strength has boosted almost 80% overall. The wife says that even though there is more fat, the muscle mass is greatly increased and it looks leaner due to my muscle mass being so large compared to the fat gains. My chest and shoulders are significantly larger. My forearms are almost show off worthy, and my shoulder and back gains are significant.

I figure i want to reach about 220-225"s before beginning a cut routine. I am hoping to get back down to 200-205 pounds and retain the muscle. My belly is shrinking a bit, but not as much as i would like. Plus the extra size in my upper body offsets the belly. Same with the tits. The upper pecs are developing, but the bottom of my chest is still softer than I would like. Does anyone have any suggestions for cutting fat and maintaining muscle? I know I need to watch what I eat, and maybe drop my caloric intake by about 300-500 calories. I am assuming I want to go with more cardio, but I know cardio eats at muscle. Do I go with light lifts, multiple sets, less breaks, and fewer sets to offset it? Do I go with all body workouts 2-3 times a week instead of 1 workout per week per muscle group? Am I right in assuming that I want to cut back to 1/2 or 1/3 of my True Mass? I think I will drop the NO Explode as it increases my intensity and focus so much that I can't seem to stop lifting heavier. Perhaps something like Jacked, for energy and possible hunger control?

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We've missed ya, glad your back :)

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We've missed ya, glad your back :)

Thanks Broseph!

My wife found a nice 120GB porn collection and was a tad unhappy about my intrawebz browsing, but I am back from time to time.

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No porn is needed if you haz audioz!

I spend lots of time looking at pole vents :ehh:

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Pics of self?

Glad to hear you beat what the doctors said!!

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Wow man, You are one tough fella and I am glad you proved the Dr's wrong.

I have not lifted in many, many years. Job, kids, getting older, lazy, you name it. I am researching some workouts now to start a lifestyle change after Christmas. I need to do something. I am out of control and this lazy ass lifestyle cant be good for my long term health.

Sorry I have nothing to add to your post other than saying that that is something incredible shit you have fought through. :fing34:

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Pics of self?

Glad to hear you beat what the doctors said!!

At 193:

mesm2.jpg

None more recent. I'll get the wife to take some shots in a few weeks. I just took a week off to recuperate, so I am down a bit, but in a few weeks i will be back up to snuff.

Wow man, You are one tough fella and I am glad you proved the Dr's wrong.

I have not lifted in many, many years. Job, kids, getting older, lazy, you name it. I am researching some workouts now to start a lifestyle change after Christmas. I need to do something. I am out of control and this lazy ass lifestyle cant be good for my long term health.

Sorry I have nothing to add to your post other than saying that that is something incredible shit you have fought through. :fing34:

Take care of yourself. I was invincible... until proven otherwise.

Thanks for the kind words though.

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Glad to see you are back.

Good luck!

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We've missed ya, glad your back :)

Thanks Broseph!

My wife found a nice 120GB porn collection and was a tad unhappy about my intrawebz browsing, but I am back from time to time.

First off glad to see your back bro!!!!!!!

Try IntenseMuscle for some good tips man. The guys there can really help you get in shape man!!!

As for the p0rn.........I couldnt do it.........I couldnt give up tons of porn for nothin. Its great.

J

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As for the p0rn.........I couldnt do it.........I couldnt give up tons of porn for nothin. Its great.

J

No worries. I also own a porn forum ;)

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As for the p0rn.........I couldnt do it.........I couldnt give up tons of porn for nothin. Its great.

J

No worries. I also own a porn forum ;)

\

And the wife flips about 120 gb of porn??

How does this make sense?

J

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As for the p0rn.........I couldnt do it.........I couldnt give up tons of porn for nothin. Its great.

J

No worries. I also own a porn forum ;)

\

And the wife flips about 120 gb of porn??

How does this make sense?

J

I guess because it wasn't on my CPU... and she doesn't know about the porn section of the forum ;)

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As for the p0rn.........I couldnt do it.........I couldnt give up tons of porn for nothin. Its great.

J

No worries. I also own a porn forum ;)

\

And the wife flips about 120 gb of porn??

How does this make sense?

J

I guess because it wasn't on my CPU... and she doesn't know about the porn section of the forum ;)

:attempt:

Glad to see you healthy again and able :)

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Awesome to hear your still alive Seth. Good luck on the body building.

BTW, you gotta hide the porn better than that.

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You're back! I never see any posts as I'm in mobil 100% of the time untill today...

Anyway, no more namby pamby welcome back. I'm just glad to hear you're alive and better than expected. Medical problems are a B.

As to cutting without loosing too much muscle there are 2 techniques that helped me a lot. First is walk semifast on a treadmill right away in the AM. Running/jogging is a bit extreme for most fellas and muscle will be lost. Do it every day for 20-30 min. The second thing is to change your work out split. Either every other day(the best for the body, worst for the schedule) with a chest, back, legs split, or you can try a 2 times a day lifting split. It's a PITA but can help.

I don't like the 2 gym trips a day method so I won't go into it, but it does help with results. It requires much better timing on calorie intake and is more restrictive, and doesn't allow for proper rest.

Here is why the every other day split works in a practical way and in a sceintific way. First of all it garuntees good rest between visits for the same body part, rest is the most important as that is the only way you can make constant progress. The gains are superior in a way mathamatical though. In a perfect year if you hit the gym every week for 3 visits thats 156 visits. Lets say you gain 1/32nd of an inch in your chest bulk per visit, thats 52/32nds of progress in a year. If you go once every 6 days for a chest work out you get 60/32nds in a year. That is an 8.666% increase. It's also going to speed up your metabolism. Obviously we aren't in a perfect world, but the goal is to refine what you're doing now. This plan will definately do that. If you are a guy who needs weekends off, then it won't work so well, and I really feel that if you lift hard with a 4 way split your limit your gains. There is one other method that has worked well, but I don't think it's long term sustainable, and that's a 3 way split 4 times a week. It's a bit like the every other day program but it is a bit more hardcore and really tough when you are trying to limit your total kcals in a day.

The 3 way split on a 4 day schedule works like a rotation. like so....

m - chest

t - back

w - off

t - legs

f - chest

S - off

S - off

m - back

t - legs

w- off

t - chest

f - back

s - off

s - off

m - legs

t - chest

w - off

t - back

f - legs

s - off

s - off

Again you are basically increasing frequency while still giving you enough rest. You also can concentrait on core movements and not some other wussy kind of lifting and create a "shoulders day". You know all the rest of the rules. Compound movemenbts are king for cutting and for bulking, squat(or sled if you can't stress your core too much), deadlift(I sometimes use bent over rows on a raised bench instead), bench(I think dips are better now but to each their own). The compound movements generate more growth and will end up in overall better results. There is some biology to this, as the compound movements, and movements where you move your body through space, generate more GH and other compounds. Then work the isolation movements after your compound.

You sound like you know the diet though. Lean protein every 2-3 hours. 3 hours being the absolute max. If you're stretching it past the 3 hour mark try cutting it down and you might just see some of the weight fly off from that alone. I lots 20lbs of flubber when I was 17 just by adding in a protein shake 2 times a day. I ate more and didn't change my work outs one bit, but the extra protein (and young age at the time) really turned on the metabolism.

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Do you think i should keep up the 1-3-2 on large muscle and compounds and 4-1 on small muscle and isolations, or should I vary that? My thoughts (on compounds) were possibly eliminate the 2 sets super heavy to failure and maybe go with 1 warm up and 4 sets of 20 @ ~75-80% of failure weight. On small muscle and isolation lifts was to go to 1 warm up and 3 sets of 20@ 75-80% of failure. Both of these done with quick movement (yes, I do watch form) and short breaks... similar to a circuit training.

When I was young, soooooo many years ago, I played football and for that time I was huge, at 6'1" 220. It was muscle too, not fat, on a big frame. I was never able to cut I could only bulk. But back in those days it was a common understanding that you lifted heavy low rep, skinny sets with long breaks (2-3 minutes between sets) and lots of rest (muscle groups being hit only once a week, 6 days recovery). Protein out the ying-tang. I bet i ate 3 cans of JIF a week. The mindset for cutting was high reps, high sets, skinny on the breaks (1 minute max) and doing 3 days a week full body workout and drink LOTS of milk for the whey.

So a big concern for me is the set/rep and weight as well as the downtime. I have been looking for why I couldn't get a good cut, and found several sites, but everyone seems to vary. I have also found the vast majority of BB forums have members who feel you have to be a professional BB or you simply aren't doing it right. Like you can't just want to be in shape, you HAVE to compete and you HAVE to do it their way. Annoying.

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Well then... remember when I said I needed to be careful about my abdomen? Guess who blew up their surgical site this weekend? Oddly it was not a muscular tear, the skin tore open about 1/2 an inch. Apparently there was some type of abscess. I have to go see a specialist this morning about it. I have been on antibiotics for a couple days and just keeping it covered.

I had to take a week off working out when i had my port removed, and sadly it looks like I may have to take more time off. I am going to ask the doc if i can keep up with my upper body work, but core work and leg work will likely be off the slate for a while.

Bummer

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Well then... remember when I said I needed to be careful about my abdomen? Guess who blew up their surgical site this weekend? Oddly it was not a muscular tear, the skin tore open about 1/2 an inch. Apparently there was some type of abscess. I have to go see a specialist this morning about it. I have been on antibiotics for a couple days and just keeping it covered.

I had to take a week off working out when i had my port removed, and sadly it looks like I may have to take more time off. I am going to ask the doc if i can keep up with my upper body work, but core work and leg work will likely be off the slate for a while.

Bummer

It is a bummer to hear that. Patients is virtue when recovering, especially for what you've been through. You've made it this far, take a little breather and enjoy time with those around you. Before you know they'll be driving you up the wall and back into the gym. :P Take care.

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Man!!!

You need to heal up.

I'm not sure what the 1-3-2 is a referance to.

I would say 2-3 warm up sets and then sets with weight that gets you to failure with 6-10 reps. I run mine as a pyramid. Lets say I am a guy who has a 1 rep max 300.

warm up with 100 6 reps

warm up with 150 6 reps

warm up with 225 6 reps

work set with 280 6 or fail

work set with 260 6 or fail

work set with 250 6 or fail

You can mess with the reps to fail. I just feel like the 6-10 is the best suited to getting the most out of the real strength building muscle fibers for explosive movement and powa. I really honestly feel that one anything 3 reps or under maxing is too rough on the body to repair in any resonable time.

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1 warm up, 2 to 12, and 3 to failure.

My understanding has been that the 3 reps that matter most are the last 3 to failure, which is why i target 3-6 on my failure reps.

On that premise, I have read about unloading and wish I had the people to help me with it. The goal is to find your failure weight first, then to unload the total weight during the exercise. For example, say my 5 rep failure weight was 200 pounds on the bench, do my 200 to failure, then have X amount of weight removed while I am parked (for the bench I am at my chest, for curls I am at the top of my curl, for military i am parked at my shoulder, etc.) from both sides at the same time. The reduction in that weight should allow me to continue with that set for 3-5 reps to failure, then remove more weight again for 3-5 reps to failure. According to my research, this keeps the muscle parked within that mass/strength region we actually target in our routine. You can do 1 or 2 sets this way, and achieve the same results as 3-6 sets. It also requires less recovery time, less time in the gym per workout, and the ability to lift less frequently.

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1 warm up, 2 to 12, and 3 to failure.

My understanding has been that the 3 reps that matter most are the last 3 to failure, which is why i target 3-6 on my failure reps.

On that premise, I have read about unloading and wish I had the people to help me with it. The goal is to find your failure weight first, then to unload the total weight during the exercise. For example, say my 5 rep failure weight was 200 pounds on the bench, do my 200 to failure, then have X amount of weight removed while I am parked (for the bench I am at my chest, for curls I am at the top of my curl, for military i am parked at my shoulder, etc.) from both sides at the same time. The reduction in that weight should allow me to continue with that set for 3-5 reps to failure, then remove more weight again for 3-5 reps to failure. According to my research, this keeps the muscle parked within that mass/strength region we actually target in our routine. You can do 1 or 2 sets this way, and achieve the same results as 3-6 sets. It also requires less recovery time, less time in the gym per workout, and the ability to lift less frequently.

:drink40:

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1 warm up, 2 to 12, and 3 to failure.

My understanding has been that the 3 reps that matter most are the last 3 to failure, which is why i target 3-6 on my failure reps.

On that premise, I have read about unloading and wish I had the people to help me with it. The goal is to find your failure weight first, then to unload the total weight during the exercise. For example, say my 5 rep failure weight was 200 pounds on the bench, do my 200 to failure, then have X amount of weight removed while I am parked (for the bench I am at my chest, for curls I am at the top of my curl, for military i am parked at my shoulder, etc.) from both sides at the same time. The reduction in that weight should allow me to continue with that set for 3-5 reps to failure, then remove more weight again for 3-5 reps to failure. According to my research, this keeps the muscle parked within that mass/strength region we actually target in our routine. You can do 1 or 2 sets this way, and achieve the same results as 3-6 sets. It also requires less recovery time, less time in the gym per workout, and the ability to lift less frequently.

Ahhhh I get that work out. I do not like it, and don't have anyone to help me with it. I have to put the weights down and move it myself. I only give myself 60 seconds max between sets though and that includes the time I am ropping the weight. Now when I was getting the best results,I would do the pyramid for flat bench to warm up and them do work sets for incline and decline(now dips). Then I did flys, cable chest pulls, skull crushers, dumbell press, behind the back dumbell lifts, and then tricep cable pull downs. 3 sets each. My total work out was 45 min to an hour for chest day that way, but I packed in ~54 sets.

You really want to get your workout as close to an hour as possible.

I would alter it as I felt each day.. sometimes I would do a billion lowerweight tricep pulldowns if I couldn't get a pump in my triceps, or slap 150 on a flat bench and go to failure to with a close grip to get my chest really pumped... things like that.

I learned this method from a few bigger sized power lifters from california who I met. What intregued me is no one in their gym who competes has ever had an injury with this method. I lift like a power lifter too. No outsideelbows, always tucked in for benching, unless it's with really light weight and I'm trying to isolate something. It's really made the most of my time in the gym.

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Really the goal is to pack as many 1 hour at a time intense work outs in as few days as possible. You just can't get them so close together that you don't recoved. I know if I'm working in the less that 6 rep range and I really push myself, I'm not all better in just 6 days. I need about 10, and that's too long, I start to loose my mojo, and my metabolism seams to start to loose it's fire.

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