Wood Splitting

[PhillBoy20XD6 0]

Sorry if I'm hijacking the thread but I have a front double baffle that I'm about to screw an sx 12 to and was wondering should I try and get screws to penetrate all the way through both layers or the first layer. I was kind of wondering if it barely makes it through the first layer that there may be separation between the two pieces.

[DarkTinman 9]

Predrill ftw indeed.

Also drilling at an angle helps avoid splitting.

I know this question has been answered but x2 for this. Angles help so much!

[shizzzon 461]

don't screw the baffles together.. that's freakin stupid...

I've seen people do it and it's SO a waste of time.

Just get a bunch of heavy items- subs, concrete blocks, batteries.. things to keep pressure on the wood for bout 30-45min and that's it.

Constantly running that many screws into the baffle will just weaken it and take a lot of labor for no reason.

[slim2fattycake 85]

don't screw the baffles together.. that's freakin stupid...

I've seen people do it and it's SO a waste of time.

Just get a bunch of heavy items- subs, concrete blocks, batteries.. things to keep pressure on the wood for bout 30-45min and that's it.

Constantly running that many screws into the baffle will just weaken it and take a lot of labor for no reason.

I'ma say no. Screw the baffles together. Its a longer wait than 30-45 mins. You don't remember that shitty box we put together. lol. I only use heavy items when i won't be doing anymore work and just leave the stuff laying overnight.

Just glue, clamp, and screw the first baffle to the box and then line up the next baffle and glue, clamp, and screw to the first baffle. Be done in 15 mins tops.

[PhillBoy20XD6 0]

I actually meant just the screws that hold the sub. should they go through both pieces? sorry it sounded different in my head ;P

[slim2fattycake 85]

you just have to go through one panel, but you shouldn't have a problem from the baffles separating if you glued it right.

[shizzzon 461]

don't screw the baffles together.. that's freakin stupid...

I've seen people do it and it's SO a waste of time.

Just get a bunch of heavy items- subs, concrete blocks, batteries.. things to keep pressure on the wood for bout 30-45min and that's it.

Constantly running that many screws into the baffle will just weaken it and take a lot of labor for no reason.

I'ma say no. Screw the baffles together. Its a longer wait than 30-45 mins. You don't remember that shitty box we put together. lol. I only use heavy items when i won't be doing anymore work and just leave the stuff laying overnight.

Just glue, clamp, and screw the first baffle to the box and then line up the next baffle and glue, clamp, and screw to the first baffle. Be done in 15 mins tops.

I'm going to disagree with your disagreement, lol.

Titebond only takes 30min of pressure before u can release it and let it fully cure.

I built the wall that way. Triple baffled, not a single screw on that thing. Just clamps on the outsides and weight in the middle (motors)

The next day, that baby was solid as a rock.

I have never screwed a baffle down..

You do it so you can work with the pieces while they cure.

I am not in a hurry when i build it, therefore let them cure overtime.

[slim2fattycake 85]

don't screw the baffles together.. that's freakin stupid...

I've seen people do it and it's SO a waste of time.

Just get a bunch of heavy items- subs, concrete blocks, batteries.. things to keep pressure on the wood for bout 30-45min and that's it.

Constantly running that many screws into the baffle will just weaken it and take a lot of labor for no reason.

I'ma say no. Screw the baffles together. Its a longer wait than 30-45 mins. You don't remember that shitty box we put together. lol. I only use heavy items when i won't be doing anymore work and just leave the stuff laying overnight.

Just glue, clamp, and screw the first baffle to the box and then line up the next baffle and glue, clamp, and screw to the first baffle. Be done in 15 mins tops.

I'm going to disagree with your disagreement, lol.

Titebond only takes 30min of pressure before u can release it and let it fully cure.

I built the wall that way. Triple baffled, not a single screw on that thing. Just clamps on the outsides and weight in the middle (motors)

The next day, that baby was solid as a rock.

I have never screwed a baffle down..

You do it so you can work with the pieces while they cure.

I am not in a hurry when i build it, therefore let them cure overtime.

You just lost your argument. lol. Those pieces I could push apart after 30 mins on that box we pieced together.

[thor02 2]

Phi, i agree with you. And seriously, it takes a minute to put some screws in the baffle. I would way rather do that than worrying about the dry time for the glue.

[slim2fattycake 85]

Plus, dry time is inconsistent. It changes with temperature.

[ibanender 2]

It must be your location..

All MDF all of us competitors have ever bought in our area is fine.

It takes a sledgehammer with several hits to a street box just to break the joints apart to throw the box away.

We get all our MDF at Lowes.

I'll be going a different route for my wall this summer. Goin with Hardwood. $50 per sheet here.

I would go with Oak but.. unless i get a good deal on other things, i don't feel like spending $70 per sheet when i need several.

It's not just my location, it's many. I also get mine from Lowe's, and Home Depot has the same crap. It takes a sledgehammer to break apart boxes I do in MDF too, but that doesn't mean its as strong as what I use now. All the MDF that sucks is a darker color and when you pick up 1 side of it, you can see it bend. It's very soft. Even a low grade pine plywood works better, and high grade pine plywood works better. You think your MDF is fine, but between the dark MDF and the light MDF I've proven 1.5 dB difference. Oak and birch are even better than that, to the tune of over TWICE as strong. I know you think the MDF is great, but when you start building identical boxes out of different wood, you'll see what I'm talking about.

don't screw the baffles together.. that's freakin stupid...

I've seen people do it and it's SO a waste of time.

Just get a bunch of heavy items- subs, concrete blocks, batteries.. things to keep pressure on the wood for bout 30-45min and that's it.

Constantly running that many screws into the baffle will just weaken it and take a lot of labor for no reason.

How does injecting metal make anything with an enclosure weaker?

[shizzzon 461]

I have never once seen dark mdf around here, but i have also not used mdf in about a year either...

Last box i built was out of 1.5" birch.

I don't use mdf anymore because the cost of mdf keeps rising where other materials are staying the same price.

That's why i'll be switching over to hardwood at the minimum... or oak if i could get a discount.

phi.. of course dry times change with temperature.

You only wanted to use screws... because like i said before, u wanted to piece it all together at once and didn't have time to wait.

This is taken from their website-

we recommend clamping an unstressed joint for thirty minutes to an hour. Stressed joints need to be clamped for 24 hours. We recommend not stressing the new joint for at least 24 hours. For Titebond Polyurethane Glue, we recommend clamping for at least forty-five minutes. The glue is completely cured within 6 hours.

Since i'm never in a hurry when i build a wall, i let all my pieces dry for roughly 16-20hrs before working with them again and i only work with them in hot temps anyways. No screws...

Look up hometheater forums.. Most of them do not use screws either..

It's simple- if u got clamps.. why use screws? Glue is the strongest bonding agent in the build.

The only reason to use screws is if u are in an hurry.. and i'm never in a hurry to build a box as that will cause mistakes.

Using unnecessary amount of screws can cause the glue to not adhere properly to the surface being applied to.

I am not singling myself out on this opinion.. many people do not use screws if they have clamps and have never had a problem because.. glue is stronger than screws.

Clamps vs screws.. clamps are better and faster.

[slim2fattycake 85]

You act like I've never done a screwless build. My old home theater box was screwless. It took way longer than needed to build it. My new home theater box used SOME screws and I finished it way faster, not counting the days I didn't do any work lol. But without screws, I wouldn't handle a box under 6 hours minimum depending on the temperature. And I agree, clamping and glue is a must with or without screws.

[ibanender 2]

I have never once seen dark mdf around here, but i have also not used mdf in about a year either...

Last box i built was out of 1.5" birch.

I don't use mdf anymore because the cost of mdf keeps rising where other materials are staying the same price.

That's why i'll be switching over to hardwood at the minimum... or oak if i could get a discount.

phi.. of course dry times change with temperature.

You only wanted to use screws... because like i said before, u wanted to piece it all together at once and didn't have time to wait.

This is taken from their website-

we recommend clamping an unstressed joint for thirty minutes to an hour. Stressed joints need to be clamped for 24 hours. We recommend not stressing the new joint for at least 24 hours. For Titebond Polyurethane Glue, we recommend clamping for at least forty-five minutes. The glue is completely cured within 6 hours.

Since i'm never in a hurry when i build a wall, i let all my pieces dry for roughly 16-20hrs before working with them again and i only work with them in hot temps anyways. No screws...

Look up hometheater forums.. Most of them do not use screws either..

It's simple- if u got clamps.. why use screws? Glue is the strongest bonding agent in the build.

The only reason to use screws is if u are in an hurry.. and i'm never in a hurry to build a box as that will cause mistakes.

Using unnecessary amount of screws can cause the glue to not adhere properly to the surface being applied to.

I am not singling myself out on this opinion.. many people do not use screws if they have clamps and have never had a problem because.. glue is stronger than screws.

Clamps vs screws.. clamps are better and faster.

I think you're in a very odd area, because I haven't talked to anybody that doesn't have dark MDF. It's been made out that screws WEAKEN a box, which simply isn't the case. What's better than glue? Glue and screws, which is what I do, except on some boxes I'll glue and staple. Not only is it the best bond, it's way faster than clamps... no waiting.

You act like I've never done a screwless build. My old home theater box was screwless. It took way longer than needed to build it. My new home theater box used SOME screws and I finished it way faster, not counting the days I didn't do any work lol. But without screws, I wouldn't handle a box under 6 hours minimum depending on the temperature. And I agree, clamping and glue is a must with or without screws.

I don't see a need for clamps when screwing it. The screws pull it together, that's what screws do.

[dbsupra 69]

I think they were trying to make the point that you can apply more pressure and thereby a better glue joint by clamping than you can with screws

[ibanender 2]

I think they were trying to make the point that you can apply more pressure and thereby a better glue joint by clamping than you can with screws

If your wood doesn't suck, screws do just as good of job

[RAM_Designs 25]

If your wood doesn't suck, screws do just as good of job

I agree that if you're cuts are nice, then screws definitely suck tight the joints very well. The adhesive will come out of the seams just like when you're clamping.

[shizzzon 461]

I think they were trying to make the point that you can apply more pressure and thereby a better glue joint by clamping than you can with screws

If your wood doesn't suck, screws do just as good of job

I wasn't implying screws suck period.. That was taken out of context.

What i am implying is excessive use of screws is bad.

I havent been in this topic in a while but i'm pretty sure that's the point that was being expressed by me when i was stating using screws like i see many people do to screw their baffles together is pointless..

I've seen people use around 60 screws just for that!?!?!

Instead, it would be quicker and probably stronger to just lay a large amount of weight on the center of the baffles and clamp the hell out of the sides all the way around.

But.. this is more technique than the only way..

Since there is no only way to do it.. this really isn't debatable.

[///M5 2,833]

When done properly the glue joint will be as strong/stronger than the rest of the mdf. Screws add nothing beneficial to strenght in that regard. Doesn't mean that there aren't times to use them, but they are a clamp in this case and should be used as one. I never bother, but have plenty of clamps. A few brads to hold things square and I find that much more logical.

['BIG DAVE' 0]

MDF is junk- compressed sawdust with everything else from the woodshop floor- table saw it in the dark and watch the sparks!

BUT- its dense and what we use for boxes. So- gotta get used to using it. Airnail it together with a good wood glue- THEN when its stable, Pre-Drill and counter sink the holes first. U can use drywall screws- they are a #6, or use a deck screw # 8- predrill will be different size.

U can use multiple layers laminated together with glue and THEN end drill for ur 90 degree attachment.

When I'm building a custom enclosure & install, MDF is the last thing I want to use! - Its crap for end attaching CUZ of the splitting. U can use strips and make edge bracing- but that splits as well. Also IF ur going to fiberglass to it- its just too smooth to get a good hold on it. (Fiberglass is a liquid plastic that molds to a shape but doesnt have any Adhesive properties- it relies on a Mechanical bond. USE Epoxy resin if needind a bonding composite.

I use a good plywood, end screwing is great and THEN laminate a MDF layer to the surface for strength. THIS isnt for a square box enclosure- its for a CUSTOM design where MDF will just fall apart back into the pile of sawdust it was made from. For Box building- ya, MDF or HDF is the shit!

Use the plywood layer INside so 'glass can bite INTO the rough textured surface.

There is a NO GAP, marine grade plywood- they use it for bill boards and it has a heavy paper-coated surface- so its SMOOTH as MDF but still has the laminate properties and can end screw- cuz of NO GAP- theres no buzzing and its a lot denser, heavier & stiffer than regular plywood.

Remember- IF ur building a DB monster- going for a record- u'll want ur BAFFLE board to be at least 4.5 INCHES thick! Baffle flex cracks baskets!

[Tirefryr 1,742]

Wow, so much misinformation in this thread.

[RAM_Designs 25]

When I'm building a custom enclosure & install, MDF is the last thing I want to use! - Its crap for end attaching CUZ of the splitting. U can use strips and make edge bracing- but that splits as well.

I pre-drill and have NEVER had MDF split on me...ever.

[ibanender 2]

I think they were trying to make the point that you can apply more pressure and thereby a better glue joint by clamping than you can with screws

If your wood doesn't suck, screws do just as good of job

I wasn't implying screws suck period.. That was taken out of context.

What i am implying is excessive use of screws is bad.

I havent been in this topic in a while but i'm pretty sure that's the point that was being expressed by me when i was stating using screws like i see many people do to screw their baffles together is pointless..

I've seen people use around 60 screws just for that!?!?!

Instead, it would be quicker and probably stronger to just lay a large amount of weight on the center of the baffles and clamp the hell out of the sides all the way around.

But.. this is more technique than the only way..

Since there is no only way to do it.. this really isn't debatable.

Excessive screw use isn't bad, it's not necessary. There isn't a negative effect, just "overkill". There are some people that legitimately believe (and I'm not sure how it got started or spread) that leaving screws in a box WEAKENS the box. Yes, they believe that leaving metal that is used to make a bond tight is more detrimental than leaving a void in the wood.

MDF is junk- compressed sawdust with everything else from the woodshop floor- table saw it in the dark and watch the sparks!

BUT- its dense and what we use for boxes.hick! Baffle flex cracks baskets!

You'd be surprised at how dense MDF isn't. In some industrial applications, it's actually used as an air filter.

[shizzzon 461]

if screws are used, you "can" pull them out but i wouldnt see the reason behind that..

Too much pointless labor..

[dbsupra 69]

You'd be surprised at how dense MDF isn't. In some industrial applications, it's actually used as an air filter.

What? I work in a ton of different industrial environments. I've never seen that before. What app are you talking about?