I want SQ Part II

[ford302redneck 15]

Ok. I have a 01 Ford F-250, Crew cab.

I've been doing a lot of reading since my last thread. Got a better idea of what I want. I just need help deciding which route to take.

First, I want a good staging and imaging. At first I didn't really care about this, but now I almost can't listen to my setup now because I can hear each speaker individually. Its really driving me crazy.

As far as having a perfect reproducing of the recording, meh, I don't care so much about that. I don't want it way offf, but I want my tastes.

Also, for step one I won't have a processor, I will eventually, and I'm sure I won't be able to dial everything in until, but I think I can live with it.

Option one is, 2-way passive components in the kick. Drawback I'm seeing here is, I don't think I'll be able to get the imaging high enough. But since I won't have a processor this will be easiest.

Option two, 3way passive, mid and tweeter on axis in the A-Pillar, midbass in the door. This is a bit more pricey vs 2way, but I think the imaging will be better because of the on-axis.

Options three, full range 4inch in the A-pillar, 8inch midbss in the door active.(Using x-over on a Sundown 100.4) this seems a good options, but I'm scared the "highs" won't be loud enough without a tweeter. I don't like really loud cheap tweeter loudness, but I do like a louder tisk than average.

Also, eventually, I will run a 3-way active setup. But I want to start slow then upgrade when I feel comfortable I can tune everything properly.

Any help would be awesome. I'm still a noob when it comes to SQ. And I'm willing to learn if possible.

[Infinite913 381]

I just purchased some Oxygen audios and although I havent installed mine to hear them in my vehicle. HOVE has them in his envoy just a pair of 6.5 run active off the sundown 4 channel and it sounds AMAZING! and Oxygen audio arent to expensive as far as trial and error.

[ford302redneck 15]

I either want to buy a set of components I can either use the tweeter or mid later if possible or a real budget set if I go that route.

[Infinite913 381]

I bought a 2 way set for my astro setup and for 2 6.5 COMPS i paid like 120 shipped. I heard hoves and they are QUALITY product thats why I bought them! JMO

[Randal Johnson 544]

One of the most fun things to (for me) is searching for speaker placement ... It took hours and hours to find the placement for my drivers ... the way it was set up, no processing or time alignment was needed ... We put doublesided tape on the tweeters and moved them around on the a pillars to find correct location, and built small baffeled boxes for the 6.5s ... Every vehicle will be different, best of luck to ya bro ... If I can help out in any way, please hit me up on CA-F ... Thanks, Randal ...

[ford302redneck 15]

I plan on carefully placing the drivers on the A-Pillars if I go that route. And I'm sure I'll have to try a few different setups before I find the one I like.

I've seen 3 or 4 so far like my truck, so I kind of got idea of how they need to be.

I wouldn't mind the kick idea, but from what I read, they are just to far away to get really good imaging.

[hondakilla98 29]

What's your budget for this? And what do you currently have for equipment? So you can't afford to sell your current deck and buy one that's capable of running active? Like an alpine 9887, 9886 w/ pxa-h100, pioneer 880? You can get one of these for around $200-250 if you shop around. And if you don't already have the 100.4, you could buy a cheaper amp with similar power and a lesser crossover and save about $100. Which makes the active capable deck more reasonable. That also opens up your choices for running whatever speakers you want and not having to settle for a passive 2-way set now that will probably get replaced later. Not to mention it takes a lot of time to get an active setup to sound good. This would give you time tuning a 2-way active stage, and make it easier for you to tune a 3 way later down the road.

[Randal Johnson 544]

Kick pannels being too far away ??? The whole idea for a stage and image is to be out on the hood and away from the listener as possible. This was told to me by Todd Crowder from TC Audio ... In the kicks, you can lay them back and project them upward (towards the windshield rear view mirror) to project a stage. Again, just a suggestion bro ... Thanks, Randal ...

[Sir-Lancelot 216]

I agree with Randal, and I would start with the mids and tweeters in the kicks myself. The longer path to your ears would actually help you, not hurt you.

[///M5 2,833]

What amount of construction effort are you willing to put in?

Either way, I'd start 2 way and buy used drivers so you can sell them and change later. No matter what you do and decide now, your tastes will change once you start playing. If not your tastes, your curiosity. Considering this is your first shot though, I'd definitely buy something you could flip for just shipping.

One of the most fun things to (for me) is searching for speaker placement ... It took hours and hours to find the placement for my drivers ... the way it was set up, no processing or time alignment was needed ... We put doublesided tape on the tweeters and moved them around on the a pillars to find correct location, and built small baffeled boxes for the 6.5s ... Every vehicle will be different, best of luck to ya bro ... If I can help out in any way, please hit me up on CA-F ... Thanks, Randal ...

Lol, what did you move your steering wheel to the center of the car? Tons of extra eq isn't a solution for T/A

[j-roadtatts 1,129]

If you truely want good SQ, like a concert, then I suggest option 3. with the right full ranger and mid bass mounted in the right locations you can't go wrong and will SIMPLIFY things. I do suggest as hondakilla said and buy a HU with the right processing, you can tune WAY easier by ear this way. T/A and EQ are a must and with the right install, equipment and tuning you will be happy.

[Randal Johnson 544]

One of the most fun things to (for me) is searching for speaker placement ... It took hours and hours to find the placement for my drivers ... the way it was set up, no processing or time alignment was needed ... We put doublesided tape on the tweeters and moved them around on the a pillars to find correct location, and built small baffeled boxes for the 6.5s ... Every vehicle will be different, best of luck to ya bro ... If I can help out in any way, please hit me up on CA-F ... Thanks, Randal ...

Lol, what did you move your steering wheel to the center of the car? Tons of extra eq isn't a solution for T/A

///M5, Did you even read my post before you quoted me on it trying to point out something wrong? That post did not mention anything about EQing a system ...

Now that you mentioned it, my truck has a great center stage (from the driver and passenger seats) without any processing, time alignment, or EQing. Thanks bro ...

[ford302redneck 15]

What's your budget for this? And what do you currently have for equipment? So you can't afford to sell your current deck and buy one that's capable of running active? Like an alpine 9887, 9886 w/ pxa-h100, pioneer 880? You can get one of these for around $200-250 if you shop around. And if you don't already have the 100.4, you could buy a cheaper amp with similar power and a lesser crossover and save about $100. Which makes the active capable deck more reasonable. That also opens up your choices for running whatever speakers you want and not having to settle for a passive 2-way set now that will probably get replaced later. Not to mention it takes a lot of time to get an active setup to sound good. This would give you time tuning a 2-way active stage, and make it easier for you to tune a 3 way later down the road.

Well, the Sundown has the crossovers that can go active, and I really don't think I can find a 100.4 for what I can get that for.

Headunit wise, I'm really not a fan of any currectly offered with active capability. And I plan to run a real processor down the road, so buying a headunit I don't like, to later not need it isn't what I want to do.

I got a buddy telling me to start simple. 2 way passive. He thinks he can get them to sound good. Which I'm not disagreeing, I just don't know if I'll get the imaging I want. But what would I expect with a set of passive with no real way to EQ or time align them.

I'm semi leaning towards a 3way passive. Then I can get my placement then when I'm ready go active. But the different in $$$ in a good bit. Seems 3way cost double that of a 2way of the same.

[An-i-no 86]

What's your budget for this? And what do you currently have for equipment? So you can't afford to sell your current deck and buy one that's capable of running active? Like an alpine 9887, 9886 w/ pxa-h100, pioneer 880? You can get one of these for around $200-250 if you shop around. And if you don't already have the 100.4, you could buy a cheaper amp with similar power and a lesser crossover and save about $100. Which makes the active capable deck more reasonable. That also opens up your choices for running whatever speakers you want and not having to settle for a passive 2-way set now that will probably get replaced later. Not to mention it takes a lot of time to get an active setup to sound good. This would give you time tuning a 2-way active stage, and make it easier for you to tune a 3 way later down the road.

Well, the Sundown has the crossovers that can go active, and I really don't think I can find a 100.4 for what I can get that for.

Headunit wise, I'm really not a fan of any currectly offered with active capability. And I plan to run a real processor down the road, so buying a headunit I don't like, to later not need it isn't what I want to do.

I got a buddy telling me to start simple. 2 way passive. He thinks he can get them to sound good. Which I'm not disagreeing, I just don't know if I'll get the imaging I want. But what would I expect with a set of passive with no real way to EQ or time align them.

I'm semi leaning towards a 3way passive. Then I can get my placement then when I'm ready go active. But the different in $$$ in a good bit. Seems 3way cost double that of a 2way of the same.

My AQ 4x90 has awesome crossovers...just throwing that out there. It might not be as powerful as the 100.4 but I doubt you'd ever push either amp to tell a diff.

[ford302redneck 15]

What amount of construction effort are you willing to put in?

Either way, I'd start 2 way and buy used drivers so you can sell them and change later. No matter what you do and decide now, your tastes will change once you start playing. If not your tastes, your curiosity. Considering this is your first shot though, I'd definitely buy something you could flip for just shipping.

Pretty good bit of effort. Whatever it takes to achieve the sound I'm looking for. If somebody told me to cut a whole in my floor for my midbass to get what I want, I probably would.

And I value your opinion a good bit, and I agree I pretty sure my tastes will change.

They have big time in the last few months. One reason my mind finally started understand what I was hearing.

But I think my main goal of a 3way active with the mid and tweeter on axis will stay the same. Unless I find what I'm looking for before I get to that point.

Only draw back I want is able to get pretty loud. Not super loud. If it will keep up with 140dB of bass(not that I will have that) is what I'm aiming for.

And I know I can't have loudness plus perfect imaging, and I'm not trying to. Not at the same time anyways.

[ford302redneck 15]

What's your budget for this? And what do you currently have for equipment? So you can't afford to sell your current deck and buy one that's capable of running active? Like an alpine 9887, 9886 w/ pxa-h100, pioneer 880? You can get one of these for around $200-250 if you shop around. And if you don't already have the 100.4, you could buy a cheaper amp with similar power and a lesser crossover and save about $100. Which makes the active capable deck more reasonable. That also opens up your choices for running whatever speakers you want and not having to settle for a passive 2-way set now that will probably get replaced later. Not to mention it takes a lot of time to get an active setup to sound good. This would give you time tuning a 2-way active stage, and make it easier for you to tune a 3 way later down the road.

Well, the Sundown has the crossovers that can go active, and I really don't think I can find a 100.4 for what I can get that for.

Headunit wise, I'm really not a fan of any currectly offered with active capability. And I plan to run a real processor down the road, so buying a headunit I don't like, to later not need it isn't what I want to do.

I got a buddy telling me to start simple. 2 way passive. He thinks he can get them to sound good. Which I'm not disagreeing, I just don't know if I'll get the imaging I want. But what would I expect with a set of passive with no real way to EQ or time align them.

I'm semi leaning towards a 3way passive. Then I can get my placement then when I'm ready go active. But the different in $$$ in a good bit. Seems 3way cost double that of a 2way of the same.

My AQ 4x90 has awesome crossovers...just throwing that out there. It might not be as powerful as the 100.4 but I doubt you'd ever push either amp to tell a diff.

It does have pretty good crossover but it seems Sundown is a little more flexible, plus I would almost consider Jake a friend, so its really no real reason not to run it.

Not downing anything else, but as long as Sundown makes amp that fits my needs, I'm going to run em. Unless I get a helva deal on something else.

[j-roadtatts 1,129]

Sounds like you already have your mind made up. Why are you wasting our time AGAIN, if you already know what your doing? You obviously don't take anyone's advice, so why should we give it?.

This thread looks as if its heading right in the same direction as your last one.

[ford302redneck 15]

Because I didn't ask opinions on amps or headunits.

I asked about placement and different driver setups. And wondered if I needed to start slow,with a simple 2-way passive, or not.

And I did listen to M5, and if you says I need go 2-way route, its probably what I'm going to do. He's not the only one telling me this.

My mind is made up on the options I have. Unless somebody has a better idea. But telling me to buy a new headunit and a cheaper amp isn't giving me advise. I'm aware of active headunits.

[///M5 2,833]

///M5, Did you even read my post before you quoted me on it trying to point out something wrong? That post did not mention anything about EQing a system ...

Now that you mentioned it, my truck has a great center stage (from the driver and passenger seats) without any processing, time alignment, or EQing. Thanks bro ...

Yes I read it. Two options besides a different placement and if you used neither then your subjective idea of what you have is so biased you don't even see it.

I'm semi leaning towards a 3way passive. Then I can get my placement then when I'm ready go active. But the different in $$$ in a good bit. Seems 3way cost double that of a 2way of the same.

3 way passive is not ever a good option IMO. *exception being of course when the passive is designed in situ*

Because I didn't ask opinions on amps or headunits.

I asked about placement and different driver setups. And wondered if I needed to start slow,with a simple 2-way passive, or not.

Problem being you can't isolate just one thing, the system is what is important and it is rarely the sum of the pieces. Complete goals are always easier to address.

That being said, depending on the timeframe before you go to a real processor I would completely have different recommendations.

[cobra93 47]

Hey Ford, I've red through this and want to point out for future reference regarding head units.

I can't find the info at the moment, but when I looked into getting a pioneer800/800, I found the front rca outs (high pass) will only go as low as 1,250 hz. @6 db slope.

This could be an issue if you choose to go active and the full range route. You'd still have to use the amps x-over as your high pass.

[ford302redneck 15]

///M5, Did you even read my post before you quoted me on it trying to point out something wrong? That post did not mention anything about EQing a system ...

Now that you mentioned it, my truck has a great center stage (from the driver and passenger seats) without any processing, time alignment, or EQing. Thanks bro ...

Yes I read it. Two options besides a different placement and if you used neither then your subjective idea of what you have is so biased you don't even see it.

I'm semi leaning towards a 3way passive. Then I can get my placement then when I'm ready go active. But the different in $$$ in a good bit. Seems 3way cost double that of a 2way of the same.

3 way passive is not ever a good option IMO. *exception being of course when the passive is designed in situ*

Because I didn't ask opinions on amps or headunits.

I asked about placement and different driver setups. And wondered if I needed to start slow,with a simple 2-way passive, or not.

Problem being you can't isolate just one thing, the system is what is important and it is rarely the sum of the pieces. Complete goals are always easier to address.

That being said, depending on the timeframe before you go to a real processor I would completely have different recommendations.

See this is the kind of questions/advise I want to hear.

Not, go with a active headunit, go with a cheaper amp, or whatever. If I want opinions on products, I would of asked. I want opinions on different setups for my overall goal.

And I'm not 100% how long it will be before I get a processor. Its possible I might even buy it first. But it will be at least July before I can think of ordering it. I'm pretty convinced to go with the 360.3, this really isn't up for discussion. I want almost all the features it has. I know I don't need something of this magnitude just for 3-way active.

I'm trying to figure out which move to make first. If I should start with kicks passive, work myself up to active. And then if I'm not happy go with my real dream.

[ford302redneck 15]

Hey Ford, I've red through this and want to point out for future reference regarding head units.

I can't find the info at the moment, but when I looked into getting a pioneer800/800, I found the front rca outs (high pass) will only go as low as 1,250 hz. @6 db slope.

This could be an issue if you choose to go active and the full range route. You'd still have to use the amps x-over as your high pass.

Thank you for pointing that out.

See people recommending me a unit that wouldn't even benefit me. This is my point, people always give advise that isn't asked for, and not thinking I haven't thought of it.

Before I made this thread I researched and thought long and hard about this, and wanted opinions on which route should I start with first.

I'm thinking simple and budget friendly. But if its a complete waste of time, I need to know. I'm not quiet sure what it exactly takes to achieve what I want. If somebody told me a simple 2way with hardly any processing can give the image I want. I need to know. But regardless I think I'm going to need time alignment. Since my right side is a good bit of distance from me then my left side. And now its like I'm hearing a echo, and its driving me crazy.

[j-roadtatts 1,129]

Fair enough, I feel you.

The benifits to the two way fullranger + midbass set up is you can run alot bigger midbass if thats what you think you need. Also you can mount the fullranger high up in the ride for better stage height. Obviously not the most ideal in therory without full control of things but I think the beinfits would still outweigh the passive setup mounted in the kick. just my opinion for good SQ.

The passive in the kicks would definely be easy to set up but will have its own limitations.

[onebadmonte 235]

Burn all the money you've got on a Audison BitOne. Don't know how to tune? Burn all the money you've got on a JBL MS8. Welcome to SQ heaven. [/thread]

[///M5 2,833]

Fair enough, I feel you.

The benifits to the two way fullranger + midbass set up is you can run alot bigger midbass if thats what you think you need. Also you can mount the fullranger high up in the ride for better stage height. Obviously not the most ideal in therory without full control of things but I think the beinfits would still outweigh the passive setup mounted in the kick. just my opinion for good SQ.

The passive in the kicks would definely be easy to set up but will have its own limitations.

There is a reason I built full rangers for my office for on axis music listening.