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DarkTinman

Steve Meade's Clipping Tool

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To the OP, why do you say he is trying to make more money again?(If it's about the SMD subs,he doesn't makes money on that.)

He gives out money and amps and subs and components and deadeners, if you win system of the month, so i don't think he does it for the money.

I'm not going to claim what I am about to type as proven FACT but it is merly my OPINION.

As to the making nothing on SMD subs, and him paying the money and money for the gear he uses as giveaways.........

I CALL HORSESHIT.

Sorry but it just don't add up. I know there has to be a company or man behind the curtain here. And I mean besides Chicken. It just don't make sense.

Don't get me wrong if it is actually him shelling it out of his OWN money not money from RF, DC Alts, or Chicken then cool. I just don't see it man. I really don't.

J

With the system of the month, when its sponsored by somebody, it is just that. I'm not sure if Steve pays for it or not.

But I'm sure he has gave away his money before.

But you got to think, he is making a good bit off youtube and I'm sure his forum is making him a good bit of money also.

When he does a video for SOTM, I'm sure that one video will pay for the prizes.

Its not like he isn't making anything from car audio.

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Same reason clipping indicators are useless. Why not empower yourself and research distortion measurements. Then research what computation power it takes to build a real time analyzer in the frequency domain to do the calculations. Then realize how difficult it is if you do not exactly know the input frequency in the algorithm. Even more importantly, take a step back and read about average power, how and why it is defined and what little affect some clipping has on it. Completely useless and will not only give the wrong result but misinform people that they are doing it the right way. I despise the company/person bringing this to market. It is perhaps even a step worse than a capacitor. :( :( :(

That's why it is only usable on 1000hz and 60hz test tones.

You say "we" have to research how clipping is the same as "clean" power, but there isn't any article that i have found where they did a good experiment which proves that clipping is not worse then nonclipped power.( i've only seen honda95 his experiment and you jumping on the same horse and saying it's correct, although Fi has made a few experiments themselves and they are a more relaible source, and they say it IS worse on a subwoofer)

Not only by the heat it creates but also the wear on the spiders and added stress on the cone and triple joint assembly.

Only theory, no practical tests(?) is what i have seen. (PLEASE show me a few links or articles. :) i would love to be wrong )

The "tool" is made to detect clipping, and that is what it does, get the most "clean" power out of a amp in a handy and simple device.

It's not made to measure power or to see if the driver can handle the power, that is not it's job.

You are saying tony d'amore isn't a good engineer? That the RF 30kw is a amp like all others?

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Same reason clipping indicators are useless. Why not empower yourself and research distortion measurements. Then research what computation power it takes to build a real time analyzer in the frequency domain to do the calculations. Then realize how difficult it is if you do not exactly know the input frequency in the algorithm. Even more importantly, take a step back and read about average power, how and why it is defined and what little affect some clipping has on it. Completely useless and will not only give the wrong result but misinform people that they are doing it the right way. I despise the company/person bringing this to market. It is perhaps even a step worse than a capacitor. :( :( :(

That's why it is only usable on 1000hz and 60hz test tones.

You say "we" have to research how clipping is the same as "clean" power, but there isn't any article that i have found where they did a good experiment which proves that clipping is not worse then nonclipped power.( i've only seen honda95 his experiment and you jumping on the same horse and saying it's correct, although Fi has made a few experiments themselves and they are a more relaible source, and they say it IS worse on a subwoofer)

Not only by the heat it creates but also the wear on the spiders and added stress on the cone and triple joint assembly.

Only theory, no practical tests(?) is what i have seen. (PLEASE show me a few links or articles. :) i would love to be wrong )

The "tool" is made to detect clipping, and that is what it does, get the most "clean" power out of a amp in a handy and simple device.

It's not made to measure power or to see if the driver can handle the power, that is not it's job.

You are saying tony d'amore isn't a good engineer? That the RF 30kw is a amp like all others?

Either fancy algorithm and only one set frequency or really fancy algorithm. 60to 1kHz is a HUGE range. Even still they aren't doing it right. (even .25Hz can make a huge difference depending on how the are approximating their algorithm)

You should re-read the thread. Scott himself came on and agreed with 95 and myself. Nick was not comparing the SAME power, but using more power in his clipped signal.

On top of that I NEVER said to research clipping, just how power is defined. It makes it VERY simple.

That tool was NOT meant to measure clipping, it can't. Not possible. How do you write an algorithm to look for a squared off wave and what are its limits? Clean power doesn't matter. The only thing that tool was meant to do was to make SM money. Has nothing to do with engineering, nor with the engineer that designed it. He did so based on SM market intelligence and not based on making a true tool. Stop reading into what is being said and instead take it at face value.

The thing is a HUGE waste of money. Completely ridiculous.

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Same reason clipping indicators are useless. Why not empower yourself and research distortion measurements. Then research what computation power it takes to build a real time analyzer in the frequency domain to do the calculations. Then realize how difficult it is if you do not exactly know the input frequency in the algorithm. Even more importantly, take a step back and read about average power, how and why it is defined and what little affect some clipping has on it. Completely useless and will not only give the wrong result but misinform people that they are doing it the right way. I despise the company/person bringing this to market. It is perhaps even a step worse than a capacitor. :( :( :(

That's why it is only usable on 1000hz and 60hz test tones.

You say "we" have to research how clipping is the same as "clean" power, but there isn't any article that i have found where they did a good experiment which proves that clipping is not worse then nonclipped power.( i've only seen honda95 his experiment and you jumping on the same horse and saying it's correct, although Fi has made a few experiments themselves and they are a more relaible source, and they say it IS worse on a subwoofer)

Not only by the heat it creates but also the wear on the spiders and added stress on the cone and triple joint assembly.

Only theory, no practical tests(?) is what i have seen. (PLEASE show me a few links or articles. :) i would love to be wrong )

The "tool" is made to detect clipping, and that is what it does, get the most "clean" power out of a amp in a handy and simple device.

It's not made to measure power or to see if the driver can handle the power, that is not it's job.

You are saying tony d'amore isn't a good engineer? That the RF 30kw is a amp like all others?

Either fancy algorithm and only one set frequency or really fancy algorithm. 60to 1kHz is a HUGE range. Even still they aren't doing it right. (even .25Hz can make a huge difference depending on how the are approximating their algorithm)

You should re-read the thread. Scott himself came on and agreed with 95 and myself. Nick was not comparing the SAME power, but using more power in his clipped signal.

On top of that I NEVER said to research clipping, just how power is defined. It makes it VERY simple.

That tool was NOT meant to measure clipping, it can't. Not possible. How do you write an algorithm to look for a squared off wave and what are its limits? Clean power doesn't matter. The only thing that tool was meant to do was to make SM money. Has nothing to do with engineering, nor with the engineer that designed it. He did so based on SM market intelligence and not based on making a true tool. Stop reading into what is being said and instead take it at face value.

The thing is a HUGE waste of money. Completely ridiculous.

You're wrong.

It's not a range between 60 and 1khz. It's NOLY 1khz OR 60hz, nothing inbetween or around it.( so 2 set frequencies)

I don't know that much about writing algoritmes that complicated, but how do you make algoritmes for the "more advanced" tools to detect clipping? Because they work at all ranges.(almost all is what i mean.)

I don't know SM nor you, nor tony, but i do know the RF amp has good technology in it nor do you know SM or what his plans are.

I do believe he wants a tool for less "rich" people to detect clipping.

Until it comes out and nobody has tested it i will stay with my opinion and you with yours since that is what they are. :)

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Same reason clipping indicators are useless. Why not empower yourself and research distortion measurements. Then research what computation power it takes to build a real time analyzer in the frequency domain to do the calculations. Then realize how difficult it is if you do not exactly know the input frequency in the algorithm. Even more importantly, take a step back and read about average power, how and why it is defined and what little affect some clipping has on it. Completely useless and will not only give the wrong result but misinform people that they are doing it the right way. I despise the company/person bringing this to market. It is perhaps even a step worse than a capacitor. :( :( :(

That's why it is only usable on 1000hz and 60hz test tones.

You say "we" have to research how clipping is the same as "clean" power, but there isn't any article that i have found where they did a good experiment which proves that clipping is not worse then nonclipped power.( i've only seen honda95 his experiment and you jumping on the same horse and saying it's correct, although Fi has made a few experiments themselves and they are a more relaible source, and they say it IS worse on a subwoofer)

Not only by the heat it creates but also the wear on the spiders and added stress on the cone and triple joint assembly.

Only theory, no practical tests(?) is what i have seen. (PLEASE show me a few links or articles. :) i would love to be wrong )

The "tool" is made to detect clipping, and that is what it does, get the most "clean" power out of a amp in a handy and simple device.

It's not made to measure power or to see if the driver can handle the power, that is not it's job.

You are saying tony d'amore isn't a good engineer? That the RF 30kw is a amp like all others?

Either fancy algorithm and only one set frequency or really fancy algorithm. 60to 1kHz is a HUGE range. Even still they aren't doing it right. (even .25Hz can make a huge difference depending on how the are approximating their algorithm)

You should re-read the thread. Scott himself came on and agreed with 95 and myself. Nick was not comparing the SAME power, but using more power in his clipped signal.

On top of that I NEVER said to research clipping, just how power is defined. It makes it VERY simple.

That tool was NOT meant to measure clipping, it can't. Not possible. How do you write an algorithm to look for a squared off wave and what are its limits? Clean power doesn't matter. The only thing that tool was meant to do was to make SM money. Has nothing to do with engineering, nor with the engineer that designed it. He did so based on SM market intelligence and not based on making a true tool. Stop reading into what is being said and instead take it at face value.

The thing is a HUGE waste of money. Completely ridiculous.

You're wrong.

It's not a range between 60 and 1khz. It's NOLY 1khz OR 60hz, nothing inbetween or around it.( so 2 set frequencies)

I don't know that much about writing algoritmes that complicated, but how do you make algoritmes for the "more advanced" tools to detect clipping? Because they work at all ranges.(almost all is what i mean.)

I don't know SM nor you, nor tony, but i do know the RF amp has good technology in it nor do you know SM or what his plans are.

I do believe he wants a tool for less "rich" people to detect clipping.

Until it comes out and nobody has tested it i will stay with my opinion and you with yours since that is what they are. :)

I didn't read the specs, not concerned, definitely won't work. Your opinion is based on emotion not science. I have worked with countless manufacturers on this exact measurement and know exactly what they use and how they determine it and know for a fact what it takes. This is definitely an approximation and a useless one at that.

Keep drinking the kool aid if you like.

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I talked tso the guy from Rockford that made the t15k and he said that the tool will be 98% accurate. I think he would have an idea what he is talking about considering he creates amps from Rockford

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I talked tso the guy from Rockford that made the t15k and he said that the tool will be 98% accurate. I think he would have an idea what he is talking about considering he creates amps from Rockford

LOL. Easy to solve. Ask SMD what algorithm they are using. If they can't or won't describe it, then its a lie.

Again, not necessary anyways. The amount of misinformation that is spread on that forum is absurd.

I'll give you another hint, no acoustic engineer would ever use a percentage but dB scale anyways....

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I'm sticking with my ears, haven't failed me yet!

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i don't know if you're trying to insult me, i don't know why you are trying to get personal, i"m just here for good info.

You still haven't shown me a link or a article that supports your opinion on clipping. So please show me.

A reason for using percentage is probably because he wants to explain it simple.

You only understand things properly if u can explain them in laymen's terms.(Einsteins words, and i agree.)

Seems like you are emotional, because you say SMD this, SMD that, Steve this, steve that... (not trying to argue with you, just saying what i read.)

(Excuse me for saying 30kw amp, it's the t15k, i was confused.)

Edited by kirill007

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anyone who wants REAL info on this product can come to my site and ask. I refuse to get into a pissing match with the know-it-alls in this thread.

Come to my site, post your theory on why it wont work, and i will get a straight answer. Here, you will just get some jackass, with a grudge against me, running his mouth. Just like BITCH ASS CA.com.

good day.

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by the way, this thing doesnt work like the stupid clip light on some amps and i will agree, just like Tony does, that THOSE are useless. This thing doesnt work like that. Its not a clip detector as much as a DISTORTION tester.

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why would i have a woofer with my name on it and not try to make money? why would i have a clipping tool and not try to make money? of course i am, the real question is do my products work and the answer is YES.

This is what SM says about the woofer selling and clipping selling, he makes money off it. :)

But he also says his products works for what it's intended for, it can't do the same things DMM's can do or O-scope's but it does it's job.

Woops, haven't seen he has answered himself. :peepwall:

Edited by kirill007

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:peepwall: Whoa, just read this whole thread.

How, could anyone bash and say it doesn't work unless they've tried it?

So far all I've seen is a bunch of opinions.....

Opinions are just that, opinions.

Not worth shit unless backed up by facts.

Somebody try it out, post up their findings, and then the evidence will speak for itself.

No need for bashing and name calling, it makes people like ignorant and or stupid.

Nobody learns anything from a pissing match!

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:peepwall: Whoa, just read this whole thread.

How, could anyone bash and say it doesn't work unless they've tried it?

So far all I've seen is a bunch of opinions.....

Opinions are just that, opinions.

Not worth shit unless backed up by facts.

Somebody try it out, post up their findings, and then the evidence will speak for itself.

No need for bashing and name calling, it makes people like ignorant and or stupid.

Nobody learns anything from a pissing match!

I agree.

I agree once again.(and i have said both these things, although in a different way...)

EDIT: i find it intresting that it's easy to talk shit behind someone's back, but once you see/hear him it stops.

Then people actually take the effort to ask things, instead of thinking about it and assuming.

Edited by kirill007

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If the price is right I will defo be making a purchase ;) Wonder how much it would cost, great concept though, well needed, wonder how big an amp you could scope with it??

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by the way, this thing doesnt work like the stupid clip light on some amps and i will agree, just like Tony does, that THOSE are useless. This thing doesnt work like that. Its not a clip detector as much as a DISTORTION tester.

That's a step in the right direction. So what level of distortion do you consider clipping and how are you calculating distortion?

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i don't know if you're trying to insult me,i don't know why you are trying to get personal, i"m just here for good info.

Nope, never my goal and I am not making this personal.

You still haven't shown me a link or a article that supports your opinion on clipping. So please show me.

ANY article on distortion will work. Pick your own poison. Why should I have to do research for you on something I already know?

A reason for using percentage is probably because he wants to explain it simple.

Seems like you are emotional, because you say SMD this, SMD that, Steve this, steve that... (not trying to argue with you, just saying what i read.)

Perhaps, dB's would make it sound better for him though so that's unusual.

I used SM in one response based on the real purpose of the unit, its for him to make money. Not sure how you took that as emotional, hell there is no judgement intrinsically in that statement either. Implied sure, but that is pretty much everyone's goal who sells anything.

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This should be priced at around $30 anything more and it would be a real big waste of money. I'd much rather have a good DMM then this and you can get a scope that will do more then you need for audio for $150.

DMMs check for clipping now? :orly3: Where the hell have I been? If youre talking about an oscope, where do you get them for $150 new with warranty? Hmm...

You post an ignorant post, you get an ignorant reply :woot:

Never said a DMM would test for clipping, but I would rather have a tool that is capable of doing more then one thing for the price. Then having something that does one thing and one thing only.suicide-santa.gif

Oscilloscope $150 http://www.tequipmen...an_hps10se.html

Your oscope might show "clipping" but unless it has a big high res display and you know what you are looking for your oscope isn't going to show distortion. This tool shows when an unacceptable amount of distortion is present, whether the distortion is caused by clipping or failed caps or noise. Many things can cause distortion

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Same reason clipping indicators are useless. Why not empower yourself and research distortion measurements. Then research what computation power it takes to build a real time analyzer in the frequency domain to do the calculations. Then realize how difficult it is if you do not exactly know the input frequency in the algorithm. Even more importantly, take a step back and read about average power, how and why it is defined and what little affect some clipping has on it. Completely useless and will not only give the wrong result but misinform people that they are doing it the right way. I despise the company/person bringing this to market. It is perhaps even a step worse than a capacitor. :( :( :(

Dear Mr. M5,

This tool measures DISTORTION. Yes it takes a lot of power to build a real time analyzer to measure distortion. That is what it does, that is why it works. On top of that I did it in 100% analog. This is not a toy, don't kid yourself or lead other people to think it is especially when you didn't know.

Tony D'Amore

D'Amore Engineering

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damn and i didnt even tell tony to come in here....i didnt want him to feel obligated to come argue with you guys only to spend the next week arguing.

if you woulda just asked nicely, even with your doubts, your concerns can be addressed like gentleman.

of course we are trying to make money, duhhh, but not from snake oil. This is a legit product. This thing would have been released a LONG time ago if it was JUST about money but we want a quality, WORKING, RELIABLE tool before it goes to market. Some lucky people will be chosen as beta testers to confirm everything is good.

by the way, i dont get rich off sales of my subwoofer, i get a small amount for licensing, a VERY small amount. I make a little more when i actually sell them AS A DEALER and let me tell you, i read/respond to probably 300-500 emails before i make a sale. Therefore i dont make shit for the amount of time i put into it.

just an FYI

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Same reason clipping indicators are useless. Why not empower yourself and research distortion measurements. Then research what computation power it takes to build a real time analyzer in the frequency domain to do the calculations. Then realize how difficult it is if you do not exactly know the input frequency in the algorithm. Even more importantly, take a step back and read about average power, how and why it is defined and what little affect some clipping has on it. Completely useless and will not only give the wrong result but misinform people that they are doing it the right way. I despise the company/person bringing this to market. It is perhaps even a step worse than a capacitor. :( :( :(

Dear Mr. M5,

This tool measures DISTORTION. Yes it takes a lot of power to build a real time analyzer to measure distortion. That is what it does, that is why it works. On top of that I did it in 100% analog. This is not a toy, don't kid yourself or lead other people to think it is especially when you didn't know.

Tony D'Amore

D'Amore Engineering

damn and i didnt even tell tony to come in here....i didnt want him to feel obligated to come argue with you guys only to spend the next week arguing.

if you woulda just asked nicely, even with your doubts, your concerns can be addressed like gentleman.

of course we are trying to make money, duhhh, but not from snake oil. This is a legit product. This thing would have been released a LONG time ago if it was JUST about money but we want a quality, WORKING, RELIABLE tool before it goes to market. Some lucky people will be chosen as beta testers to confirm everything is good.

by the way, i dont get rich off sales of my subwoofer, i get a small amount for licensing, a VERY small amount. I make a little more when i actually sell them AS A DEALER and let me tell you, i read/respond to probably 300-500 emails before i make a sale. Therefore i dont make shit for the amount of time i put into it.

just an FYI

Props for stopping in but you guys are wasting your time in here....it isnt worth arguing.

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Same reason clipping indicators are useless. Why not empower yourself and research distortion measurements. Then research what computation power it takes to build a real time analyzer in the frequency domain to do the calculations. Then realize how difficult it is if you do not exactly know the input frequency in the algorithm. Even more importantly, take a step back and read about average power, how and why it is defined and what little affect some clipping has on it. Completely useless and will not only give the wrong result but misinform people that they are doing it the right way. I despise the company/person bringing this to market. It is perhaps even a step worse than a capacitor. :( :( :(

Dear Mr. M5,

This tool measures DISTORTION. Yes it takes a lot of power to build a real time analyzer to measure distortion. That is what it does, that is why it works. On top of that I did it in 100% analog. This is not a toy, don't kid yourself or lead other people to think it is especially when you didn't know.

Tony D'Amore

D'Amore Engineering

Great step. Obviously my next question is what are you using to calculate distortion (ie which harmonics etc) and at what level you consider it clipping. Glad you took the time to come here, thanks. I apologize for sounding like I inferred it was a clipping indicator.

Waste of money, especially since clipping doesn't hurt anything...

This is comparable to buying a "Shake Weight" and thinking it will make you look like the guy on the box...

Of course even if it works I still don't see the value in knowing you are clipping for those that aren't chasing tenths on a meter.

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:peepwall: Whoa, just read this whole thread.

How, could anyone bash and say it doesn't work unless they've tried it?

So far all I've seen is a bunch of opinions.....

Opinions are just that, opinions.

Not worth shit unless backed up by facts.

Somebody try it out, post up their findings, and then the evidence will speak for itself.

No need for bashing and name calling, it makes people like ignorant and or stupid.

Nobody learns anything from a pissing match!

Some people are ALWAYS right. On this forum it is only one person.

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I like the fact that Im learning a few things from this thread.

:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

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I like the fact that Im learning a few things from this thread.

:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

You learned a FEW things? The only thing I learned was how to straight up bash a product without it being on the market yet and knowing nothing about it...

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