Strongest bonding agent for Steel to wood?

[shizzzon 461]

I have in the past been using Loctite Heavy Duty 2part epoxy for steel to wood and steel to steel...

I do not like it...

It sometimes adheres good enough to steel to steel but steel to wood.. it sucks.. I have broken the bonds so many times after days of let cure...

I need something GREAT!..

I had been pointed to contact cement... Is this a viable option?

I have recently looked at a product claiming to be the BEST bonding agent in the world.. practically.

It's called Mitrebond. It claims to glue everything to everything. They said it's actually a CA glue that has been widened for many things.

Pot time is 15seconds, hehe and comes with activator.

IT's $$$ for how much i need to use but i guess money doesn't matter.

Should i purchase this Mitrebond product or use contact cement or is there something else?

What i am doing is adhering steel runs to the car's frame. (some are actually welded but some others cannot be welded so they can be removed easily later. steel to wood comes into play when attaching walls of an enclosure to the steel itself.)

[ssh 924]

Could you bolt down steel plates to the wood

Then use your adhesive for steel to steel

[Tirefryr 1,742]

Contact cement won't do a damn thing. You need a mechanical fastener such as Stefan has suggested. If you absolutely can NOT use a mechanical fastener, you're only viable option is fiberglass and resin.

[Tirefryr 1,742]

And make sure it's epoxy resin.

[Dutchie. 10]

The best method I could think of is bolting the wood to the steel. As stated above there should be some method of mechanical fasteners. I have no heard, nor come across a product that could work effectively in bonding wood to steel, or any other type of metal.

[Tirefryr 1,742]

Epoxy resin will bond the two, but it should include glass as well.

[CrazyKenKid 64]

expanding foam if you need to hold something in place

[shizzzon 461]

Hey tirefryr, thanks for pointing me in the right direction..

I had first contacted just about every fiberglass shop around here and no one stocked epoxy resin, just polyester...

Well, seeing as how my build was inevitably going to be delayed again over simple stupid stuff, i told myself i'm gonna have to order this stuff online...

I remember 1 company who stuck in my head when it comes to resin.. US Composites.

So i call them and tell them exactly what i was trying to do, what i have done previously but mostly starts to fail and the auto environment and pressure\vibrations it will be susceptible too...

They told me right off the bat, Epoxy resin alone will fail in the summer and glassing would not be viable option as the adhesion needs to ONLY be between 2 materials, not around them.

The exoxy resin will soften in a car once temps reach 120F and will unbond materials..

Luckily, they have a solution.

Fasco 110 Epoxy Resin based glue (2 part).

He guarantees this stuff will bond anything to anything.

It's very thick and has a good pot life.

15min work time, 24hr cure.

Resists unbonding up to 350F and once bonded, glue does not allow materials to flex under pressure, keeps the bond perfectly still..

I was a little leary about that thinking it would be too brittle for an spl environment but they ensure me it is incredibly strong and nothing else would be a better solution.

Here is what it is-

http://www.uscomposi.../adhesives.html

[Dutchie. 10]

Hey tirefryr, thanks for pointing me in the right direction..

I had first contacted just about every fiberglass shop around here and no one stocked epoxy resin, just polyester...

Well, seeing as how my build was inevitably going to be delayed again over simple stupid stuff, i told myself i'm gonna have to order this stuff online...

I remember 1 company who stuck in my head when it comes to resin.. US Composites.

So i call them and tell them exactly what i was trying to do, what i have done previously but mostly starts to fail and the auto environment and pressure\vibrations it will be susceptible too...

They told me right off the bat, Epoxy resin alone will fail in the summer and glassing would not be viable option as the adhesion needs to ONLY be between 2 materials, not around them.

The exoxy resin will soften in a car once temps reach 120F and will unbond materials..

Luckily, they have a solution.

Fasco 110 Epoxy Resin based glue (2 part).

He guarantees this stuff will bond anything to anything.

It's very thick and has a good pot life.

15min work time, 24hr cure.

Resists unbonding up to 350F and once bonded, glue does not allow materials to flex under pressure, keeps the bond perfectly still..

I was a little leary about that thinking it would be too brittle for an spl environment but they ensure me it is incredibly strong and nothing else would be a better solution.

Here is what it is-

http://www.uscomposi.../adhesives.html

I would really like to see how well this stuff works. If you could do a log or something on it that would be great!

[shizzzon 461]

Stealin my ideas are you?

I just ordered it but they said it may take them 2 days to ship it.. i guess they have a 1000sq mi warehouse, lol.

Wait til next weekend, i'll definitely have used it by then.

[Dutchie. 10]

Stealin my ideas are you?

I just ordered it but they said it may take them 2 days to ship it.. i guess they have a 1000sq mi warehouse, lol.

Wait til next weekend, i'll definitely have used it by then.

Haha nooo

And that is a HUGE warehouse. Alrighty, next weekend sounds good.

[Tirefryr 1,742]

I don't know what kind of epoxy resin they have, but epoxy resin is used with carbon fiber. Do you pay any attention to Formula1? If so, you know their chassis are made entirely out of CF, and it encases the entire engine and drivetrain, including the exhaust which reaches upwards of 1200 degrees. Granted, it is pre-preg and more durable than what is commercially available to us, but even normal epoxy resin is incredibly durable. Epoxy resin is far more durable than polyester and polyester doesn't have any issues holding up to use in an automobile, or boat, or pool, or. . . I think you get the picture. I get all my resin from www.fiberglast.com

[Tirefryr 1,742]

I find it funny how they instead want you to use an epoxy-resin based glue, which is just epoxy resin with fillers, which would be the same as glassing. And if epoxy resin will delam at 120, why won't a product made from it do the same.

Either way, I hope it works for you.

[Spencerk 4]

just a thought but 3M makes something called panel bonding adhesive it is used in automotive apps....you can glue two pieces of sheet metal together and the bond is so strong that you will tear the steel before you can break the glue joint....its some crazy shit

[shizzzon 461]

honestly at this point.. if it's metal to metal anymore, i'm just gonna mig weld it.

And yea tirefryr, i know this glue is epoxy resin based but i was under the assumption that the fillers they are using with the resin has something to do with changing some of it's properties...

Either way, like dutchie wants, i'll post up what happens by the end of next weekend after it cures.

[Quentin Jarrell 671]

contact these people

http://www.hernon.com/hernonmfg/index.php

[Godsmack 360]

Looking forward to seeing this.............I may have a need for something similar so this might help alot.

J

[shizzzon 461]

Here is pics of the resin container. Hardener container says same thing...

[shizzzon 461]

Here is a picture of it in use approximately 8 minutes after applying it.

I will have another pic or video later on today when it's cured and final view of it tomorrow when it's completely cured.

[Adrian_D 520]

Why didn't you drill some holes in the steel and fasten it to the wood with wood screws ?

[shizzzon 461]

that wood in there isn't attached to anything.

It's just used as a filler just like the foam is, that's why. It wouldnt structurally help by screwing it together.

I need to continue to fill the area back there with foam.

I do this little by little until there is enough pressure on the outside shell of the car.

Right now, the exterior part of the car is pretty damn stiff! hehe, but there is just a minor amount of movement still left in the wood when i hit the car real hard.

Once it stops moving, then i'll quit foaming.

[Adrian_D 520]

that wood in there isn't attached to anything.

It's just used as a filler just like the foam is, that's why. It wouldnt structurally help by screwing it together.

I need to continue to fill the area back there with foam.

I do this little by little until there is enough pressure on the outside shell of the car.

Right now, the exterior part of the car is pretty damn stiff! hehe, but there is just a minor amount of movement still left in the wood when i hit the car real hard.

Once it stops moving, then i'll quit foaming.

Then how is gluing the wood to the steel any different than using screws ?

[shizzzon 461]

also, let me tell you what's goin on so u may understand better.

Even if the wood was attached, i still couldnt screw together.

That steel u see, that is the base for the side walls to be attached to.

how?

With this 2part glue and screws and a lot of foam... again, to fill in the small cavities once the side walls go up.

Since the 2x4s in the back are not attached but rather pressurized in the space behind the side walls, they will still aid in bracing the walls.

the steel is there to help minimize the flex the side walls may want to move and the 2x4s and foam are there to help prevent the steel from flexing.

There will also be steel ran inside the walls of this wall too to help prevent the wall from flexing inwards as well.

[Tirefryr 1,742]

Mechanical attachment is ALWAYS stronger than a bond. Only a chemical bond at a molecular level will be stronger, but then you have a different material altogether.

[shizzzon 461]

problem with this install is that volume is against me and that's something i have to combat.

So in doing so, i must attempt to save the most volume possible for this build.

The last wall i did, i didnt do that and wasnt too impressed with it but then again i wasnt expecting much since i built it to learn off of.

the steel is the base to attach the walls to so securing it via screws would allow the screws to protrude in front of the steel which won't be a good idea.

This install is.. different because to retain volume, the least amount of structural support is to be used.