4th order build continued (M5)

[lb187 9]

first off I have read many of M5's posts and to me its all intelligent criticism, you could call it being arrogant or douchebagish, but that just how some people give advise. Your commanding officer can be an ass all the time, yet hes the one thats going to keep you alive when you need it most. About the credentials, what I was trying to say is that, I could tell you that I own a shop, I'm a master MECP certified technician, won sooo many competitions and awards, but how is one to know what is truth and what isn't. credentials don't mean shit, especially on the web, so stop asking for them. what m5 and the others supporting him want are testing to disprove them. Not just saying that its a great sounding vehicle and it shakes the shit out of your chest. All it is is criticism, if you don't like it then shut up and keep doing what your doing. If you want to challenge it then by all means do the testing and see who's right. And if someone says that the physics state differently then you know that you have your proof that their wrong. You act as though criticism is the worst thing in the world, if I took every piece of criticism I've ever received to heart, I would have put a bullet in my brain already. I have seen no proof from your side as to why he is wrong other than a few lousy statements regarding the sound. I'm not saying that m5 is exempt, he may very well be lieing, but until I and the rest of the SSA community see proof or an explanation including all the evidence that he is wrong, nothing more can be said.

Well excuse me that on a build log that was posted M5 blasted the designer/builder.

"Someones math is confused, VERY confused. Its not gonna sound good."

That was his very first comment. That's constructive criticism?

Without rhyme or reason just blast the design because he "could have done it better" but he offers no advice. Just criticism.

As for credentials...

what does it take to be a "Tech crew" member???

Hours of sitting at a computer with programs and graphs?

Or actually "BUILDING" enclosures for 10 years.

I cant look up M5 anywhere to see what hes done except thousands of post on the internet.

As for the builder/dsigner??

Google, Db Unit, then You Tube Iamamp3pimp and when done check out BASSHEADS.ENT

Lets not talk about the hundreds of customers that are loud and sound good thanks to him. Why else would people defend the builder/designer if he didnt know his shit lol

hmmmmmmmm

Edited May 2, 2011 by Team Under Pressure-BigBoi

[///M5 2,833]

Well excuse me that on a build log that was posted M5 blasted the designer/builder.

"Someones math is confused, VERY confused. Its not gonna sound good."

That was his very first comment. That's constructive criticism?

Actually, that was not my first comment. The discussion started here:

On top of that, no where does that imply that it is the designer/builder I was stating was wrong, but the box itself. This surely could be from the owner misleading/pushing the designer in the wrong direction. The comment was pointed indeed, but being a continuation of a previous discussion it was logical. In particular when in the previous thread he himself even stated that the 4th order BP wasn't going to meet his goals. Obviously this would have stayed more productive had he chosen to continue the conversation there before jumping into a build, but that isn't the way it went.

One other clarification. My comment was before anyone posted any graph. The graph was posted to help clarify, not the other way around.

[surfdude10 2]

Why should they give their specs ??

So a more accurate response curve can be made, and they will finally realize that snake oil and fairy dust does not make an enclosure sound good.

They are winning competitions, not really needing to know if their design works or sounds good, and you are wanting to know what brand of snake oil and fairy dust they used ???

You docked me 2 rep points and this is all you can come up with Duran ??? Sounds like you are the one trying to discredit their build ... not M5 ...

I didn't vote anything down, I most certainly cannot vote you down twice either.

you personally giving duran shit, I hope they ban you. It's what you want anyways.

EDIT: Didnt mean to point that banning comment at you, reread the comments and saw it was someone else, didnt mean to be a dick. I just dont think that you should comment to the people that run this forum like that.

You got to understand something bro ... Me and Duran has had plenty of discussions before and came up with great conclusions every time ... You've got alot more reading to do bro, not just on this forum ...

I do not have anything against Duran, His post are very logical, professional, and clear to understand ...and this is why I questioned him on this one ... This set of post you quoted me on here has been corrected, Don' worry about it bro ...

Yeah I know I probably have more reading to do, I am on here for about 4 hours a day going through updated posts and what not. I just feel like this topic really should end because all its doing is ripping apart this forum. I chose to use this forum because everyone on here seems to be here because every other forum sucks ass. This was the one that got filtered out as a great forum in my mind. I am not worried I'm sure you and duran have worked it out. I am here to gain knowledge not argue. I hope that it can continue that way.

[Alan Palmer 3]

without argument, you make no progress. you have to be intelligent and giving in your arguments. hold true to the things you know as fact, and give on the things that you're unsure about.

now then, m5, why the hell would it take weeks for you to post that link? while it doesnt change everything you've said, it certainly makes a little difference. you at least started off pleasantly enough. however, in my experience, some of what you said is incorrect.. 4th orders are "normally" bigger than ported boxed. obviously there will be scenarios where that does not hold true, but there will be many scenarios where it does.

i can see that you had some form of constructive criticism way back when. so what happened to it? how can you go from that to deciding that a box wont work when you dont know all the other variables? and how in the HELL can you call out the designers and tell maliboom he needs to find new ones? absolutely nothing you post can change those situations, and THATS why you're on trial.

as for the whole credentials talk, its not that hard.

http://www.termpro.com/asp/competitorstats.asp?Competitor_ID=79589&Season=2011&Method=202

thats obviously not all of my history, but down at the bottom.. you'll see world finals, and the #2.

and the funny part is, that doesnt make me an expert at all. but it at least means i have an idea of what im talking about and im not some 30 year old man sitting in my mothers basement being keyboard commando. btw, m5, im not calling you a 30 yr old man sitting in your mothers basement.. lol.

[jcarter1885 994]

Some of yall are still crying the same song. Its funny how grown man get sand in their vaginas over what has been said on the internet, criticism or not who cares. This is the funniest stuff I see on forums right here, the bickering over some words (can we say cheer leaders table at the lunch room in a high school).

The builders arent responding, nobody is putting the car on the term lab. Even if the car is on the term lab the results can be tweaked or the system can be tuned to make it have a flat response so that wont help anything. Just let it die already.

Florida keep building 4th orders and being loud and doing things out of the norm, its that simple. Really who cares? If you do what will it prove honestly.

[Alan Palmer 3]

i wish i was loud... :/

maybe its because i have a ported wall, instead of a 4th order. hmmm... no. its just because im doomed to never be loud.

[jcarter1885 994]

i wish i was loud... :/

maybe its because i have a ported wall, instead of a 4th order. hmmm... no. its just because im doomed to never be loud.

Me too since Im steady rebuilding and cant keep equipment for more than a month without selling it. Sorry to hear about your audio troubles bud, you will be loud soon.

[Duran 387]

i wish i was loud... :/

maybe its because i have a ported wall, instead of a 4th order. hmmm... no. its just because im doomed to never be loud.

You have a 4th order.

[Alan Palmer 3]

i wish i was loud... :/

maybe its because i have a ported wall, instead of a 4th order. hmmm... no. its just because im doomed to never be loud.

You have a 4th order.

i lold. still not loud. partially because of the back wall i split in half, partially because of the 7 of 8 screws holding bottom drivers side sub in that i snapped, partially because of me being alan palmer and never being loud. ever.

which is fine, seeing as im co-founder of the Quiet Crew.

[kirill007 52]

Grow up fellas.

....

I was merely making an observation, which seems to be a reoccurring theme where M5 continues to be an abrasive, opinionated person who makes no effort to act the way a moderator should. 46k posts and I'd bet half of them are belittling and insulting people while seemingly trying to provide "help".

No matter how smart he seems, the dude is a pretty big douche most of the time. He thinks he's above everybody...it's pretty easy to see by his actions.

I've seen quite a lot of posts and he has much more informative posts then these kind of posts in this thread where he has to defend himself because people don't understand him. M5 sometimes writes things that are difficult to comprehend.

Just read through this whole thread, all 10 pages. All that I can see is a bunch of guys ganging up on the moderaters of the website that we all use and appreciate. Just because someone has questioned your abilities doesnt mean you have to retailiate with arseho comments and yet to be proven success(true SQ, not just "I sat in the car and it sounds awesome" that doesn't mean its accurate). It was stated that ///M5 was trying to tell you that the design could use some changes, and you took that strait to your heart. Grow up, learn how to take criticism and use it to improve your ideas. Obviously if M5 has been appointed a moderator and tech team member on this website, his credibility should not be questioned. I'm sure if you wanted to be appointed in that position, you would need to show some credibility too. But credibility on the internet means nothing, people spit lies out there fingertips all the time. He's the first person to question your abilities and all you do it get offensive and show no real proof that he's wrong. You keep saying he's sidestepping your questions, when in reality, hes trying to get you to understand that, he doesnt need to show credibility, he wants real proof. And all you seem to do is sidestep his requests. Run the sweep of tones and it will put this stupid argument to rest.

Colered is the important stuff, seems like some people don't read it, so i used colors to make sure they read it.

.. previous quote.

so.. you posted to tell us that if someone is a moderator on a website, they obviously have credentials, but having credentials on the internet is pointless because people lie all the time.. soo..... once you figure out what you really want to say, feel free to try again.

You don't get it don't you? Having credentials on the internet is useless, but if one of the owners of the site know him and seen what he has done or what kind of work he does, that makes him have good credentials.

and its "straight", not strait.

Seems like you try to make people feel less...That's why someone said that arseho comments are made.

and "defensive" not "offensive".. offended maybe.. but i digress.

Same thing, trying to point out the little things and not admit the whole reply on itself is correct.

first off I have read many of M5's posts and to me its all intelligent criticism, you could call it being arrogant or douchebagish, but that just how some people give advise. Your commanding officer can be an ass all the time, yet hes the one thats going to keep you alive when you need it most. About the credentials, what I was trying to say is that, I could tell you that I own a shop, I'm a master MECP certified technician, won sooo many competitions and awards, but how is one to know what is truth and what isn't. credentials don't mean shit, especially on the web, so stop asking for them. what m5 and the others supporting him want are testing to disprove them. Not just saying that its a great sounding vehicle and it shakes the shit out of your chest. All it is is criticism, if you don't like it then shut up and keep doing what your doing. If you want to challenge it then by all means do the testing and see who's right. And if someone says that the physics state differently then you know that you have your proof that their wrong. You act as though criticism is the worst thing in the world, if I took every piece of criticism I've ever received to heart, I would have put a bullet in my brain already. I have seen no proof from your side as to why he is wrong other than a few lousy statements regarding the sound. I'm not saying that m5 is exempt, he may very well be lieing, but until I and the rest of the SSA community see proof or an explanation including all the evidence that he is wrong, nothing more can be said.

colors..most important, because people read over it.

Well excuse me that on a build log that was posted M5 blasted the designer/builder.

"Someones math is confused, VERY confused. Its not gonna sound good."

That was his very first comment. That's constructive criticism?

Without rhyme or reason just blast the design because he "could have done it better" but he offers no advice. Just criticism.

As for credentials...

what does it take to be a "Tech crew" member???

Hours of sitting at a computer with programs and graphs?

Or actually "BUILDING" enclosures for 10 years.

I cant look up M5 anywhere to see what hes done except thousands of post on the internet.

As for the builder/dsigner??

Google, Db Unit, then You Tube Iamamp3pimp and when done check out BASSHEADS.ENT

Lets not talk about the hundreds of customers that are loud and sound good thanks to him. Why else would people defend the builder/designer if he didnt know his shit lol

hmmmmmmmm

Talking shit is what this quote is all about.. Reread what M5 wrote. He wrote that the math isn't correct,you should redo it. He didn't say: "THat sounds llike total shit , it will never work, break it out yo, you need some ho's to make it louder...

without argument, you make no progress. you have to be intelligent and giving in your arguments. hold true to the things you know as fact, and give on the things that you're unsure about.

now then, m5, why the hell would it take weeks for you to post that link? while it doesnt change everything you've said, it certainly makes a little difference. you at least started off pleasantly enough. however, in my experience, some of what you said is incorrect.. 4th orders are "normally" bigger than ported boxed. obviously there will be scenarios where that does not hold true, but there will be many scenarios where it does.

i can see that you had some form of constructive criticism way back when. so what happened to it? how can you go from that to deciding that a box wont work when you dont know all the other variables? and how in the HELL can you call out the designers and tell maliboom he needs to find new ones? absolutely nothing you post can change those situations, and THATS why you're on trial.

as for the whole credentials talk, its not that hard.

http://www.termpro.com/asp/competitorstats.asp?Competitor_ID=79589&Season=2011&Method=202

thats obviously not all of my history, but down at the bottom.. you'll see world finals, and the #2.

and the funny part is, that doesnt make me an expert at all. but it at least means i have an idea of what im talking about and im not some 30 year old man sitting in my mothers basement being keyboard commando. btw, m5, im not calling you a 30 yr old man sitting in your mothers basement.. lol.

That's why he said "similar" instead of just similar.( do you see the difference? )

Not everyone competes or builds things for themselves.

They build for other people, design for companies behind the curtains.

I think i wasted to much time for the thread, but i wouldn't want M5 to leave because some people don't know how to read his comments.

He has a serious amount of knowledge , certainly in the top 10 of this site.

But he doesn't like to give the total answer, he wants people to search for themselves.

Kind of weird that M's reputation is 365, this means he has done quite a lot of good responses.

Edited May 2, 2011 by kirill007

[Darkjustice 0]

Talking shit is what this quote is all about.. Reread what M5 wrote. He wrote that the math isn't correct,you should redo it. He didn't say: "THat sounds llike total shit , it will never work, break it out yo, you need some ho's to make it louder...

he was also asked HOW it was incorrect. and he did say it would sound like shit

[mlstrass 1]

Welcome to M5.com, tis why I left several years ago. Book smart with no real world experience but his "word" is gospel around here. I used to waste my time offering advice and dared to go against what he said, so he started PM'ing me because I dared to speak out against the great Oz....

[cobra93 47]

The only experience I've had with M5 in one of my threads was a positive one.

He asked for more information on my goals, the placement I had to work with and what the rest of the system consisted of, he was very clear on what info. he wanted/needed to help me.

I provided the info. in the next couple of posts. He then pointed me in the right direction and I did the work/testing, it was my project after all.

I've seen plenty of threads where the OP gives no info. but wants all the answers, it gets irritating.

If you put forth the effort to pose an intelligent question, you will receive some useful answers. You may need to do some searching to understand the answer, but you at least have some a direction to find them.

Let me say this also, "YOU ARE NOT OWED ANYTHING". Allot of people think they are, and this is not directed at anyone in particular.

The one reoccurring thing I see from M5's posts is to stop misinformation, I thank him for that, along with others on this forum.

I appreciate the fact that he wants you to think/learn for yourself, not blindly follow someones advice.

Isn't it better to understand what you're doing then to do it because someone else has?

[Darkjustice 0]

The only experience I've had with M5 in one of my threads was a positive one.

He asked for more information on my goals, the placement I had to work with and what the rest of the system consisted of, he was very clear on what info. he wanted/needed to help me.

I provided the info. in the next couple of posts. He then pointed me in the right direction and I did the work/testing, it was my project after all.

I've seen plenty of threads where the OP gives no info. but wants all the answers, it gets irritating.

If you put forth the effort to pose an intelligent question, you will receive some useful answers. You may need to do some searching to understand the answer, but you at least have some a direction to find them.

Let me say this also, "YOU ARE NOT OWED ANYTHING". Allot of people think they are, and this is not directed at anyone in particular.

The one reoccurring thing I see from M5's posts is to stop misinformation, I thank him for that, along with others on this forum.

I appreciate the fact that he wants you to think/learn for yourself, not blindly follow someones advice.

Isn't it better to understand what you're doing then to do it because someone else has?

he posted what he had to say in a build log where someone was just posting pics if their build that a professional/ someone with alot more experience was doing. the op had another thread where he asked opinions on another box i believe, but not about his current wall. and the op didnt ask any questions during his build log that required M5 to be as he was, or anyone else for that matter. and the log wasnt even full of misinformation given he wasnt posting it to teach anyone, nor was it there to ask questions about a build that was already in progress. now if M5 wouldve posted some of his less insulting statements in the thread he posted then it would be different. and thats because the OP was asking for suggestions and advice.

[Impious 1,476]

as for the whole credentials talk, its not that hard.

http://www.termpro.c...2011&Method=202

thats obviously not all of my history, but down at the bottom.. you'll see world finals, and the #2.

and the funny part is, that doesnt make me an expert at all. but it at least means i have an idea of what im talking about

Honestly, no it doesn't. That's not an insult to you in particular, anyone who successfully competes or operates a business designing enclosures. We've had this (or a similar) discussion before on this forum, ask Cableguy

In the SQ arena I've seen many well respected world champions who've been praised for their installation and tuning abilities for many years speak misinformation and hold on to beliefs which were very much against the facts. Were they "right" because they could point to 10 systems that they've installed and tuned that won competitions, or because they have a shelf of trophies themselves? No, they weren't. Their information was just as wrong, regardless of their "credentials".

The point is, credentials aren't part of the discussion. They have no place in it. They aren't relevant. Information is accurate or inaccurate, "right" or "wrong", regardless of the credentials of the person providing the information. Having credentials they can point to doesn't make their information any more right, and not providing credentials doesn't make their information any less right.

Does it matter if M5 is a 30 year old keyboard commando sitting in his mom's basement if the information he's providing is accurate? No, it doesn't matter at all. The information can stand on it's own, regardless of the credentials of the poster. That goes for people on both sides of the discussion; M5, Robin, yourself, etc. If the information they're providing is accurate, then it's accurate regardless of the credentials of the person providing the information. If it's inaccurate, then it's just as inaccurate regardless of the credentials of the poster.

This is the Argument from Authority I mentioned earlier. Information isn't inherently "correct" just because it's coming from someone assumed to be an authority. Conversely, information isn't incorrect just because it comes from someone not assumed to be an authority. It's a logically flawed argument. If the information is accurate or inaccurate, then it can be demonstrated to be such regardless of who's providing the information. Credentials have nothing to do with the validity of information.

[cobra93 47]

The only experience I've had with M5 in one of my threads was a positive one.

He asked for more information on my goals, the placement I had to work with and what the rest of the system consisted of, he was very clear on what info. he wanted/needed to help me.

I provided the info. in the next couple of posts. He then pointed me in the right direction and I did the work/testing, it was my project after all.

I've seen plenty of threads where the OP gives no info. but wants all the answers, it gets irritating.

If you put forth the effort to pose an intelligent question, you will receive some useful answers. You may need to do some searching to understand the answer, but you at least have some a direction to find them.

Let me say this also, "YOU ARE NOT OWED ANYTHING". Allot of people think they are, and this is not directed at anyone in particular.

The one reoccurring thing I see from M5's posts is to stop misinformation, I thank him for that, along with others on this forum.

I appreciate the fact that he wants you to think/learn for yourself, not blindly follow someones advice.

Isn't it better to understand what you're doing then to do it because someone else has?

he posted what he had to say in a build log where someone was just posting pics if their build that a professional/ someone with alot more experience was doing. the op had another thread where he asked opinions on another box i believe, but not about his current wall. and the op didnt ask any questions during his build log that required M5 to be as he was, or anyone else for that matter. and the log wasnt even full of misinformation given he wasnt posting it to teach anyone, nor was it there to ask questions about a build that was already in progress. now if M5 wouldve posted some of his less insulting statements in the thread he posted then it would be different. and thats because the OP was asking for suggestions and advice.

I posted my experience with M5, not anyone else's.

The misinformation was a general thing I've seen from M5 and was not directed at you. It seems as though you're looking for an argument, to me anyway.

Trying to make sense of your reply is making my brain hurt. Do you read what you've typed after you've typed it? I'm not trying to be an ass, but that is hard to read.

Well, his statement about the math being wrong got your attention. Didn't it?

If I didn't know how to do the calculations and was relying on someone else, I'd most definitely start to ask some questions if it's my money on the line. Wouldn't you?

I understand M5 can be hard to take, but the bottom line is that if you ask for help he'll give you help in his own fashion. When he sees that you're making an effort, he's more forthcoming.

If you can't see that, ignore him. He's helped allot of members and you'll not change the minds of the ones that he's helped.

[cobra93 47]

as for the whole credentials talk, its not that hard.

http://www.termpro.c...2011&Method=202

thats obviously not all of my history, but down at the bottom.. you'll see world finals, and the #2.

and the funny part is, that doesnt make me an expert at all. but it at least means i have an idea of what im talking about

Honestly, no it doesn't. That's not an insult to you in particular, anyone who successfully competes or operates a business designing enclosures. We've had this (or a similar) discussion before on this forum, ask Cableguy

In the SQ arena I've seen many well respected world champions who've been praised for their installation and tuning abilities for many years speak misinformation and hold on to beliefs which were very much against the facts. Were they "right" because they could point to 10 systems that they've installed and tuned that won competitions, or because they have a shelf of trophies themselves? No, they weren't. Their information was just as wrong, regardless of their "credentials".

The point is, credentials aren't part of the discussion. They have no place in it. They aren't relevant. Information is accurate or inaccurate, "right" or "wrong", regardless of the credentials of the person providing the information. Having credentials they can point to doesn't make their information any more right, and not providing credentials doesn't make their information any less right.

Does it matter if M5 is a 30 year old keyboard commando sitting in his mom's basement if the information he's providing is accurate? No, it doesn't matter at all. The information can stand on it's own, regardless of the credentials of the poster. That goes of people on both sides of the discussion; M5, Robin, yourself, etc. If the information they're providing is accurate, then it's accurate regardless of the credentials of the person providing the information. If it's inaccurate, then it's just as inaccurate regardless of the credentials of the poster.

This is the Argument from Authority I mentioned earlier. Information isn't inherently "correct" just because it's coming from someone assumed to be an authority. Conversely, information isn't incorrect just because it comes from someone not assumed to be an authority. It's a logically flawed argument. If the information is accurate or inaccurate, then it can be demonstrated to be such regardless of who's providing the information. Credentials have nothing to do with the validity of information.

Very well said.

[Alan Palmer 3]

IF it were accurate, you're right. but alas, he cant prove hes accurate.

before you get all gung ho again, read it all.

maliboom will probably post up the numbers at some point. when? idk. but numbers will be shown in some fashion or another. that will be his side of the proof. and hopefully the only "proof" that matters... doubt it, but we can hope.

what i was getting at in my first sentence.. he can not give an accurate presumption of how that box will act and perform inside of a specific vehicle. he can, and did, give a mathematical and scientific assumption on how the box would act without any exterior variables, but not dealing with anything outside of the actual box its self.

how many times have you taken a box out of a car thats doing 140 db at 30 hrtz, put it in another car, and its suddenly doing 133s at 40 hrtz? it happens. vehicles make a huge difference in outcome. and whilst experience does not constitute perfection, it does overcome theory.

if a world champion sq guy was telling me that he does things backwards and angles things the wrong way, and its working, i wouldnt doubt him simply because his methods are backwards. in the end, the results are all that matter.

[cobra93 47]

Who was this ^^^^^ post directed at, anyone in particular or no?

Yes, it can be proven that it's accurate, that is factual. I thought that was the other side of the debate (opposite of M5).

However, accurate or not doesn't mean it sounds good to you or anyone else, that's subjective.

[Alan Palmer 3]

Who was this ^^^^^ post directed at, anyone in particular or no?

Yes, it can be proven that it's accurate, that is factual. I thought that was the other side of the debate (opposite of M5).

However, accurate or not doesn't mean it sounds good to you or anyone else, that's subjective.

it was kind of a basic reply to everyone. lol.

and no. if you read the whole post, HE can not prove it. unless of course he has the same exact car, in the same exact scenario, with the same exact build... the math behind m5s argument is factual, but irrelevant to a real life, in car build.

as for it sounding good, you're right. that is subjective. as such, m5 shouldnt say it sounds bad (especially when never actually hearing it) and maliboom shouldnt say it sounds good. it sounds good "to him". others have said it sounds good "to them". but as a generalization, thats something that has to be decided each and every time by each specific person.

[cobra93 47]

Who was this ^^^^^ post directed at, anyone in particular or no?

Yes, it can be proven that it's accurate, that is factual. I thought that was the other side of the debate (opposite of M5).

However, accurate or not doesn't mean it sounds good to you or anyone else, that's subjective.

it was kind of a basic reply to everyone. lol.

and no. if you read the whole post, HE can not prove it. unless of course he has the same exact car, in the same exact scenario, with the same exact build... the math behind m5s argument is factual, but irrelevant to a real life, in car build.

as for it sounding good, you're right. that is subjective. as such, m5 shouldnt say it sounds bad (especially when never actually hearing it) and maliboom shouldnt say it sounds good. it sounds good "to him". others have said it sounds good "to them". but as a generalization, thats something that has to be decided each and every time by each specific person.

No sir, that's my point. If it's accurate it can be proven with a meter. This is where M5 is coming from.

If the OP stated that he wanted sound quality, then it should fit a specific set of goals. Those goals could be no more then 3 db. variance throughout the enclosures range, in the vehicle. Nobody cares what it sounds like outside of the intended vehicle.

This can most certainly be measured.

This also doesn't mean that it will sound good or meet the OP goals. I'd assume most people would not like a system that falls within this criteria. Even M5 has stated that a flat frequency response, "sound like shit". I'm at least 95% sure he has stated this in the past.

Goals that were stated don't add up to M5's interpretation of the pics/design he saw and he was compelled to say something to get "your" attention. He did exactly that.

Whether or not the questions that were asked by the OP or the builder had enough info. for M5 to give an intelligent reply, I don't know. I'd have to go back and read the original thread again.

[Darkjustice 0]

I posted my experience with M5, not anyone else's.

The misinformation was a general thing I've seen from M5 and was not directed at you. It seems as though you're looking for an argument, to me anyway.

Trying to make sense of your reply is making my brain hurt. Do you read what you've typed after you've typed it? I'm not trying to be an ass, but that is hard to read.

Well, his statement about the math being wrong got your attention. Didn't it?

If I didn't know how to do the calculations and was relying on someone else, I'd most definitely start to ask some questions if it's my money on the line. Wouldn't you?

I understand M5 can be hard to take, but the bottom line is that if you ask for help he'll give you help in his own fashion. When he sees that you're making an effort, he's more forthcoming.

If you can't see that, ignore him. He's helped allot of members and you'll not change the minds of the ones that he's helped.

i know you were going off your experience, but i was going based off of what lead to this thread. M5 came into malilbooms build log talkin about he was bombing it for misinformation despite maliboom not trying to teach anyone with his log just show his build. and i was acknowledging that M5 approached him in a positive way in the link he posted when maliboom was ASKING for suggestions, but even then that thread wasnt about his current wall. if M5 can supply concrete proof as to how hes right, or even how he came to his conclusions maybe things can go in another direction. but so far he refuses to even do that, and it was asked before the shitstorm started. for all i know his math COULD be right, but how can anyone know without him explaining it. also should point out again that the wall isnt like the pictures that were posted. i dont know if the specs are the same or not though

Edited May 3, 2011 by Mr. Darkjustice

[kirill007 52]

It's quite easy to know why he said it will sound like shit.

See that it has a peak at 47hz +6db.(logical that it's at 47hz, because that's what it's tuned to)

The peak or resonant freqeuncy is close to it, so you get a huge spike around that frequency.

I haven't found the correct resonant freq. but i assume it is above 42hz and under 55hz.

Edited May 3, 2011 by kirill007

[eggyhustles 33]

The only experience I've had with M5 in one of my threads was a positive one.

X2. I have the upmost respect for M5 since he doesn't sugarcoat. More forums need members like him imo.

[ralstonballa2413 20]

Why is everyone so angry about what his opinion is on the design or what he believes should have been done to make this a better design to him? If the person is happy with the enclosure then why should he care about other people's opinions on what he could have done differently? Not everyone is going to agree with everyone else so why take it so strongly what ///M5 says? You say he has no credentials so why would you care about the opinion of someone with no credentials? If I were to say the same comment I'm sure no one would have cared or made a big deal about it... Let him have his opinion and you can have your own. There will never be a way to make everyone agree so why not just be happy with what you have and enjoy it like it was intended to be in the first place?