Help me with my setup.. mids/highs/highs amp

[JustinW 0]

alright.. so this is probably less complicated than I am making it... so i'll list the gear I plan to use first:

Currently using a Kenwood KDC-MP435U with an aux for mp3 players.

Wanting to switch to IF needed:

Eclipse CD5100 with/without a EQ1000 - Eclipse 6 Band 1/2 DIN Equalizer/Crossover

lows - 2 15" Dayton MKIII

mids/extended/ midtweet - 8 http://www.parts-express.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=290-212&scqty=6

highs - 4 http://www.parts-express.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=275-035&scqty=4

Sub amp - Proto sundown 1800 @ 1 ohm

Mid Amp - Proto sundown 75x4 @ 4 ohm

Highs Amp - Eclipse EA1412 15x4 @ 4 ohm

here is my problem. I have never done crossovers/EQs etc and always had shops do this for me when I got all my gear ready. I have no idea what I need for certain to make this all work so i'm trying to figure out what to crossover at for my mids/extended range and my tweets and also need help with the eclipse amp. The only setting it has on it is a H-L sensitivity switch which I was told is like a gain by someone on car audio. I was told I could use FMODs to block out the frequencies and I was also told I could probably do it with the headunit itself so i am confused at this point as to what all I need and im looking for advice from the people on here.

I have plenty of electrical for the setup, a yellowtop - 240 amp stinger alt 1/0 to back with 4awg distro and four shuriken BT20s.

I am unsure on if I need the 1/2 din in there or not but it was just something I was looking at if the headunit wasn't able to help either.

Someone help me, I really would like to get this all installed soon.

If pics of the eclipse amp are needed, just let me know.. lots of pics of it can be found on google though.

hope I cleared up what im asking for.. any help appreciated. I had originally planned to just run them all off the proto 4 channel but I got the eclipse for really cheap and want to incorporate it.

[Impious 1,476]

How and why did you choose that speaker combination?

Where are all of the speakers going to be located?

What crossover functions, frequency range and slope does the Sundown amp have?

Does your HU have any built in crossovers? If so, what is their frequency range and slope?

[JustinW 0]

How and why did you choose that speaker combination?

Where are all of the speakers going to be located?

What crossover functions, frequency range and slope does the Sundown amp have?

Does your HU have any built in crossovers? If so, what is their frequency range and slope?

1. Was going with all dayton, watched a ton of videos of people on youtube using them in their audio systems and seen a few competing in FCBC using them ( the 4" ) in theirs with success, I just added tweets alone where they had coaxials and such doing their highs. The range of extended mids and tweets as far as i've seen should be fine.

2. I'm placing them above the box in a baffle facing forward, I am not to caring for direction and such, i'm just going for loud everything.

3. not sure as it hasn't arrived yet( assuming you mean the 75x4 ) - I got it from LoudWhat? The guy has probably owned more sundown than any other person out there and afaik is very well known when referring to sundown. He had it in his family vehicle though when I purchased it.

4. No Clue if it does or not.. it came with the vehicle, I listed the model number so it could be looked up by someone that knows this sort of stuff. As I said, always had shop setup everything I installed, this was my first attempt at doing it myself.

Edited July 14, 2011 by Arsenal

[JustinW 0]

Top

[Kanaworm$ 292]

You may want to reconsider on the mids and highs. If your going for pure loudness then I would look at doing something like the new Sundown Neo-Pro 8" mid/midbass drivers. Very loud and sound great imo.

[JustinW 0]

Not with the power I have or the size I'm wanting. I'm staying with what I picked. Just wanting help and advice on hooking it all up

[altoncustomtech 773]

If the 75x4 is a sundown amp, find out if it has the same crossover controls the 100.4 does. If it's built like the 100.4 then it can handle the active setup you're striving to go with. If it doesn't then you'll need either a HU with at least crossover controls built in or an external crossover. Better than any of those options would be a processor like the MS8 or Audiocontrol DQX or the DQXS. There's others but I can't remember them right now, lol.

[Impious 1,476]

Better than any of those options would be a processor like the MS8 or Audiocontrol DQX or the DQXS.

Those would be overboard for this setup. It's not going to sound "good" regardless, so he just needs to keep things from breaking.

Anyways, we can't tell you what you need until we know what you are already working with. So I guess you need to atleast find out the requested info about the crossover section in the Sundown amp before we can answer your question.

[jcarter1885 995]

I personally would take it to a shop especially since this is your first time doing an install. Your attempting to run active with no direction or knowledge on what your doing, this will cause more harm to your speakers and wallet. Im not saying its out of your league but you will not get it right the first try and tuning an active setup is more than just installing and setting the amps/headunit correctly. It will take some extensive listening to get the setup where it should be.

If you insist on doing it yourself then fine some bass blockers for your tweeters, that match the ohm load/power rating/tweeters lowest frequency response. You will wire these bass blockers in line with the positive speaker wire between amp and speaker. Set the amp on HPF and set the gain to match the output voltage of your headunit (if its 2 volts gain match your amp at 2 volts).

As for mids, you can set your amp at HPF around 60 or 80hz depending on how you low you want your mids to play. If you dont to use your amps settings then set it at Full and use your radio's settings to pick a crossover point.

This is the general on how to tune but in now way shape or form is it standard or if it all will apply to your application.

Here's an example of a bass blocker for your tweeters but this frequency response cutoff is too high for your applicaiton, so find something else:

http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_24358_PAC-BB-6PR-Black.html

[JustinW 0]

I personally would take it to a shop especially since this is your first time doing an install. Your attempting to run active with no direction or knowledge on what your doing, this will cause more harm to your speakers and wallet. Im not saying its out of your league but you will not get it right the first try and tuning an active setup is more than just installing and setting the amps/headunit correctly. It will take some extensive listening to get the setup where it should be.

If you insist on doing it yourself then fine some bass blockers for your tweeters, that match the ohm load/power rating/tweeters lowest frequency response. You will wire these bass blockers in line with the positive speaker wire between amp and speaker. Set the amp on HPF and set the gain to match the output voltage of your headunit (if its 2 volts gain match your amp at 2 volts).

As for mids, you can set your amp at HPF around 60 or 80hz depending on how you low you want your mids to play. If you dont to use your amps settings then set it at Full and use your radio's settings to pick a crossover point.

This is the general on how to tune but in now way shape or form is it standard or if it all will apply to your application.

Here's an example of a bass blocker for your tweeters but this frequency response cutoff is too high for your applicaiton, so find something else:

http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_24358_PAC-BB-6PR-Black.html

that's what the FMOD's do, they are RCA hookup that don't allow anything below/above certain frequencies toward the speakers on the amp, I was going to get the high pass 3500hz ones for my eclipse amp, the 4 channel sundown I just received today.. once I get the rest of the gear in i'll take clear pictures of everything and come back to the thread.. I know how to run active, i've just never done it and wanted to know how to make the eclipse amp work for just my tweets but it' seems i've answered myself with the FMODs idea I planned to originally go with.

[jcarter1885 995]

that's what the FMOD's do, they are RCA hookup that don't allow anything below/above certain frequencies toward the speakers on the amp, I was going to get the high pass 3500hz ones for my eclipse amp, the 4 channel sundown I just received today.. once I get the rest of the gear in i'll take clear pictures of everything and come back to the thread.. I know how to run active, i've just never done it and wanted to know how to make the eclipse amp work for just my tweets but it' seems i've answered myself with the FMODs idea I planned to originally go with.

If you know how to run active then what is the point of this thread, not trying to be rude or anything. Saying you know how to run active and never doing is not the same as actually being able to run active successfully, been there and done that. Its more than just picking speakers out and trying to find crossover points before installing the speakers in the car.

[altoncustomtech 773]

Better than any of those options would be a processor like the MS8 or Audiocontrol DQX or the DQXS.

Those would be overboard for this setup. It's not going to sound "good" regardless, so he just needs to keep things from breaking.

Oh believe me I know, but he's already stated that he just wants to hear answers about what he wants to hear and not listen to any good recommendations to what he should be doing, so I gave him an answer.

I know I may sound like a dick to some in that statement, but it's true, we're all really here trying to help.

[JustinW 0]

Better than any of those options would be a processor like the MS8 or Audiocontrol DQX or the DQXS.

Those would be overboard for this setup. It's not going to sound "good" regardless, so he just needs to keep things from breaking.

Oh believe me I know, but he's already stated that he just wants to hear answers about what he wants to hear and not listen to any good recommendations to what he should be doing, so I gave him an answer.

I know I may sound like a dick to some in that statement, but it's true, we're all really here trying to help.

it didn't help, not to be rude.. but it didn't answer what I was asking either. I wanted advice on how i could make it work.. not other options which is about all i've gotten. It sounded dickish to me.. but that's only if it mattered, it adds nothing to the thread so.. it doesn't.

Edited July 15, 2011 by Arsenal

[altoncustomtech 773]

Better than any of those options would be a processor like the MS8 or Audiocontrol DQX or the DQXS.

Those would be overboard for this setup. It's not going to sound "good" regardless, so he just needs to keep things from breaking.

Oh believe me I know, but he's already stated that he just wants to hear answers about what he wants to hear and not listen to any good recommendations to what he should be doing, so I gave him an answer.

I know I may sound like a dick to some in that statement, but it's true, we're all really here trying to help.

it didn't help, not to be rude.. but it didn't answer what I was asking either. I wanted advice on how i could make it work.. not other options which is about all i've gotten. It sounded dickish to me.. but that's only if it mattered, it adds nothing to the thread so.. it doesn't.

If what I answered to you in post #7 isn't of any help, then I'm not sure how better to help you. The FMOD's are designed to be used when no crossover is available at all or for some reason unable to be used. They're by no means supposed to be used to replace good crossovers in an active setup. If the Sundown 4 channel proto has the good crossovers in it, it will be basic, but do what you need them to do. Of course with the right HU or external crossover it can help much more with good crossover and EQ adjustments. I understand that your only wanting it to get loud, but don't you at least want it to sound decent too? Youtube videos do NOTHING to tell anyone how good or bad a stereo sounds, which is why a lot of people on here despise what Youtube videos have done to the car audio hobby.

I also appreciate your candor in your response as well. We're all adults here and it's good to see adult type responses to things we don't agree with. +1 for that sir...

[///M5 2,833]

IIRC Fmods are just simple 1st order crossovers that won't really do much in particular with what you purchased.

To get what you have to "work" you will need to bandpass the mid and hp the tweet. It will still be seriously lacking in midrange and midbass. Those drivers do not match well together at all and really don't make a good "set" which is why you are getting flak in your thread.

I read this as I bought two left shoes, but how can I tie them on my feet so I don't have to return them. Just isn't a logical solution. In that analogy consider an Fmod a different shoelace that is horribly expensive, which of course doesn't really fix the concern.

[JustinW 0]

IIRC Fmods are just simple 1st order crossovers that won't really do much in particular with what you purchased.

To get what you have to "work" you will need to bandpass the mid and hp the tweet. It will still be seriously lacking in midrange and midbass. Those drivers do not match well together at all and really don't make a good "set" which is why you are getting flak in your thread.

I read this as I bought two left shoes, but how can I tie them on my feet so I don't have to return them. Just isn't a logical solution. In that analogy consider an Fmod a different shoelace that is horribly expensive, which of course doesn't really fix the concern.

I haven't bought the tweets just yet.. I planned to as I said in original post. I did get the 8 4"s though. A speaker is a speaker is a speaker.. the 4"s do up to 10,000 without much hassle and the tweets start well under that. This is why i'm not understanding the issue. If as alton said, a simple external crossover would work, why hasn't this been suggested yet apart from him saying it? a brand to look at .. what type i'd need.. for my application etc.

Would it make it simplier if I just said, I need to make the eclipse amp work for my tweets and leave out every other part of my system? I think that'd be a more direct way to get what i'm asking but then im fairly certain people would just ask for more information about what im running regardless of my question of just wanting to know how to get the amp to work.. with my tweets only. The proto 75x4 will be running the 8 4s 2 per channel at 2 ohm, 50rms each as I seen it was suggested earlier for running the full setup, which doesn't incorporate my eclipse amp at all and I want to run it... simply because I want to.

To Alton, Loud is all im worried about right now and most of the time... loud to the local people IS good.. they don't understand an audible difference like that. I go through a LOT of gear per year. Over 750 refs this year alone on caraudio.com, 95% of my posts are in classifieds. My old setup consisted of sundown amps, 24 dc lvl 2 15s, 48 selenium ST350 supertweeters and 24 selenium 6" mids. I haven't had a just plain loud system to take to local carshows in a while, I missed people's "wow" factor around here when my system gets compared to the local uninformed's kickers or jls in a prefab'd box running 8 gauge wire to 4kw amps.

[///M5 2,833]

the 4"s do up to 10,000 without much hassle and the tweets start well under that.

Hope you aren't basing that on the little verbage on PE's site and if you do want to use them that way you are going to need some processing to make it happen.

I suppose you are going to tell us they can play at reference level (well below loud) down to 60Hz as well.

If you want to use a simple external crossover, I'd choose other drivers but without knowing mounting locations and such its hard to recommend anything.

[JustinW 0]

the 4"s do up to 10,000 without much hassle and the tweets start well under that.

Hope you aren't basing that on the little verbage on PE's site and if you do want to use them that way you are going to need some processing to make it happen.

I suppose you are going to tell us they can play at reference level (well below loud) down to 60Hz as well.

If you want to use a simple external crossover, I'd choose other drivers but without knowing mounting locations and such its hard to recommend anything.

try... i'm sure you can do it :/.. lol. and no.. i'm not telling you anything, what would I tell you that you don't already know apparently? now.. that aside.. mount locations for drivers should have little effect on just suggesting a crossover should it? I'm not being rude... i'm just wanting to do my system.. nothing more.

[///M5 2,833]

the 4"s do up to 10,000 without much hassle and the tweets start well under that.

Hope you aren't basing that on the little verbage on PE's site and if you do want to use them that way you are going to need some processing to make it happen.

I suppose you are going to tell us they can play at reference level (well below loud) down to 60Hz as well.

If you want to use a simple external crossover, I'd choose other drivers but without knowing mounting locations and such its hard to recommend anything.

try... i'm sure you can do it :/.. lol. and no.. i'm not telling you anything, what would I tell you that you don't already know apparently? now.. that aside.. mount locations for drivers should have little effect on just suggesting a crossover should it? I'm not being rude... i'm just wanting to do my system.. nothing more.

You didn't bold enough...

As for the crossovers, if you are going to use what you have you'll need eq too and it still won't be all that great. And yes mounting locations definitely influence crossover settings.

[JustinW 0]

Well. I'll get some pics of my amps setting as they arrive. The four channel proto came but I didn't have time yesterday for pics. I appreciate everyones help in my matter and such but keep in mind. As long as I'm happy with it should be all that matters correct? Well if I can get help making it work. I will be more than happy lol

Note to Alton also, thanks for the kind words. Pending how my sugar is. Sometimes I do come off with An^ attitude but it's not intentional by any means. It's acting before thinking and I do pretty well with it now compared to when I didn't take care of myself as well. I am happy to have many of the adult responses I've gotten and don't mean for anyone to think I'm not thankful if I seem that way. Joys of being diabetic and not sleeping much mixed together lol

Edited July 15, 2011 by Arsenal

[Impious 1,476]

If as alton said, a simple external crossover would work, why hasn't this been suggested yet apart from him saying it? a brand to look at .. what type i'd need.. for my application etc.

Because we don't know what the xover in the Sundown is like. We were trying to save you money by waiting to see how much of your current equipment will fit your needs.

[JustinW 0]

If as alton said, a simple external crossover would work, why hasn't this been suggested yet apart from him saying it? a brand to look at .. what type i'd need.. for my application etc.

Because we don't know what the xover in the Sundown is like. We were trying to save you money by waiting to see how much of your current equipment will fit your needs.

here we go, just got home so sorry for that. Appreciate the help and trying to save me money.

sundown proto 4 channel

eclipse 4 channel

also my proto neo 8" im considering using instead of the 15s.

im just proud of it as it's all custom tooled lol.

hope the pics help, all I have until I get the eclipse in my possession and the mono amp as well. Mail is slow.

Edited July 16, 2011 by Arsenal

[Randal Johnson 544]

[JustinW 0]

I bring nothing to this thread... but the popcorn was funny

pretty much the same thing. :/..

Edited July 16, 2011 by Arsenal

[Randal Johnson 544]

i'm just watching and learning ... nothing more ...