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Higher voltage/lower impedance?

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School me a bit here, if your running a higher input voltage say going from 12/14 to 16, is it easier on the amp to run a lower ohm load? or does it depend on the amp generally. kinda just trying learn a little more about how amps work. about to buy a new alt and batts here soon, thinking about doing a separate 16v system for my bass amp. (two alts, stock, and a 16/18v) and was wondering if i would be able to run the ohm load down a little more?

im a noob obviously so flame me if you must, just trying to get some info.

thanks for any input.

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because most amps nowadays are non-regulated, that means the amp will make more power with higher voltage...

And that's why...

The amp has some basic limits-

AC voltage output can only go so high before it clips...

AC current will output the same as AC voltage if outputting at a real 1 ohm load.

The amp will draw what it needs to current-wise to produce a certain amount of power...

But nothing changes here, if the actual load is below 1 ohm, current output will be at a dangerous level. Risk frying things from moving too much current inside the amp.

So.. from what i'm getting at is-

Running a higher DC voltage input at your amp will make it more efficient, but doesn't make it magically stronger over a 14v system.

Now, if we were comparing daily driving at 10v vs 16v.. then yea, that's different.

However, blabbing about all that.. a good electrical system can run many of today's amps at 0.5ohms.

Not saying you will be ok because i don't know how you will monitor your setup..

But sundowns, AQs, Crescendos, DCs, American Bass VFLs- they all are built strong enough to withstand that stress... BUT it depends on how you stress it!

Take me for example. I run at 0.5ohms but i do not crank it for more than a few seconds at that level.

I don't want the actual load to be pegging at or below 1ohm for any measurable length of time.

So.. if you want to wire below the stable load-

I only do it for competition and loud demoing.

For only daily driving, it's pointless.

Wiring low is for numbers.

Wiring normal is for enjoyment.

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Unless your competing seriously don't bother with 16v. Just my opinion, wont gain enough power difference for it to be audible, don't want to mess with stepdowns, or one alt for stock electrical and other for stereo amps...

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i gotcha. my thought process behind it was that a "good" electrical system is to make sure the amp have a steady input voltage, therefor able to run a lower ohm load.

for example say i have a 12/14v system dropping to 12v @ .5 ohm this would be harder on the amp then if i have a 16/18v system dropping to 15v @ .5 (all nominal)

but i wasnt sure if like the amp draw would be different going from 12v to 16v both @ .5 ohm.

thanks for your input, really appreciate it.

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Unless your competing seriously don't bother with 16v. Just my opinion, wont gain enough power difference for it to be audible, don't want to mess with stepdowns, or one alt for stock electrical and other for stereo amps...

thanks for you input too. i plan on running two alts EITHER way, im going to be replacing my AC pump (which hasnt been used in years) so i didnt think it would be too much of an issue just using the extra alt for my bass amps.

it just seems from reading clamp numbers some amps really come alive above 14 volts. im going to compete with it, or plan on doing so at least. but its still gonna be geared to ground pounding. got about 5k coming my way by oct and 3k is going to be for my new setup. just want to plan this all out correctly. gonna be running at least like 4500w, singer alt, 3100's, the works.

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My dc alt (for 12v battery, 14v charge) would sit in low 15v range at idle in 100degree weather :P

If you do two alts, use one for stock electrical, and other for 14v batteries and 16v charge for amps.

And make sure the amps your looking at can handle 16v, some have protection circuits for higher voltages.

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Actually, Higher voltage and lower impedance can cause more problems because it could cause the parts to go past its limit.

You hear about to low of voltage being bad, but same can apply for to high.

Take a set of power supply/output MOSFET, they are rated for a certain voltage and current, and watts. Increasing input voltage, and lower impedance, can cause these parts to hit their max and fail.

But I see what you was saying, people say don't run your amp below 1ohm unless you have a good electrical. But to a point, to much voltage could be a problem.

Even though most quality amps these days are over built as much as possible without going way overboard to drive cost for no real benefit.

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The main good reason to do a 16v system in a daily situation is because 16v batteries tend to be much much smaller which cuts down on weight. Higher voltage = less amps pulled.

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The main good reason to do a 16v system in a daily situation is because 16v batteries tend to be much much smaller which cuts down on weight. Higher voltage = less amps pulled.

What makes a 16 volt battery smaller than a 12volt?

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ill probably just end up sticking with 12v/14v and just get a solid electrical.

im thinking a sundown 4500/NS1 or a DC 5k. maybe a AQ3500 if i run low on money AFTER all the electrical i plan on doing. im going to do AT least a singer 330 alt on top of my stock, and 3 deka intimidators 2 in back 1 up front. and 50' of 2/0 throughout. but i want to do .7 ohm daily, but ill cross that bridge when i get there, if im not confident in my electrical ill just do 1.4 and call it good.

ive already sold my old system, am going away for 2 jobs till oct and will have plenty of money to pay some bill and do the system im planning, im estimating spending 3k just on bass and another 750 on my front stage.

i want a 150 by years end.

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The main good reason to do a 16v system in a daily situation is because 16v batteries tend to be much much smaller which cuts down on weight. Higher voltage = less amps pulled.

What makes a 16 volt battery smaller than a 12volt?

to produce the same amount of power with a 16v/14v you pull less amps. When you're pulling less amps you don't need as large of batteries to support the same current load.

Volts X amps = watts

Say you have 1000w to produce that you would need 71.4285714 amps on a 14v system, on a 16v system you would only need 62.5 amps which is a considerable difference.

and no that's not accounting for efficiency.

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The main good reason to do a 16v system in a daily situation is because 16v batteries tend to be much much smaller which cuts down on weight. Higher voltage = less amps pulled.

What makes a 16 volt battery smaller than a 12volt?

to produce the same amount of power with a 16v/14v you pull less amps. When you're pulling less amps you don't need as large of batteries to support the same current load.

Volts X amps = watts

Say you have 1000w to produce that you would need 71.4285714 amps on a 14v system, on a 16v system you would only need 62.5 amps which is a considerable difference.

and no that's not accounting for efficiency.

word.

i remember this from my grow rooms, i could use double the lights on the same panel, just by going from 120 to 240 because they pull roughly half the amperage.

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The main good reason to do a 16v system in a daily situation is because 16v batteries tend to be much much smaller which cuts down on weight. Higher voltage = less amps pulled.

What makes a 16 volt battery smaller than a 12volt?

to produce the same amount of power with a 16v/14v you pull less amps. When you're pulling less amps you don't need as large of batteries to support the same current load.

Volts X amps = watts

Say you have 1000w to produce that you would need 71.4285714 amps on a 14v system, on a 16v system you would only need 62.5 amps which is a considerable difference.

and no that's not accounting for efficiency.

The way you wrote it sounded like 16 volt batteries was smaller but was stronger. Which isn't the case, cause if you compare specs, the 12 volt has better specs. That's not comparing the difference between them, just spec for spec.

Now, usually when people run 16 volts, they aren't looking for a more efficient way to make the same power. Its usually to increase there power. But like you said, your going on 100%, which never happens, and how do you know a amp doesn't lose efficiency above 14volts? Most company's don't have a rating for efficiency other than 12 volt and 4ohms.

You got to take into account a few more details before making such a bold statement IMO.

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What you're missing here with higher voltage you need less current to produce the same amount of wattage, so you're batteries don't need to have a huge battery capable of storing a huge amount of amps.

Yes 12v batteries are stronger than 16v batteries, that's because you need MORE current to produce the same amount of power than a 16v system

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I know what your saying, but in a unregulated amp, if you raise the input voltage, your usually going to increase the power.

And also, your going on 100% efficiency to compare both, but in real world, their not going to be the same. It could favor either one really.

I mean, come on, you think I don't have any idea about I=V*A? If you would of read my post, instead of assuming I didn't know what you was talking about, maybe you would of gotten my point. Most people who have good common sense, knows if you raises the voltage it doesn't take as much current to produce the same power. That's just simple math.

But like I was pointing out, Take XS Power D3400, and D1600, exact same size, but ones 12 and other is 16.

XS Power gives there batteries a max wattage ratings, I'm not sure how they come up with this, but doesn't matter if its measured the same, which I'd assume they would.

D3400 is rated for 3300 "watts"

D1600 is rated for 2400 "watts"

Now, your saying that the 16volt will produce more power vs the size, but according to that rating they don't. Now take into account "watts", and not just how much current the battery can handle.

Your just thinking the size of the battery is based just on current, but you have to consider the extra size it needs to make higher voltage. And going by XS specs, the 12volt will make more power than the 16 for same size. And I'm assuming its because the 16volt battery has more but smaller cells, that are less efficient(physical size). So basically the 12volt can handle enough current to make the same power as 16, it actually makes more overall power.

16 volt needs 150 amps to make 2400watts.

While 12 volt needs 200, but the 12volt can handle 3300, which is 700 more watts, which is 58 amps, so actually the 12volt can handle 258 amps, while the 16 can only handle 150.

So overall, I say a 12volt battery is quiet stronger, even though it takes more current to make same power.

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i have done the research on this for quite a while in the past..

12v batts are cheaper and stronger than 16v. It's really that simple.

IF XS could sell the XP1000 for $169 per batt.. well, hehe, then we'd be onto something.

Look at it from this point-

D3400 vs D1600 again.

IF you really think the D1600 is stronger, look as to why? You think because it rests at 17.3v that it's god?

Because it's ampacity is smaller, it will drop voltage a LOT lower than the D3400 will.

How low?

I don't know exactly, BUT, you also got to remember this- The D1600 would drop lower %-wise but still output less current at the same time.

What if we had 10 D3400s and 1 D1600 :)

The D1600 is still exhibiting higher voltage.. but way less current.

This is how i compare batts of different voltages...

I take the rest voltage(2.16v x cell quantity) and multiply by the MA.

So, here is the following on that-

D3400= 43230 (13.1x3300)

D1600= 41520 )17.3x2400)

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in a basic world

ohms law says

e/r=i

so 12v/100ohms = .12amps

14v/100ohms = .14amps

and so on so at higher voltage you can produce more amps at the same impedance.

so then you say ok what about power or watts

p=1^2 *r or e*i

.12a^2 *100=1.44watts

.14a^2 *100=1.68watts

or

.12 * 12= 1.44watts

.14*12= 1.68watts

so we also see that if we reduce the impedance it gives us a higher amperage and when you go back in to use it in the power formula it works out accordingly.

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