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DIY interconnects

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I currently use DIY interconnects in the form of a twisted pair with drain wire terminated with soldered RCA ends. This has worked very well for my current setup and has been fairly cheap. Although, the twisted pair is more likely used for a balanced signal then an unbalanced signal (all my runs are unbalanced).

I have been researching various interconnect methods and their craziness. I have noted form numerous sources that coaxial interconnects are better suited for unbalanced signals. From what I gathered, using coaxial cable in the vehicle environment can be expensive and difficult. The difficulties arise with inflexible cabling and long RCA ends. I can image the troubles I will have trying to route coaxial cable behind my head unit. The expensive will come come from the tools needed to properly connect the RCA ends to the cable. For instance, Canare RCA ends are ~$9, the tool and die set will run me about $190! I can use solder RCA ends which I believe will drastically reduce cost. But I am not sure if soldered ends on coaxial cable will diminish the purpose of coax cable to begin with?

I am thinking about using Canare L-3CFW Series cable. It is a 22awg solid copper conductor cable with dual braided copper shields. I realize that skin-effect should minimal regardless if I use stranded or solid. I am looking at all specifications and trying to pick the best cable. Based on the specs the inductance is relatively low and so is the capacitance.

For cable termination I am considering Dayton RCAX-AU Audiophile Locking RCA Connector. I use silver solder.

Does anybody have any thoughts on using coaxial interconnects for car audio? Thoughts on Canare L-3CFW Series cable? Thoughts on Dayton RCAX-AU Audiophile Locking RCA Connector?

I will not spend ridiculous amounts of money on cabling. If you have built your own coaxial cable interconnects I would love to hear the materials you used.

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Any particular reason you want to DIY your own? I don't really see the point myself.....one set of those connectors cost more than all of the RCA's in my car combined. Decent quality RCA's are cheap enough that I don't see the advantage in DIY'd cables.

I'd be worried about the flexibility of a coaxial cable with a solid core conductor.

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Any particular reason you want to DIY your own? I don't really see the point myself.....one set of those connectors cost more than all of the RCA's in my car combined. Decent quality RCA's are cheap enough that I don't see the advantage in DIY'd cables.

I'd be worried about the flexibility of a coaxial cable with a solid core conductor.

No real reason to.. unless your looking for a specific look.

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Any particular reason you want to DIY your own? I don't really see the point myself.....one set of those connectors cost more than all of the RCA's in my car combined. Decent quality RCA's are cheap enough that I don't see the advantage in DIY'd cables.

I'd be worried about the flexibility of a coaxial cable with a solid core conductor.

If I can build it I will. That is how I am with everything, car audio related or not. I enjoy tinkering with anything. When I was a young boy my father used to bring home old repeater equipment from his job so I could tear it apart. No need to buy my toys, just give me a screwdriver and a piece of electronic equipment. Yep I was that kid that took an electrical socket apart when I was 3 ;)

The Dayton RCAX-AU Audiophile Locking RCA Connector are $21.78 for two pair. That costs more than all the RCA's in your car? BTW my current DIY RCA's cost me $13.55 for 10' for all the materials.

I am discovering various methods and components that I can use to achieve the best sound in my vehicle that I can afford. I am looking at every aspect. RCA cables is one of them. For those people that are happy with out of the box RCA's then obviously DIY cables aren't for them.

I have read many topics about unbalanced RCA cables. Some say that if the cables is functioning properly you will not be able to hear the difference from a low cost cable to a more expensive one. Other, mostly home audiophiles, claim that various RCA cables do sound different.

My own debate is weather or not a two conductor cable is any different sounding then a coaxial cable when used for a unbalanced RCA signal. I know the application and design differences between the two. Unfortunately I do not have the test equipment to make a factual comparison. I suppose the biggest difference will be in the shielding. The two conductor is not shielded (that have) and the coaxial is. I currently use unshielded two conductor wire with a drain wire. This particular wire is designed for a balanced signal. The noise floor in my car is extremely low. In fact I can not hear any noise in my system. Will coaxial cable make a difference in the sound :ughdunno:

I plan on doing a test using my home audio with these two cables. It will be much easier to swap cables at home then in the car.

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The Dayton RCAX-AU Audiophile Locking RCA Connector are $21.78 for two pair. That costs more than all the RCA's in your car?

Yes.

I take that back. I think I may have paid $8/each for my current RCA's, which for three would be $24, so just a hair more than those connectors. But my RCA's before these were $5 each I believe.

I am discovering various methods and components that I can use to achieve the best sound in my vehicle that I can afford. I am looking at every aspect. RCA cables is one of them.

RCA cables are not going to make an audible difference unless they are damaged.

For those people that are happy with out of the box RCA's then obviously DIY cables aren't for them.

For the cost and quality, what is there to be unhappy about?

Did you build your own amplifier? Your own speakers? Your own subwoofer? Your own headunit?

Then what is different about RCA's? They are one of the least expensive and least important "components" in an audio system. Much greater attention and resources (both time and money) can be and should be directed elsewhere in the system.

Some say that if the cables is functioning properly you will not be able to hear the difference from a low cost cable to a more expensive one.

Those people would be correct.

Other, mostly home audiophiles, claim that various RCA cables do sound different.

Those people would be incorrect.

My own debate is weather or not a two conductor cable is any different sounding then a coaxial cable when used for a unbalanced RCA signal.

"Sound" different? No.

I suppose the biggest difference will be in the shielding. The two conductor is not shielded and the coaxial is.

You can purchase shielded 2-conductor cable.

The noise floor in my car is extremely low. In fact I can not hear any noise in my system. Will coaxial cable make a difference in the sound

You answered your own question.

The difference between the coaxial and your current cable is shielding.

You have an extremely low noise floor and presently have no noise without shielding.

So, will shielding make a difference in sound? Not if you don't presently have any noise issues. With the exception that it could actually cause more noise if it's improperly shielded.

And if you have some time to kill, search the old carsound forums for the arguments between Richard Clark and others about the relative differences between UTP and shielded. RC (and others) arguing for UTP.

I plan on doing a test using my home audio with these two cables. It will be much easier to swap cables at home then in the car.

Honestly I wouldn't bother. It's cables, not magic. Unless one of them is damaged the only difference you hear will be based on psychoacoustics. Any reasonably decent cable will have low enough RLC properties as to not audibly affect the sound.

And that's not to say I'm against people testing or experimenting with equipment. Objective tests are great...meaningful and helpful. Subjective tests are iffy, especially a comparison that's not properly conducted. Psychoacoustics can run rampant and often times those types of tests can do more damage than good as people think they "learned" something that didn't actually happen because the test wasn't properly conducted.

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I use microphone twisted pair cabling for all my car audio signal cables. It is the best to use and here is why:

The Dayton cable I buy uses decent copper of sufficent gauge with a tight twist.

I use the outer conductor as an electrostatic shield. What this means is that the outer shield is only connected at the source end and brings all RFI/EMI back to that point. If your source end is grounded correctly, this eliminates virtually all noise induced on the cable. If the shield is connected at both ends, it doesn't work this way.

You can't do this with coax or simple twisted pair. Some very high end cables will have a directional marking, this is why. Not because the signal will flow better one way.

This is by far the highest performance you can get with single-ended low level signal cables in an automotive environment...

Also, the quality of the components does not effect performance as much as method of cable construction and use.

I use Parts Express ends, for what it's worth....

I would use anything else that is cheaper if it were as good...

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I use microphone twisted pair cabling for all my car audio signal cables. It is the best to use and here is why:

The Dayton cable I buy uses decent copper of sufficent gauge with a tight twist.

I use the outer conductor as an electrostatic shield. What this means is that the outer shield is only connected at the source end and brings all RFI/EMI back to that point. If your source end is grounded correctly, this eliminates virtually all noise induced on the cable. If the shield is connected at both ends, it doesn't work this way.

You can't do this with coax or simple twisted pair. Some very high end cables will have a directional marking, this is why. Not because the signal will flow better one way.

This is by far the highest performance you can get with single-ended low level signal cables in an automotive environment...

Also, the quality of the components does not effect performance as much as method of cable construction and use.

I use Parts Express ends, for what it's worth....

I would use anything else that is cheaper if it were as good...

You are using the same type of materials that I have been using.

What is the model number for the cable you use?

I have been using Gepco 61801EZ. It does have a drain wire and I only solder that to the RCA plug at the source end.

I am using P3 RCA connectors that have worked well.

Thanks for your reply.

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Does it have a shield with a drain wire? Is the shield foil or stranded?

I just use the Dayton brand from Parts Express. I used Mogami exclusively back in the day when I could get it cheap through work. It was also excellent cable. Really, any good quality microphone cable that is at least 24 awg with a full stranded shield is the best way to go.

I worked for Audioprism for 5 years before I joined the Air Force. We built $25K tube amps. The head engineer, Victor Tiscareno, was a brilliant RF engineer. In fact, the Audioprism indoor FM antennas were some of the best ever made, they are snatched up instantly when on the used market. Anyway, Victor knows more about RFI/EMI than anyone I have met. He designed some of the best power filers ever made.

He also taught me about shielding.

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Does it have a shield with a drain wire? Is the shield foil or stranded?

I just use the Dayton brand from Parts Express. I used Mogami exclusively back in the day when I could get it cheap through work. It was also excellent cable. Really, any good quality microphone cable that is at least 24 awg with a full stranded shield is the best way to go.

I worked for Audioprism for 5 years before I joined the Air Force. We built $25K tube amps. The head engineer, Victor Tiscareno, was a brilliant RF engineer. In fact, the Audioprism indoor FM antennas were some of the best ever made, they are snatched up instantly when on the used market. Anyway, Victor knows more about RFI/EMI than anyone I have met. He designed some of the best power filers ever made.

He also taught me about shielding.

O/T what do/did you do for the AF?

I'm a crew chief on kc-135's

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Does it have a shield with a drain wire? Is the shield foil or stranded?

I just use the Dayton brand from Parts Express. I used Mogami exclusively back in the day when I could get it cheap through work. It was also excellent cable. Really, any good quality microphone cable that is at least 24 awg with a full stranded shield is the best way to go.

I worked for Audioprism for 5 years before I joined the Air Force. We built $25K tube amps. The head engineer, Victor Tiscareno, was a brilliant RF engineer. In fact, the Audioprism indoor FM antennas were some of the best ever made, they are snatched up instantly when on the used market. Anyway, Victor knows more about RFI/EMI than anyone I have met. He designed some of the best power filers ever made.

He also taught me about shielding.

It does not have a shield it only has a stranded drain wire. The wires are not copper. I just noticed that the product description says it has a foil shield but it doesnt.

Here is a pic of the wire that I had taken during assemble of the RCA interconnects.

Edit-0050-1.jpg

Dayton Audio makes a great product. I actually have a couple $$$ of their divers in my closet. I will definitely check out their wire. Do you use the Dayton Audio MLI 22/2 Mic/Line Cable? Do you cut off the foil shield or solder it with the ground/drain at the source end?

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There is no shield on that cable, so hooking that wire up on one end won't do anything. Actually, it isn't a drain wire either, it is just a 3rd conductor that isn't insluated. It is for ground in a balanced system. Drain wire is only used inside a shield, usually foil type...

I have been a Ground Radio tech for the last 14 years, well RF trans systems now....

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The Dayton RCAX-AU Audiophile Locking RCA Connector are $21.78 for two pair. That costs more than all the RCA's in your car?

Yes.

I take that back. I think I may have paid $8/each for my current RCA's, which for three would be $24, so just a hair more than those connectors. But my RCA's before these were $5 each I believe.

I am discovering various methods and components that I can use to achieve the best sound in my vehicle that I can afford. I am looking at every aspect. RCA cables is one of them.

RCA cables are not going to make an audible difference unless they are damaged.

For those people that are happy with out of the box RCA's then obviously DIY cables aren't for them.

For the cost and quality, what is there to be unhappy about?

Did you build your own amplifier? Your own speakers? Your own subwoofer? Your own headunit?

Then what is different about RCA's? They are one of the least expensive and least important "components" in an audio system. Much greater attention and resources (both time and money) can be and should be directed elsewhere in the system.

Some say that if the cables is functioning properly you will not be able to hear the difference from a low cost cable to a more expensive one.

Those people would be correct.

Other, mostly home audiophiles, claim that various RCA cables do sound different.

Those people would be incorrect.

My own debate is weather or not a two conductor cable is any different sounding then a coaxial cable when used for a unbalanced RCA signal.

"Sound" different? No.

I suppose the biggest difference will be in the shielding. The two conductor is not shielded and the coaxial is.

You can purchase shielded 2-conductor cable.

The noise floor in my car is extremely low. In fact I can not hear any noise in my system. Will coaxial cable make a difference in the sound

You answered your own question.

The difference between the coaxial and your current cable is shielding.

You have an extremely low noise floor and presently have no noise without shielding.

So, will shielding make a difference in sound? Not if you don't presently have any noise issues. With the exception that it could actually cause more noise if it's improperly shielded.

And if you have some time to kill, search the old carsound forums for the arguments between Richard Clark and others about the relative differences between UTP and shielded. RC (and others) arguing for UTP.

I plan on doing a test using my home audio with these two cables. It will be much easier to swap cables at home then in the car.

Honestly I wouldn't bother. It's cables, not magic. Unless one of them is damaged the only difference you hear will be based on psychoacoustics. Any reasonably decent cable will have low enough RLC properties as to not audibly affect the sound.

And that's not to say I'm against people testing or experimenting with equipment. Objective tests are great...meaningful and helpful. Subjective tests are iffy, especially a comparison that's not properly conducted. Psychoacoustics can run rampant and often times those types of tests can do more damage than good as people think they "learned" something that didn't actually happen because the test wasn't properly conducted.

http://consumerist.com/2008/03/do-coat-hangers-sound-as-good-monster-cables.html

Saw a similar setup with a quite pricey RCA upwards of a thousand dollars.

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I use the mic cable with a woven copper shield, can't remember the part number.

On the source end you connect the shield to your ground (the shield and - wire are soldered together to the RCA body), on the other end you cut the shield back and don't connect it...

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There is no shield on that cable, so hooking that wire up on one end won't do anything. Actually, it isn't a drain wire either, it is just a 3rd conductor that isn't insluated. It is for ground in a balanced system. Drain wire is only used inside a shield, usually foil type...

I have been a Ground Radio tech for the last 14 years, well RF trans systems now....

Ah Ha! Now I am, starting to get good information! Thanks again for sharing your knowledge on this subject.

I use the mic cable with a woven copper shield, can't remember the part number.

On the source end you connect the shield to your ground (the shield and - wire are soldered together to the RCA body), on the other end you cut the shield back and don't connect it...

Ok. So the mic cable does not have a drain wire? It is only a twisted two conductor with shield, correct?

Does it look like this?

110FII0ikAL._SL500_AA300_.jpg

Thank you for your help, I really appreciate it.

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That is the exact stuff I use.

The fabric filler is a little of a pain to cut back, and the insulation is very low temp stuff so be carefull or you will melt it very easy.

As far as quality wise though, these are better than any car audio cable at any price, period.

These days I evaluate multi-billion dollar systems for the military. I work directly with engineers during development. These guys are magnitudes higher in education and experience than many in the car audio arena. These products they design have to work, 100% of the time. I pay close attention and pick as many brains as possible when it comes to these types of things (shielding, wiring, power supplies, etc). I base my design and construction on what I see that works....

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That is the exact stuff I use.

The fabric filler is a little of a pain to cut back, and the insulation is very low temp stuff so be carefull or you will melt it very easy.

As far as quality wise though, these are better than any car audio cable at any price, period.

These days I evaluate multi-billion dollar systems for the military. I work directly with engineers during development. These guys are magnitudes higher in education and experience than many in the car audio arena. These products they design have to work, 100% of the time. I pay close attention and pick as many brains as possible when it comes to these types of things (shielding, wiring, power supplies, etc). I base my design and construction on what I see that works....

Thanks 95Honda. You cleared alot of misunderstanding.

I will be buying some of that wire this week.

Sounds like you have a great job. I am a CNC machinist, same shit everyday for the most part. You can even apply your job experiences to car audio :)

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IMO, stay away from those locking RCA plugs. I have worked on somebody's car and he used something similar. They are beyond stupid. Really large, really cumbersome to lock-unlock and when trying to remove them they would almost always break one of the RCA plugs on the amp.

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^^ Yep. Belive it or not, I use the $1.50 ones, can't remember the part number, but that are the simple 2-piece solder only ones.

The only time I use locking ones is when I am going to connect to female leads hanging off the back of the deck under the dash...

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