"Breaking In" of Subs.

[Quentin Jarrell 671]

They don't break in f1 engines. Tolerances are so tight they are seized at room temperature. They have to be heated to crank them up.

[pmureika 31]

Breaking in a sub = myth. If you play it, it will loosen up over time.

Breaking in an engine of a car = not myth.

There is a reason why you break in a cam and use break in oil. An engine is FAR more complex then a speaker will ever be.

They dodnt use breakin oil anymore. Drive it like a rental.

[Julian 641]

Breaking in a sub = myth. If you play it, it will loosen up over time.

Breaking in an engine of a car = not myth.

There is a reason why you break in a cam and use break in oil. An engine is FAR more complex then a speaker will ever be.

They dodnt use breakin oil anymore. Drive it like a rental.

I wouldn't quite say that, a lot of the time they use it on custom engines or heavily modified.

[Dangrebel 89]

They use break in oil for flat tappet cams, now what every vehicle has these days are hydrolic roller cams. That certain set up is longer lasting and ilthe lifter has a wheel that rolls along with the cam, unlike a flat tappet set up that is metal to metal and is sliding along the cam. That is where you need the special Break in oil.

[pmureika 31]

They use break in oil for flat tappet cams, now what every vehicle has these days are hydrolic roller cams. That certain set up is longer lasting and ilthe lifter has a wheel that rolls along with the cam, unlike a flat tappet set up that is metal to metal and is sliding along the cam. That is where you need the special Break in oil.

Also when breaking in a flat tappet cam keep the rpm's up around 2 to 3 thousand rpm for at least a half an hour or more no idling. there is no breakin for the newer cams and engines. as far as subs go most new ones breakin very quick.

[ssh 924]

They use break in oil for flat tappet cams, now what every vehicle has these days are hydrolic roller cams. That certain set up is longer lasting and ilthe lifter has a wheel that rolls along with the cam, unlike a flat tappet set up that is metal to metal and is sliding along the cam. That is where you need the special Break in oil.

Also when breaking in a flat tappet cam keep the rpm's up around 2 to 3 thousand rpm for at least a half an hour or more no idling.

Don't you just want to vary the rpm range, so nothing is constant?

[pmureika 31]

They use break in oil for flat tappet cams, now what every vehicle has these days are hydrolic roller cams. That certain set up is longer lasting and ilthe lifter has a wheel that rolls along with the cam, unlike a flat tappet set up that is metal to metal and is sliding along the cam. That is where you need the special Break in oil.

Also when breaking in a flat tappet cam keep the rpm's up around 2 to 3 thousand rpm for at least a half an hour or more no idling.

Don't you just want to vary the rpm range, so nothing is constant?

They dont recommend any breaking in.I found it best to give it a dozen or so full throttle acccelerations.

[Jmac 24]

Breaking in the sub is a complete waste of time for any daily driver.

[Quentin Jarrell 671]

Breaking in a normal sub can change t/s parameters up to 10 percent.

Anybody that has any experience wit IA DP's can tell a noticeable difference of both stiffness and cone movement on power after they have been played with recommended power over a period of time, Aka breaking them in.

[bassahaulic 155]

When I first installed my ZCON's low notes sounded a little funny. Now, after a few weeks of power. They play super low and sound great.

[Julian 641]

There's no use IMO because they will break In as you play them. I know DD and AQ are always saying not to apply full power until they are fully broken in.. Which I think is baloney.

[Quentin Jarrell 671]

They will break in hower if take a new sub with a 1500 watt rms rating and a 30 min xmax. That sub is designed to cool the coil with cone movement.

If you are putting 1500 watts to that new sub and it is only moving 15mm how effectively is the sub cooling the coil.

This isn't the case for every driver and who really plays their system full tilt ALL the time? So there shouldn't be a problem. But I believe in Murphy's Law.

[Julian 641]

I typically do play it at full tilt for 80-90% of the time.. But thats just me.

[Impious 1,476]

They will break in hower if take a new sub with a 1500 watt rms rating and a 30 min xmax. That sub is designed to cool the coil with cone movement.

If you are putting 1500 watts to that new sub and it is only moving 15mm how effectively is the sub cooling the coil.

This isn't the case for every driver and who really plays their system full tilt ALL the time? So there shouldn't be a problem. But I believe in Murphy's Law.

So I presume you also do not advocate ported enclosures since excursion is minimized at tuning where impedance is also at it's minimum, thereby increasing the risk of thermal failure?

Also, a 10% change in T/S parameters is well within the manufacturing tolerances. Pull any two drivers off an assembly line and the parameters can vary by as much as (or more than) 10%.

[Quentin Jarrell 671]

So I presume you understand music is dynamic and doesn't play at Fs long enough to be a concern.

Yes 10 percent is acceptable by ALMA. However most manufactures will have body FO and spider deflection tests performed on parts before and after break in periods to adjust their products for their expected T/S changes.

By my math 10% tolerance different plus an additional 10% change is a 19% difference from the original T/S parameters.

And the fact Klippel recommends a break in period before testing pretty much says a good break in period is an important play on parameters.

[pro-rabbit 64]

There is lot of interesting ideas tossed around in here. Most are clouded with myths or are covered with..well this company says this or that.

The mentioned T/S specs changing is true, but T/S parameters in them self are a whole different conversation all together.

I have tested product for just about every manufacturer out there. I have done things from R&D to actual testing of the finished products.

Amazingly I have found that yes a driver that is "broke in", if you will, will have adjust T/S specs across the board. However, the idea that you need to "break in" the driver prior to full out use is simply a myth and there is nothing more to it then that.

Even a supper stiff sub will reach full xmax prior to break in, if it does not it would not be produced. However, after break in it will be much easier for the soft parts to travel.

However, this is a double edged sword. If you build the driver with "break in" in mind, you run the risk of having soft parts that will break down to much over time. If you build it to stiff you just built an SPL woofer.

With that said 90% of all manufactures specs are "pre-break in" specs. Even more so 90% of those specs are flawed or not accurate to begin with.

[Quentin Jarrell 671]

I have had almost every high xmax klippeled to find out the competition's true parameters. Every driver that had multiple progressive spiders had roughly 19mm of one way movement within their recommended power limits.

Xmax (BL rated) which is what everyone uses isn't even physically measured anyhow it is figured via formulas calculated into Klippel's system.

I won't provide info on other manufacturer's drivers that I have paid to have tested, but there are several well know drivers that can be seen at car audio mag's turitorials.

I don't pretend to know everything about transducers, but I have surrounded myself with the top engineers in the industry in hopes that some of their experience will rub off so that when my drivers are debued I won't have a skared reputation.

[ssh 924]

I have had almost every high xmax klippeled to find out the competition's true parameters. Every driver that had multiple progressive spiders had roughly 19mm of one way movement within their recommended power limits.

Xmax (BL rated) which is what everyone uses isn't even physically measured anyhow it is figured via formulas calculated into Klippel's system.

I won't provide info on other manufacturer's drivers that I have paid to have tested, but there are several well know drivers that can be seen at car audio mag's turitorials.

I don't pretend to know everything about transducers, but I have surrounded myself with the top engineers in the industry in hopes that some of their experience will rub off so that when my drivers are debued I won't have a skared reputation.

Good plan, and I like your word choice at the end.

[Quentin Jarrell 671]

That wasn't intended as a pun bc I don't slander other people. I just refuse to have cookie cutter products. So I spend the time and money educating myself with people that have real work experience that have helped bring thousands of products to market.

[gibsonm21 1]

So it seems the general consensus is break in does occur, the user just doesn't have to take any abnormal action during that time which I totally agree with.

To the OP, DC lvl 6? You don't even have enough juice to break that sub in haha. I'm envious! Lol

[ssh 924]

That wasn't intended as a pun bc I don't slander other people. I just refuse to have cookie cutter products. So I spend the time and money educating myself with people that have real work experience that have helped bring thousands of products to market.

Well it's still nice to see people getting educated in what ever field they decide to get into.

So it seems the general consensus is break in does occur, the user just doesn't have to take any abnormal action during that time which I totally agree with.To the OP, DC lvl 6? You don't even have enough juice to break that sub in haha. I'm envious! Lol

DC lvl 8 so much better!

[Impious 1,476]

So I presume you understand music is dynamic and doesn't play at Fs long enough to be a concern.

By the same token since music is transient and dynamic and average power with music is significantly lower, breaking in a driver shouldn't be a concern either, correct? You can't play both sides. If break in is recommended because of the innate fear of insufficient coil cooling due to restricted excursion, the same would necessarily apply to ported enclosures as conditions are exactly the same. As you said, Murphy's Law. Better safe than sorry, correct?

Yes 10 percent is acceptable by ALMA. However most manufactures will have body FO and spider deflection tests performed on parts before and after break in periods to adjust their products for their expected T/S changes.

By my math 10% tolerance different plus an additional 10% change is a 19% difference from the original T/S parameters.

And since CMS is the only fundamental parameter to change due to break in, the relevant parameters change proportionally to each other and the net affect on overall system response is negligible and well below the audible threshold.

And the fact Klippel recommends a break in period before testing pretty much says a good break in period is an important play on parameters.

And almost everyone I know of who routinely tests drivers breaks them in prior to testing, although most of them do so (including Vance Dickason according to his statements in the LSDC) simply to verify that the driver is fully and correctly functioning and not so much for the parameter change. Regardless, I don't think anyone is arguing that parameter change due to break in doesn't occur. It certainly does. The question is whether or not a specific "break in" period needs to be performed on a driver prior to use. The answer is absolutely not. And in all but the most extreme cases the net change in system response is unaffected by the shift in parameters due to break in since the ratio of the parameters stays relatively constant pre- and post-break in.

About the only situation I can think of where break in would be a necessity is SPL competitors who need a specific change in T/S parameters, as the difference could potentially be measurable on a microphone and a few tenths can be the difference between 1st place and 2nd.

[Impious 1,476]

So it seems the general consensus is break in does occur, the user just doesn't have to take any abnormal action during that time which I totally agree with.

Pretty well sums it up.

[pro-rabbit 64]

That wasn't intended as a pun bc I don't slander other people. I just refuse to have cookie cutter products. So I spend the time and money educating myself with people that have real work experience that have helped bring thousands of products to market.

I agree and did the same thing for years. It would be nice to see more "honest" products on the market. However, even the most honest are still a stretch of truth do to the horrible setup for T/S parameters we currently use(which is our fault and no one elses).

One thing I hate about doing R&D or even general testing is that when I write up my review(which I am paid to do), I would think it would be used to adjust the product if that is needed. In most cases it just read and tossed away. The sub-woofer is by far the worse thing I test and never see results from my feed back to the companies. Very sad indeed.

[tc300 2]

So why does AudioQue recommend a break in period...??! Let me guess.....cause there Chinese parts.?!

LOL

Im sure there are other companies that recommend that also