Midbass tuning/ tweeter?

[gibsonm21 1]

I am going to be moving from my current 2 way passive system(JL ZR650s) to a 3 way active system. I originally planned to go full Beyma mids and highs, but ever since my ZR woofers broke in, I have fallen in love with their sound and I have decided to keep them as my mid range and add the ZR800s as my mid bass drivers; I also will be using the Beyma AST09 3 inch super tweeter.

I have a 08 Tahoe. My current setup has the woofer in the stock location and the tweeter in the stock A pillar location. I plan to build an enclosure in my center console for my 8's(one firing to both the driver and passenger side/not in between the seats) and glass my doors to fit the tweeter, but I had a couple of questions regarding my midbass enclosure and my tweeters.

1. I am planning to build the enclosure to specs, but JL recomends A little over a cube tuned to 32hz per driver. That tuning seems a little low for a midbass driver to me. Should I stick to those specs?

2. Since I will still have my JL tweeters in the A pillars, my plan was to run those in order to raise my stage. Will I run into problems with that considering they're different tweeters or is it something I can overcome with eq?

As far as my mids, I often listen to my music with my subs off, so I wouldn't mind a mid that can play low comfortably.

Planned Setup/approximate crossover points:

- Pioneer Z120bt

- JL ZR800s(50-500hz/12db)

- JL ZR650(450-4.5khz/12db)

- Beyma AST09(4khz/24)

- JL ZR100CT(~5.5 or 6khz/24)

- Infinity Kappa 6.5 coaxial(rear fill)

- BITONE

- ZED Leviathan

- Powerbass XAX 4160

[Tirefryr 1,742]

I would not suggest this arrangement as midbass can be localized. Others have used it successfully for their own ears, and that's all that matters, but IMO, you're better off with them in the doors or kicks.

[edouble101 314]

If you want a realistic soundstage and decent imagining then this is what I would do....

I am going to be moving from my current 2 way passive system(JL ZR650s) to a 3 way active system. I originally planned to go full Beyma mids and highs, but ever since my ZR woofers broke in, I have fallen in love with their sound and I have decided to keep them as my mid range and add the ZR800s as my mid bass drivers; I also will be using the Beyma AST09 3 inch super tweeter.

Why are you using a Beyma super tweeter?

I have a 08 Tahoe. My current setup has the woofer in the stock location and the tweeter in the stock A pillar location. I plan to build an enclosure in my center console for my 8's(one firing to both the driver and passenger side/not in between the seats) and glass my doors to fit the tweeter, but I had a couple of questions regarding my midbass enclosure and my tweeters.

1. I am planning to build the enclosure to specs, but JL recomends A little over a cube tuned to 32hz per driver. That tuning seems a little low for a midbass driver to me. Should I stick to those specs?

Is this enclosure spec for the 8"? If you want to use them as midbass mount them in your doors. I would not tune a midbass driver to 32hz. The lowest I would go is 50hz. If you want to use those 8" as sub and midbass duties then a 32hz tuning should work. Again mount them in your doors if you are using them for midbass. You maybe able to just run them on an open baffle (door) like you are and be great!

2. Since I will still have my JL tweeters in the A pillars, my plan was to run those in order to raise my stage. Will I run into problems with that considering they're different tweeters or is it something I can overcome with eq?

Get rid of the super tweeter. Keep your JL tweeter in the a-pillar and mount the midrange in the kicks and mid bass in the doors. Our ears are sensitive to stage height based on higher frequencies. This is why it is a good idea to mount tweeters up high (this is where you get stage height). Midrange frequencies are not so vertically limited. This is why kick mounting midrange to equalize path length differences works well with forming a good soundstage and imaging. Midbass frequencies are not so localized by placement (ie. height, equalizing pld's). You can optimize you midbass crossover point to help with stage width.

As far as my mids, I often listen to my music with my subs off, so I wouldn't mind a mid that can play low comfortably.

Crossover points on paper are a guildline.

Planned Setup/approximate crossover points:

- Pioneer Z120bt

- JL ZR800s(50-200hz/12db) possibly xover higher to help with stage width, gotta tune and see

- JL ZR650(200-4.5khz/12db)

- Beyma AST09(4khz/24)

- JL ZR100CT(~4.5 on up )

- Infinity Kappa 6.5 coaxial(rear fill only for midbass reinforcement if necessary and a tad of ambiance)

- BITONE

- ZED Leviathan

- Powerbass XAX 4160

[gibsonm21 1]

Kicks are not an option as I value leg room more and I have yet to hear a kick panel setup that was worth losing the leg room. As far as the door, it is a viable option, but the recommended enclosure size is so large, it would be a pain to pull it off. "Center Console" makes it sound like the mids will be closer to me than the mid ranges or tweeters. The speakers will be on the same distance and level as the mid range, just firing from the center in.

[edouble101 314]

Kicks are not an option as I value leg room more and I have yet to hear a kick panel setup that was worth losing the leg room. As far as the door, it is a viable option, but the recommended enclosure size is so large, it would be a pain to pull it off. "Center Console" makes it sound like the mids will be closer to me than the mid ranges or tweeters. The speakers will be on the same distance and level as the mid range, just firing from the center in.

So imagine sitting beside a enclosure, that is to your right, that has two midbass drivers in it. On left channel, one right channel, each facing opposite directions. In this scenario both the left and right channel drivers are to you right. Really going to be a localized sound that will ruin your soundstage and any chance of decent imaging.

[edouble101 314]

I will also add that unless you plan on extensive door modifications or kicks, stick with your two-way.

[gibsonm21 1]

If you want a realistic soundstage and decent imagining then this is what I would do....

I am going to be moving from my current 2 way passive system(JL ZR650s) to a 3 way active system. I originally planned to go full Beyma mids and highs, but ever since my ZR woofers broke in, I have fallen in love with their sound and I have decided to keep them as my mid range and add the ZR800s as my mid bass drivers; I also will be using the Beyma AST09 3 inch super tweeter.

Why are you using a Beyma super tweeter?

I have a 08 Tahoe. My current setup has the woofer in the stock location and the tweeter in the stock A pillar location. I plan to build an enclosure in my center console for my 8's(one firing to both the driver and passenger side/not in between the seats) and glass my doors to fit the tweeter, but I had a couple of questions regarding my midbass enclosure and my tweeters.

1. I am planning to build the enclosure to specs, but JL recomends A little over a cube tuned to 32hz per driver. That tuning seems a little low for a midbass driver to me. Should I stick to those specs?

Is this enclosure spec for the 8"? If you want to use them as midbass mount them in your doors. I would not tune a midbass driver to 32hz. The lowest I would go is 50hz. If you want to use those 8" as sub and midbass duties then a 32hz tuning should work. Again mount them in your doors if you are using them for midbass. You maybe able to just run them on an open baffle (door) like you are and be great!

2. Since I will still have my JL tweeters in the A pillars, my plan was to run those in order to raise my stage. Will I run into problems with that considering they're different tweeters or is it something I can overcome with eq?

Get rid of the super tweeter. Keep your JL tweeter in the a-pillar and mount the midrange in the kicks and mid bass in the doors. Our ears are sensitive to stage height based on higher frequencies. This is why it is a good idea to mount tweeters up high (this is where you get stage height). Midrange frequencies are not so vertically limited. This is why kick mounting midrange to equalize path length differences works well with forming a good soundstage and imaging. Midbass frequencies are not so localized by placement (ie. height, equalizing pld's). You can optimize you midbass crossover point to help with stage width.

As far as my mids, I often listen to my music with my subs off, so I wouldn't mind a mid that can play low comfortably.

Crossover points on paper are a guildline.

Planned Setup/approximate crossover points:

- Pioneer Z120bt

- JL ZR800s(50-200hz/12db) possibly xover higher to help with stage width, gotta tune and see

- JL ZR650(200-4.5khz/12db)

- Beyma AST09(4khz/24)

- JL ZR100CT(~4.5 on up )

- Infinity Kappa 6.5 coaxial(rear fill only for midbass reinforcement if necessary and a tad of ambiance)

- BITONE

- ZED Leviathan

- Powerbass XAX 4160

I'm using the super tweeter, because I like sound it produces, the jl tweeter is a little too bright. As far as the Infinity coaxials, those were rear-fill. The XO points were approximate, but I based those off a build that i demo'd using the same drivers (minus the beyma tweeters).

[Tirefryr 1,742]

The JL tweeters were too bright so you went to supertweets? That's like saying your Corvette has too much power so you installed turbos on it.

[ssh 924]

If you want a realistic soundstage and decent imagining then this is what I would do....

I am going to be moving from my current 2 way passive system(JL ZR650s) to a 3 way active system. I originally planned to go full Beyma mids and highs, but ever since my ZR woofers broke in, I have fallen in love with their sound and I have decided to keep them as my mid range and add the ZR800s as my mid bass drivers; I also will be using the Beyma AST09 3 inch super tweeter.

Why are you using a Beyma super tweeter?

I have a 08 Tahoe. My current setup has the woofer in the stock location and the tweeter in the stock A pillar location. I plan to build an enclosure in my center console for my 8's(one firing to both the driver and passenger side/not in between the seats) and glass my doors to fit the tweeter, but I had a couple of questions regarding my midbass enclosure and my tweeters.

1. I am planning to build the enclosure to specs, but JL recomends A little over a cube tuned to 32hz per driver. That tuning seems a little low for a midbass driver to me. Should I stick to those specs?

Is this enclosure spec for the 8"? If you want to use them as midbass mount them in your doors. I would not tune a midbass driver to 32hz. The lowest I would go is 50hz. If you want to use those 8" as sub and midbass duties then a 32hz tuning should work. Again mount them in your doors if you are using them for midbass. You maybe able to just run them on an open baffle (door) like you are and be great!

2. Since I will still have my JL tweeters in the A pillars, my plan was to run those in order to raise my stage. Will I run into problems with that considering they're different tweeters or is it something I can overcome with eq?

Get rid of the super tweeter. Keep your JL tweeter in the a-pillar and mount the midrange in the kicks and mid bass in the doors. Our ears are sensitive to stage height based on higher frequencies. This is why it is a good idea to mount tweeters up high (this is where you get stage height). Midrange frequencies are not so vertically limited. This is why kick mounting midrange to equalize path length differences works well with forming a good soundstage and imaging. Midbass frequencies are not so localized by placement (ie. height, equalizing pld's). You can optimize you midbass crossover point to help with stage width.

As far as my mids, I often listen to my music with my subs off, so I wouldn't mind a mid that can play low comfortably.

Crossover points on paper are a guildline.

Planned Setup/approximate crossover points:

- Pioneer Z120bt

- JL ZR800s(50-200hz/12db) possibly xover higher to help with stage width, gotta tune and see

- JL ZR650(200-4.5khz/12db)

- Beyma AST09(4khz/24)

- JL ZR100CT(~4.5 on up )

- Infinity Kappa 6.5 coaxial(rear fill only for midbass reinforcement if necessary and a tad of ambiance)

- BITONE

- ZED Leviathan

- Powerbass XAX 4160

I'm using the super tweeter, because I like sound it produces, the jl tweeter is a little too bright. As far as the Infinity coaxials, those were rear-fill. The XO points were approximate, but I based those off a build that i demo'd using the same drivers (minus the beyma tweeters).

How did you listen to the super tweeters? full range? active? If so what crossover points and slopes? Reason I ask, the JLs could possibly be EQ'd and crossed over differently and in turn sound completely different.

Also on stage height, if you position the tweeters directly below the midrange drivers, it can raise the stage height.

[edouble101 314]

@stefanhinote

I would rather deal with glass reflections than leg deffraction/interference Some of the best mid/tweet kicks have attenuated tweets dash mounted too. PITA IMO

[gibsonm21 1]

The JL tweeters were too bright so you went to supertweets? That's like saying your Corvette has too much power so you installed turbos on it.

You would think so, but thats not the case. There's no question the supertweeter can produce more sound, but it also produces a better sound IMO.

If you want a realistic soundstage and decent imagining then this is what I would do....

I am going to be moving from my current 2 way passive system(JL ZR650s) to a 3 way active system. I originally planned to go full Beyma mids and highs, but ever since my ZR woofers broke in, I have fallen in love with their sound and I have decided to keep them as my mid range and add the ZR800s as my mid bass drivers; I also will be using the Beyma AST09 3 inch super tweeter.

Why are you using a Beyma super tweeter?

I have a 08 Tahoe. My current setup has the woofer in the stock location and the tweeter in the stock A pillar location. I plan to build an enclosure in my center console for my 8's(one firing to both the driver and passenger side/not in between the seats) and glass my doors to fit the tweeter, but I had a couple of questions regarding my midbass enclosure and my tweeters.

1. I am planning to build the enclosure to specs, but JL recomends A little over a cube tuned to 32hz per driver. That tuning seems a little low for a midbass driver to me. Should I stick to those specs?

Is this enclosure spec for the 8"? If you want to use them as midbass mount them in your doors. I would not tune a midbass driver to 32hz. The lowest I would go is 50hz. If you want to use those 8" as sub and midbass duties then a 32hz tuning should work. Again mount them in your doors if you are using them for midbass. You maybe able to just run them on an open baffle (door) like you are and be great!

2. Since I will still have my JL tweeters in the A pillars, my plan was to run those in order to raise my stage. Will I run into problems with that considering they're different tweeters or is it something I can overcome with eq?

Get rid of the super tweeter. Keep your JL tweeter in the a-pillar and mount the midrange in the kicks and mid bass in the doors. Our ears are sensitive to stage height based on higher frequencies. This is why it is a good idea to mount tweeters up high (this is where you get stage height). Midrange frequencies are not so vertically limited. This is why kick mounting midrange to equalize path length differences works well with forming a good soundstage and imaging. Midbass frequencies are not so localized by placement (ie. height, equalizing pld's). You can optimize you midbass crossover point to help with stage width.

As far as my mids, I often listen to my music with my subs off, so I wouldn't mind a mid that can play low comfortably.

Crossover points on paper are a guildline.

Planned Setup/approximate crossover points:

- Pioneer Z120bt

- JL ZR800s(50-200hz/12db) possibly xover higher to help with stage width, gotta tune and see

- JL ZR650(200-4.5khz/12db)

- Beyma AST09(4khz/24)

- JL ZR100CT(~4.5 on up )

- Infinity Kappa 6.5 coaxial(rear fill only for midbass reinforcement if necessary and a tad of ambiance)

- BITONE

- ZED Leviathan

- Powerbass XAX 4160

I'm using the super tweeter, because I like sound it produces, the jl tweeter is a little too bright. As far as the Infinity coaxials, those were rear-fill. The XO points were approximate, but I based those off a build that i demo'd using the same drivers (minus the beyma tweeters).

How did you listen to the super tweeters? full range? active? If so what crossover points and slopes? Reason I ask, the JLs could possibly be EQ'd and crossed over differently and in turn sound completely different.

Also on stage height, if you position the tweeters directly below the midrange drivers, it can raise the stage height.

When I heard the supertweeters, the only XO was the inline HP that comes with the tweeter.

[ssh 924]

@stefanhinote

I would rather deal with glass reflections than leg deffraction/interference Some of the best mid/tweet kicks have attenuated tweets dash mounted too. PITA IMO

Did you have kicks in the Hyundai? Have you ever moved your leg around and noticed a difference in sound?

[edouble101 314]

@stefanhinote

I would rather deal with glass reflections than leg deffraction/interference Some of the best mid/tweet kicks have attenuated tweets dash mounted too. PITA IMO

Did you have kicks in the Hyundai? Have you ever moved your leg around and noticed a difference in sound?

I am in the "tuning" stage with the Hyundai. To answer your question, I do not have fabricated kicks but have tested speaker placement. From my testing I can very easily affect high frequency ouput with the tweeter mounted low. Therfore affecting stage height.

Do you feel otherwise?

[ssh 924]

@stefanhinote

I would rather deal with glass reflections than leg deffraction/interference Some of the best mid/tweet kicks have attenuated tweets dash mounted too. PITA IMO

Did you have kicks in the Hyundai? Have you ever moved your leg around and noticed a difference in sound?

I am in the "tuning" stage with the Hyundai. To answer your question, I do not have fabricated kicks but have tested speaker placement. From my testing I can very easily affect high frequency ouput with the tweeter mounted low. Therfore affecting stage height.

Do you feel otherwise?

The stage in my car appears to be a few inches above and beyond my dash, I've used several sq tracks from the focal lab cds and sheriff for testing out the edges and so forth, this is all with my tweeters positioned directly below my midrange in the kicks. My left leg actually does block visibility of the drivers at times, but I don't seem to notice in difference in sound when driving and listening.

I just wondered what you experienced in your setup.

[Randal Johnson 544]

I am going to be moving from my current 2 way passive system(JL ZR650s) to a 3 way active system. I originally planned to go full Beyma mids and highs, but ever since my ZR woofers broke in, I have fallen in love with their sound and I have decided to keep them as my mid range and add the ZR800s as my mid bass drivers; I also will be using the Beyma AST09 3 inch super tweeter.

I have a 08 Tahoe. My current setup has the woofer in the stock location and the tweeter in the stock A pillar location. I plan to build an enclosure in my center console for my 8's(one firing to both the driver and passenger side/not in between the seats) and glass my doors to fit the tweeter, but I had a couple of questions regarding my midbass enclosure and my tweeters.

1. I am planning to build the enclosure to specs, but JL recomends A little over a cube tuned to 32hz per driver. That tuning seems a little low for a midbass driver to me. Should I stick to those specs?

2. Since I will still have my JL tweeters in the A pillars, my plan was to run those in order to raise my stage. Will I run into problems with that considering they're different tweeters or is it something I can overcome with eq?

As far as my mids, I often listen to my music with my subs off, so I wouldn't mind a mid that can play low comfortably.

Kicks are not an option as I value leg room more and I have yet to hear a kick panel setup that was worth losing the leg room. As far as the door, it is a viable option, but the recommended enclosure size is so large, it would be a pain to pull it off. "Center Console" makes it sound like the mids will be closer to me than the mid ranges or tweeters. The speakers will be on the same distance and level as the mid range, just firing from the center in.

Sounds like alot of work just to achieve a proper stage and image ... and have a clean and powerful system at the same time ...

Couldn't you just deaden your doors and fabricate a 8 inch driver in each door ... and try your A-pillars the way they are before making any more changes ... You might like the outcome ...

I have a similar vehicle set up 2 way passive (a-pillars / doors) ... works great ...

just a suggestion here ...

[gibsonm21 1]

Since I'm going to have to fab my doors to fit the tweeter anyways, I plan to create full door pods to fit an 8, a 6 1/2, and a 3" tweeter. I have alot of open space in my center console extension( I have my 450/4 in there now), so it would afford me alot of space to work with to build a proper enclosure for the mids. If its a fail, then I'll look at moving them back to the doors. I also planned on trying just the beyma tweeter first to see if I like the height before I try to JL tweeters too.

[Randal Johnson 544]

best of luck sir !!!