BTL N212 advise,

[Vieceli 0]

I plan on just getting one 12 btl that puts out 2000 rms, but I want to connect two amps. Do I make the sub 1ohm or 2? I have a planet audio 1ohm 950w that puts out 650 rms, so I'm gunna need another amp any suggestions? Also what's a p chamfer, HiXcoil and universal mean? By the way I'm driving an 03 dodge stratus, if I put them in the trunk its gunna rattle don't you think. I was thinking of getting it custom built in the middle of my back seat. Any advise would be great, thank you.

[Sencheezy 689]

I plan on just getting one 12 btl that puts out 2000 rms, but I want to connect two amps. Do I make the sub 1ohm or 2? I have a planet audio 1ohm 950w that puts out 650 rms, so I'm gunna need another amp any suggestions? Also what's a p chamfer, HiXcoil and universal mean? By the way I'm driving an 03 dodge stratus, if I put them in the trunk its gunna rattle don't you think. I was thinking of getting it custom built in the middle of my back seat. Any advise would be great, thank you.

Ok, first, the sub woofer doesn't put out 2000 rms, this is the sub woofers power handling from the manufacture. Do answer your first question, we need to know what coil configuration did you purchase. If you ever plan on strapping your current amp with any other amp, it has to be the exact same amplifier, make/model. If you are looking to add more power, I would suggest selling that amplifier, and purchasing another one that will meet your needs, keeping in mind what your current electrical system can handle. Also, please note you don't NEED more power to get loud with that sub woofer. If you put this enclosure, yes, your trunk will rattle, especially if you have not taken any treatments methods thus far. You don't want to put any enclosure in your back seat (lol), this is a bad thing, If you would like to have the enclosure inside your vehicle, I would suggest building a wall. Other wise, your option are to have enclosure inside your truck, from there you can decide what positioning you would like to go with. I would suggest sub up/port back or sub back/port back unless you plan on sealing it from the trunk, in that case, I would fire both towards cabin area.

[Frostedflakejake 148]

Strapping two different amplifiers is a messy situation. I know nothing about those amps, but are they strappable?

and if you aren't talking about strapping amplifiers,

Running each voice coil off of it's own amplifier is also a messy situation and should be avoided if you don't have vast experience. Running each voice coil off of two different amplifiers (Your planet audio and some other amp) is a bad idea and shouldn't be done at all.

My advice: If your planet audio amp is strappable, then get another one of them. If not, sell it and buy a more appropriate amplifier.

Actually, my advice is to get rid of the amp you have and avoid the situation of two amplifiers on one sub!

Directly from the Fi website:


P Chamfer: This is a chamfer on the end of the pole, it helps to bring the air down around inside of the motor and helps cool the coil better. It also helps relieve the pressure underneath the dustcap. We recommend at the bare minimum to get this option if you choose this series of woofers..


HiXmCoil: This coil is simply much longer than the normal dual 1ohm or dual 2ohm flatwire coils and allows for more xmax. If you are using this in a daily scenario we suggest that you choose this option, especially in the 15 and 18 inch models.


Universal: This option gives you the choice to later chance the impedence of your voice coils. You can change from dual 2’s to dual 1’s and vice versa by reconing them. If you do not choose this option your motor(s) will be optimized per the coil resistance that you have chosen. (Dual 2’s will forever be a dual 2 motor, Dual 1 will forever be a Dual 1 motor).

Edited February 28, 2012 by Frostedflakejake

[Vieceli 0]

Alright well as of loud an good quality what about these subs? I want something that really bangs but I want the music to sound good an clear. I was also thinking about 2 BL12 or the one sp415. What your saying is I need a good amp to get the full rms out of each these subs? What would be my best bet in your guys opinion. I know I'll be getting a ported box for whateva I choose

[Vieceli 0]

What's does a 2ohm do that a 1 ohm doesn'tdo

[Sencheezy 689]

Alright well as of loud an good quality what about these subs? I want something that really bangs but I want the music to sound good an clear. I was also thinking about 2 BL12 or the one sp415. What your saying is I need a good amp to get the full rms out of each these subs? What would be my best bet in your guys opinion. I know I'll be getting a ported box for whateva I choose

These subs are loud and of are made out of high quality parts. All the subs that your looking at ''really bangs" and sound good and clear. If you want more output, you may consider two bl12 vs one sp415, either way is good. Yes, I'm saying you would benefit from using a better amp than mentioned above. Try not to concentrate too much on the rms of any subwoofer as well. Those numbers can change with each install. Your best bet would to look around this forum, and look at what other people are using. Go look at the build log section, and take a few hours/days and get an idea what brands people are using here. Ported box is a good decision if your looking for a little bit more output.

What's does a 2ohm do that a 1 ohm doesn'tdo

Nothing, they are the same value in terms of output, though this topic can go more into detail, I would save the speach, and chose the one that matches your amplifier at its given load stable.

[Frostedflakejake 148]

What your saying is I need a good amp to get the full rms out of each these subs?

Not necessarily. The BTL would do just fine on 900 watts. I meant that if you wanted to get the full RMS, doing it in the way you described would be a poor choice.

[16K 159]

I would sell that amp and get a 2k Amp..like aq2200

I've ran btl n2s and they sound amazing on music so don't worry about that issue.

[AllenH427 10]

Is this your first time looking to add a substage?

[Vieceli 0]

Is this your first time looking to add a substage?

No I'm just not sure if I want one or two subs, if I go with the btl12 I'm getting one if I go with the Bl12 I'm getting two. My last set up was two kicker cvr with kicker1000w amp and one L7kicker with my planet studio.

[Vieceli 0]

What your saying is I need a good amp to get the full rms out of each these subs?

Not necessarily. The BTL would do just fine on 900 watts. I meant that if you wanted to get the full RMS, doing it in the way you described would be a poor choice.

. 900 w amp on a sub that puts out 2000 w ? Really, I'd like to get more out of it

[NDMstang65 403]

Speakers do not 'put out' wattage.

They take electrical energy and convert it to acoustical output..or sound.

For a 900 watt amp...look into a SSD with cooling. I would not pour money into a N2 when you do not need it.

[Frostedflakejake 148]

No I'm just not sure if I want one or two subs, if I go with the btl12 I'm getting one if I go with the Bl12 I'm getting two

Okay. Let's do this the right way. What's your budget? For everyything. Do you already have anything you can use in your next build? (head unit, wiring, batteries, High Output alternater, ect.) If you are going to be running either a single BTL or two BL's and want more power than the amplifier you have, I suggest selling it and getting a more appropriate amplifier.

What are your goals for the system as well? A daily get-real-loud system?

[Vieceli 0]

I want a daily loud system. I'm putting speakers and a new deck in also. I'd like to spend under 1500 but willing to go 2000. I don't have anything at the moment, maybe a JL audio amp that's 1600w, but I'm not sure if the guy will sell it. I wanna do this right, so your help is greatly appreciated

[16K 159]

2 BLs > 1 BTL

[Frostedflakejake 148]

In your case, I would get two BL's as opposed to one BTL. With that budget however, it is likely that you won't be able to provide the full RMS to either two BL's or one BTL. But that is okay. They do not need full RMS to be happy or to perform well.

Running 3000 watts is going to require significant electrical upgrades which would probably put you over budget. You could buy a large amplifier now and simply run it with the gains tuned down and then upgrade your electrical when you have the funds. It's a tricky game of whether or not its worth the money to run that extra 1500 watts or so. Some think it is. Many think it isn't. Something you will have to decide for yourself.

If you do not like the idea of upgrading more in the future and have no intention of pouring more money into this, I would have personally suggested to still run the BL's at only half RMS. But it would be ignorant to ignore Nick's word. Thus, if you don't plan on upgrading your electrical system in the future at all, I would take Nick's suggestion into high consideration and order SSD's instead.

But, if it was me, I would plan on upgrading my electrical in the future.

So to get a run down:

1) I would order how ever many BL's opted me the most cone area that would actually fit in my vehicle. ( ONE 12" < ONE 15" < TWO 12"s < ONE 18" < THREE 12's < TWO 15's ) Lets say you get two 12''s ~ $700 shipped with the options, maybe less.

2) I would order somewhere near a 3000 watt amplifier. I would look used or refurbished. Db-r is a company that refurbishes Sundown Audio amplifiers and is where I purchased my amplifier. Unfortunately, right now the largest they have is a 1500 watt. Which would still make you more than happy, but it doesn't sound like you entirely like that idea. Which can be justified; you'll always wonder "what if I had more?" I would wait till I found either a SAZ-2000, SAZ-2500, or a SAZ-3000 used. If that wasn't happening soon enough, I would start looking into AudioQue. Lots of people here run their amplifiers with no problems at all. Companies that have a strong reputation for amplifiers: MTX Audio, Rockford Fosgate, Sundown Audio, Crescendo Audio (fairly new, but still has gotten good reviews), Incriminator Audio, US Amps. Some companies that are known to be good value: AudioQue & Audiopipe. I would personally rather run an AudioQue as I have heard more good things about them. But I would also perfer to run any of the earlier listed amps to either of those. That's just personal opinion from the things I've heard. 99% of the time an amplifier failure is the users fault. This really shouldn't cost much more than $500. You could shave off a couple hundred by buying a used AudioQue and if you're really keen on your budget, that might be a good idea.

3) Head Unit. The big three is always a safe bet. Alpine, Kenwood, Pioneer. This one is on you. Try to find a store or a buddy that has a deck or two you can check out. Use them in the store. See how you like them and buy the one that best fits into your budget. ~$200?

4) Wiring. Just get some wire of the correct gauge. There are plenty of threads comparing wiring on here. Welding Cable for power and ground wire. Monoprice.com for RCA's. ~80? maybe $100

5) Speakers. That's a whole other jar of worms. This is so much of personal preference and how much effort you are willing to put into the install. Mostly the second half of that sentence. For example, for my front doors I have some speakers that are in the middle of the price range I would say. I spent the time to seal my doors and deaden them. Took extra cash and a lot, a lot of extra time. But I didn't do anything to the back doors because i have $25 used Rockford Fosgate Type R components in them. It wouldn't make since for me to stick $200 speakers back there if I'm not going to spend the time to do the bare minimum (deaden and seal) to make the doors acoustically well.

6) Extra battery. If you have the money now, do it. If not, watch your voltage and adjust the gain on the amplifier accordingly.

7) Miscellaneous. Includes anything else. The wood to build the box for example. If you have the tools, or access to the tools, to build a box you can save money by doing it yourself. It's not as hard as it seems.

So without Speakers and a Battery that puts you at $1500. Those are rough price estimates but let you know what ballpark you are in.

I know the post is long, but if you aren't willing to read through it all then you probably aren't ready to do this type of install. If I were in your shoes, and that was my goal, I would approach in the way stated above.

Edited March 1, 2012 by Frostedflakejake

[Vieceli 0]

In your case, I would get two BL's as opposed to one BTL. With that budget however, it is likely that you won't be able to provide the full RMS to either two BL's or one BTL. But that is okay. They do not need full RMS to be happy or to perform well.

Running 3000 watts is going to require significant electrical upgrades which would probably put you over budget. You could buy a large amplifier now and simply run it with the gains tuned down and then upgrade your electrical when you have the funds. It's a tricky game of whether or not its worth the money to run that extra 1500 watts or so. Some think it is. Many think it isn't. Something you will have to decide for yourself.

If you do not like the idea of upgrading more in the future and have no intention of pouring more money into this, I would have personally suggested to still run the BL's at only half RMS. But it would be ignorant to ignore Nick's word. Thus, if you don't plan on upgrading your electrical system in the future at all, I would take Nick's suggestion into high consideration and order SSD's instead.

But, if it was me, I would plan on upgrading my electrical in the future.

So to get a run down:

1) I would order how ever many BL's opted me the most cone area that would actually fit in my vehicle. ( ONE 12" < ONE 15" < TWO 12"s < ONE 18" < THREE 12's < TWO 15's ) Lets say you get two 12''s ~ $700 shipped with the options, maybe less.

2) I would order somewhere near a 3000 watt amplifier. I would look used or refurbished. Db-r is a company that refurbishes Sundown Audio amplifiers and is where I purchased my amplifier. Unfortunately, right now the largest they have is a 1500 watt. Which would still make you more than happy, but it doesn't sound like you entirely like that idea. Which can be justified; you'll always wonder "what if I had more?" I would wait till I found either a SAZ-2000, SAZ-2500, or a SAZ-3000 used. If that wasn't happening soon enough, I would start looking into AudioQue. Lots of people here run their amplifiers with no problems at all. Companies that have a strong reputation for amplifiers: MTX Audio, Rockford Fosgate, Sundown Audio, Crescendo Audio (fairly new, but still has gotten good reviews), Incriminator Audio, US Amps. Some companies that are known to be good value: AudioQue & Audiopipe. I would personally rather run an AudioQue as I have heard more good things about them. But I would also perfer to run any of the earlier listed amps to either of those. That's just personal opinion from the things I've heard. 99% of the time an amplifier failure is the users fault. This really shouldn't cost much more than $500. You could shave off a couple hundred by buying a used AudioQue and if you're really keen on your budget, that might be a good idea.

3) Head Unit. The big three is always a safe bet. Alpine, Kenwood, Pioneer. This one is on you. Try to find a store or a buddy that has a deck or two you can check out. Use them in the store. See how you like them and buy the one that best fits into your budget. ~$200?

4) Wiring. Just get some wire of the correct gauge. There are plenty of threads comparing wiring on here. Welding Cable for power and ground wire. Monoprice.com for RCA's. ~80? maybe $100

5) Speakers. That's a whole other jar of worms. This is so much of personal preference and how much effort you are willing to put into the install. Mostly the second half of that sentence. For example, for my front doors I have some speakers that are in the middle of the price range I would say. I spent the time to seal my doors and deaden them. Took extra cash and a lot, a lot of extra time. But I didn't do anything to the back doors because i have $25 used Rockford Fosgate Type R components in them. It wouldn't make since for me to stick $200 speakers back there if I'm not going to spend the time to do the bare minimum (deaden and seal) to make the doors acoustically well.

6) Extra battery. If you have the money now, do it. If not, watch your voltage and adjust the gain on the amplifier accordingly.

7) Miscellaneous. Includes anything else. The wood to build the box for example. If you have the tools, or access to the tools, to build a box you can save money by doing it yourself. It's not as hard as it seems.

So without Speakers and a Battery that puts you at $1500. Those are rough price estimates but let you know what ballpark you are in.

I know the post is long, but if you aren't willing to read through it all then you probably aren't ready to do this type of install. If I were in your shoes, and that was my goal, I would approach in the way stated above.

I read the whole thing. I'm going to go with the two BL's 12in ported box that I'm gunna have to get made. Speakers though, if I dont get them deaden and sealed when I get the install, is the bass going to distort the sound, you know what I mean!? I want some speakers that are going to be real loud so I don't just hear the damn bass. This is going to be in my trunk so is there something I can do to prevent all the rattle. Now I'm going to get a kinetic battery that I guess I can sit next to my subs so I don't kill my alternator,thats what my buddy told me to do. Amp wise I'm going to look into a 3000w amp, not sure what one though. And for my deck, probably some nice touch screen I can find online for a good price.

[AllenH427 10]

In your case, I would get two BL's as opposed to one BTL. With that budget however, it is likely that you won't be able to provide the full RMS to either two BL's or one BTL. But that is okay. They do not need full RMS to be happy or to perform well.

Running 3000 watts is going to require significant electrical upgrades which would probably put you over budget. You could buy a large amplifier now and simply run it with the gains tuned down and then upgrade your electrical when you have the funds. It's a tricky game of whether or not its worth the money to run that extra 1500 watts or so. Some think it is. Many think it isn't. Something you will have to decide for yourself.

If you do not like the idea of upgrading more in the future and have no intention of pouring more money into this, I would have personally suggested to still run the BL's at only half RMS. But it would be ignorant to ignore Nick's word. Thus, if you don't plan on upgrading your electrical system in the future at all, I would take Nick's suggestion into high consideration and order SSD's instead.

But, if it was me, I would plan on upgrading my electrical in the future.

So to get a run down:

1) I would order how ever many BL's opted me the most cone area that would actually fit in my vehicle. ( ONE 12" < ONE 15" < TWO 12"s < ONE 18" < THREE 12's < TWO 15's ) Lets say you get two 12''s ~ $700 shipped with the options, maybe less.

2) I would order somewhere near a 3000 watt amplifier. I would look used or refurbished. Db-r is a company that refurbishes Sundown Audio amplifiers and is where I purchased my amplifier. Unfortunately, right now the largest they have is a 1500 watt. Which would still make you more than happy, but it doesn't sound like you entirely like that idea. Which can be justified; you'll always wonder "what if I had more?" I would wait till I found either a SAZ-2000, SAZ-2500, or a SAZ-3000 used. If that wasn't happening soon enough, I would start looking into AudioQue. Lots of people here run their amplifiers with no problems at all. Companies that have a strong reputation for amplifiers: MTX Audio, Rockford Fosgate, Sundown Audio, Crescendo Audio (fairly new, but still has gotten good reviews), Incriminator Audio, US Amps. Some companies that are known to be good value: AudioQue & Audiopipe. I would personally rather run an AudioQue as I have heard more good things about them. But I would also perfer to run any of the earlier listed amps to either of those. That's just personal opinion from the things I've heard. 99% of the time an amplifier failure is the users fault. This really shouldn't cost much more than $500. You could shave off a couple hundred by buying a used AudioQue and if you're really keen on your budget, that might be a good idea.

3) Head Unit. The big three is always a safe bet. Alpine, Kenwood, Pioneer. This one is on you. Try to find a store or a buddy that has a deck or two you can check out. Use them in the store. See how you like them and buy the one that best fits into your budget. ~$200?

4) Wiring. Just get some wire of the correct gauge. There are plenty of threads comparing wiring on here. Welding Cable for power and ground wire. Monoprice.com for RCA's. ~80? maybe $100

5) Speakers. That's a whole other jar of worms. This is so much of personal preference and how much effort you are willing to put into the install. Mostly the second half of that sentence. For example, for my front doors I have some speakers that are in the middle of the price range I would say. I spent the time to seal my doors and deaden them. Took extra cash and a lot, a lot of extra time. But I didn't do anything to the back doors because i have $25 used Rockford Fosgate Type R components in them. It wouldn't make since for me to stick $200 speakers back there if I'm not going to spend the time to do the bare minimum (deaden and seal) to make the doors acoustically well.

6) Extra battery. If you have the money now, do it. If not, watch your voltage and adjust the gain on the amplifier accordingly.

7) Miscellaneous. Includes anything else. The wood to build the box for example. If you have the tools, or access to the tools, to build a box you can save money by doing it yourself. It's not as hard as it seems.

So without Speakers and a Battery that puts you at $1500. Those are rough price estimates but let you know what ballpark you are in.

I know the post is long, but if you aren't willing to read through it all then you probably aren't ready to do this type of install. If I were in your shoes, and that was my goal, I would approach in the way stated above.

I read the whole thing. I'm going to go with the two BL's 12in ported box that I'm gunna have to get made. Speakers though, if I dont get them deaden and sealed when I get the install, is the bass going to distort the sound, you know what I mean!? I want some speakers that are going to be real loud so I don't just hear the damn bass. This is going to be in my trunk so is there something I can do to prevent all the rattle. Now I'm going to get a kinetic battery that I guess I can sit next to my subs so I don't kill my alternator,thats what my buddy told me to do. Amp wise I'm going to look into a 3000w amp, not sure what one though. And for my deck, probably some nice touch screen I can find online for a good price.

A kenetik battery is an AGM battery... That means you have to use an AGM battery under your hood as well. For 3,000 watts, just 1 extra battery isn't going to cut it. You'll need 3 batteries and you'll see some voltage drop, or 2 batteries and a 180-200 amp HO alt and you'll see very little voltage drop. If I were you, I'd just get a single BL 15 off of a 1200-1500w amp. You'll be saving money all around then and will still be loud.

[Vieceli 0]

so I get the amg on both or get some powerful battery

[Vieceli 0]

Amazon has amazing deals on amps

[Vieceli 0]

1 ohm on both sub an amp unless I wanna connect a amp to each sub rite

[Frostedflakejake 148]

^{I want some speakers that are going to be real loud so I don't just hear the damn bass.}

^{That's easy, relatively cheap, and won't require any extra work. You won't need to deaden or do any work if you want them loud. You can always install them to the bare door and if it suits your needs then leave it be! I would suggest some used Alpine Type R's, but as I said, it would be beneficial to test some for yourself.}

^{For that much power (3000 watts) you will need at least a large extra battery and a high output alternator. If you can't afford them yet and still want a large amplifier, buy the amp and turn the gains down. A 3000 watt amplifier doesn't always make 3000 watts. It will actually very, very rarely make that much power. Turn the gains down until it's a reasonable level for the type of electrical system you have.}

^{For reference. I've been running a saz-3000d off of a Iraggi high output alt and a Shuriken BT-120 in my trunk for almost 2 years now with no issues. Buy a voltmeter and monitor the voltage going to your amplifier.}

^{To run at 1ohm, you need both BL's to be Dual 1 ohm. You also need an amplifier that is stable down to 1 ohm.}

^{Post whatever amp you are thinking of before buying it.}

Edited March 2, 2012 by Frostedflakejake

[Vieceli 0]

Okay well i ordered the 2 BLs 1 ohm, getting a jvc bluetooth and usb compatible deck for 200, amp i think im going with an RX -2500. Plus the extra kentic battery or w.e i got with, maybe a stronger alternator, not sure yet. and jbl 6 by nine speakers on front and back with another 4 channel amp for that.

[altoncustomtech 773]

I have to say this and I mean absolutely NO disrespect to you Vieceli in saying this, but it's fairly obvious by the content in the questions you've asked and your answers to the questions others have asked that you are very new to this hobby and/or don't understand many of the basics involved. Now, there's nothing wrong with that and quite honestly this forum is the best place to be to learn, but I honestly believe that trying to purchase a BTL and power it with an amp capable of delivering it's rated power is putting you in WAY over your head. There's much much more to the installation and setup of a system that powerful than just buying some nice stuff and throwing it together.

I would HIGHLY suggest trying out some of the lower powered subs offered by Fi such as the X or SSD's for example. They will offer fantastic performance and not require as nearly as much in the setup to run them to their potential. The BTL's and SP4's will have to have VERY well built, well braced and well sealed enclosures, much better built and braced than the others would require. Running 2k+ watts of power will require a great deal of electrical upgrades to properly power without potentially damaging something. All these things require build and installation experience that, though I could be wrong, doesn't seem like you have at this time. I make the recommendation to try a lower powered quality sub and setup only to help curb the blown sub, blown amp, or both situations that we've seen many times with other people who simply weren't experienced enough for such a setup.

Just my .02 but I think you'd be very impressed with a pair of SSA DCON's or Fi X series subs in a properly built custom enclosure (like one from a vendor on this site) on the amp you currently own. Then as you learn and develope the skills upgrade your amp, subs, electrical and such until you have the setup you are truly desiring.

[Frostedflakejake 148]

RX -2500

What is this? Do you have a link?

Alton speaks wise words. It appears you've already purchased the BL's. Don't be too discouraged; my first car audio set-up that i had any involvement with was a BTL on a SAZ-3000d. Be really careful. Read alot. People around here sometime discourage from "stupid" questions. Don't let that get to you. We can just get sick of them when 4 different people ask the same question in one week.

You said you were getting a box built? By whom if you don't mind me asking?