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Will you help me design a SQ Front Stage/Custom A-Pillars?


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#1 jonblack

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 08:53 PM

Hello everybody

I'm new here. I worked as a car audio and alarm installer 15 years ago. I have not had a decent system since...well...a long time.

I bought a 1997 Honda Odyssey and I really like the van. I'd like to build a nice system.

Can you give me suggestions on what components to use for a nice simple front sound stage that focuses on sound quality?

I like "vocally" music. I also like dubstep and house music. I really like vocally dubstep. I also listen to talk-radio.

I am thinking I am going to use a SSA DCON or GCON for bass. Maybe a SKAR 800.1 for a sub amp. I have no idea what components to use for the mids and highs. The head unit is a JVC KD-X50BT. I bought the head unit for the Bluetooth phone and Pandora features, and the fact it was $100.

I am thinking I want to make custom a-pillars, since there is a lot of space on the Odyssey dash right where those vent windows are. I know there is no way to make it look stock, but I don't want it to look cheesy either. I really just want to bring the sound stage up because it is all on the floor right now, but I would like it to look tasteful.

What would you suggest on a $250-500 budget, assuming I am providing all of the fabrication and installation?

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Thank you
jonblack

Edited by jonblack, 11 July 2012 - 08:58 PM.


#2 ///M5

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 09:16 PM

Active beyond your goals?

When you say vocal dubstep I need a translation. Only dubstep I've heard sounded like a bad intro to a terrible song so I'm not quite sure how vocals fit in. My music bias is tough as I mostly listen to jazz; however, staging and vocals can fit REALLY well in your car. I'm jealous of your dash and pillars.

Also curious if you are okay with improving the stage for you while hurting it for your passenger.
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Please read my posts with care. I do not pull punches, but state exactly what is on my mind. My goal is to make you think, make you try harder and to improve yourself AND this forum. This doesn't mean that I don't like you, am being aggressive towards you, or have any other hidden meaning. Instead look at it as me trying to make you better. In no way at all should your butt be hurt by my posts. If so, read it differently. You agreed to taking criticism when you joined, doesn't mean that you have to choose to take it personally. The more effort you put into your threads and posts, the more I will in return. What you get out of it is up to you.

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I was. Super proud I didn't shit my pants. I was sure it was going to happen.

We sit on the same bench. Your "asshole" just makes me curious.


#3 jonblack

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 09:30 PM

Active beyond your goals?

When you say vocal dubstep I need a translation. Only dubstep I've heard sounded like a bad intro to a terrible song so I'm not quite sure how vocals fit in. My music bias is tough as I mostly listen to jazz; however, staging and vocals can fit REALLY well in your car. I'm jealous of your dash and pillars.

Also curious if you are okay with improving the stage for you while hurting it for your passenger.


Admittedly, I don't know what you are asking about when you mention "active." The only thing that comes to mind is a crossover, so I am not sure how to answer your question.

I don't think I have ever heard the perfect dubstep song. I guess it would be the vocals from Edie Brickell's Circle with a dubstep bassline. Me...I'm a part of your circle of friends...and we...woomp woomp woomp burm woump woump...Hopefully that makes sense! I just love a dreamy vocal but house music and dubstep really make me want to move.

I would say that I will be the passenger at least 50% of the time so I don't want to kill the soundstage on the passenger side. I realize that approach will be a compromise for the sound stage on the driver's side, but anything is better than what I have right now.

Thank you for brianstorming with me.

jonblack

Edited by jonblack, 11 July 2012 - 09:34 PM.


#4 ///M5

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 09:36 PM

By active I meant crossovers/processing which in reality would be best done with a headunit, but your budget allows that.

With your pillars that'd be my choice; however, it'll kill the stage for the passenger if you did what I'd do which is why I'd ask.

The difficulty you have is that you want height. That means moving the speakers up. Tweeters alone "can" make this work but it's way easier if you bring the midrange higher. With your pillars you could easily hold a rather beefy mid up high and slap a midbass down low and have a kick ass stage, stellar vocals and dynamics. The trade off is the response to the passenger.

Since you sit on that side half the time I'd probably just put a tweeter up high. This can also still be improved if you are willing to run the drivers active and shy away from the car audio world, but this isn't a trivlal thing to do which is why I asked. Since you stated you have installation experience, I assumed that also meant tuning experience which would make this okay. Most people without end up with something worse than passive, but of course the opposite can be true as well.
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Please read my posts with care. I do not pull punches, but state exactly what is on my mind. My goal is to make you think, make you try harder and to improve yourself AND this forum. This doesn't mean that I don't like you, am being aggressive towards you, or have any other hidden meaning. Instead look at it as me trying to make you better. In no way at all should your butt be hurt by my posts. If so, read it differently. You agreed to taking criticism when you joined, doesn't mean that you have to choose to take it personally. The more effort you put into your threads and posts, the more I will in return. What you get out of it is up to you.

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I was. Super proud I didn't shit my pants. I was sure it was going to happen.

We sit on the same bench. Your "asshole" just makes me curious.


#5 jonblack

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 10:03 PM

I'm still a little confused on the active part. Sure, I am open to an active crossover on the mids and highs. I don't have to run a passive crossover. What is making me more confused is you mentioning using the head unit to do that. Are you meaning to run the high pass out of the front set of RCAs? Are there crossovers on moderns amplifiers that are worth using?

I feel I can tune the system. I was involved in pro audio in the mid 1990s. I got hired by several local nightclubs to come in and tune the sound systems. Usually the resident DJ would have the system so out of wack it would barely play. They would normally call me in right before the club opened and hope I could work a miracle. I usually did...

I tuned everything by ear. I had a pair of Carver 1.0t amps at home that I used to run my studio monitors. I feel like I know what good sound is. It's all subjective, though.

I also had a MIDI studio around that time. I always liked the idea of incorporating pro audio equipment like compressors into a mobile audio system.

I guess in my mind, mids have to make vocals sound real. When I close my eyes, she needs to be right in front of me. I need to hear vocal chords and I want to feel her breathe on my neck when she sings. If I can't smell her breath...you get the point.

I definitely want to do more than put a tweeter in the pillar. I was thinking a component set fiberglassed in up there. I was not thinking of using the door for a mid-bass location but I also don't want there to be a gap between a 5.25" or 6.5" and the 12" sub, so I am open to using the doors as a mid-bass support location.

Thanks
jonblack

Edited by jonblack, 11 July 2012 - 10:10 PM.


#6 jonblack

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 10:08 PM

Anybody use Erasure's "A Little Respect" anymore? I guess I am showing my age by saying that was an awesome song back in the early "Crank It Up" days.

jonblack

#7 ///M5

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 10:18 PM

There are plenty of headunits that have active crossovers built in. HP for the highs, BP for the mids, and LP for the subs. Obviously having these controls at your fingertips help. Usually the ones with this feature also have either flexible parametric or lots of graphic equalizer bands.

There are also off board processors that will do this and even allow a 3 way setup (ie midbass in the door, midrange and tweeter up high), however, between the proc, the drivers and amplifiers your budget will be consumed more than once. This means you get to make the compromise.

So then it's time to prioritize what is really important. So far I have stage, vocals AND both passenger and driver. To do that we need to break your budget or compromise. Time to give up one or more if you want to stay under $500. I'd rank them if i were you. :)
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Please read my posts with care. I do not pull punches, but state exactly what is on my mind. My goal is to make you think, make you try harder and to improve yourself AND this forum. This doesn't mean that I don't like you, am being aggressive towards you, or have any other hidden meaning. Instead look at it as me trying to make you better. In no way at all should your butt be hurt by my posts. If so, read it differently. You agreed to taking criticism when you joined, doesn't mean that you have to choose to take it personally. The more effort you put into your threads and posts, the more I will in return. What you get out of it is up to you.

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I was. Super proud I didn't shit my pants. I was sure it was going to happen.

We sit on the same bench. Your "asshole" just makes me curious.


#8 jonblack

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 10:28 PM

Allow me to clarify. Sure, I would love the driver and passenger to have equal aural enjoyment. However, if that is going to require heavy processing (time delay or?) or exotic electronics then I would be willing to compromise. I'd like to keep the system as simple as feasible.

Budget is at the bottom of the list.

1. Select speakers and placement
2. Design the front stage based on selected speakers so I can start fabrication
3. Select amplification and processing

If I go over budget that just means it will take me longer to accomplish my goal. I can live with that. If I start with speakers and amp, I can always add whatever processor is needed to fine tune the system later.

Is my thinking based on sound logic?

jonblack

Edited by jonblack, 11 July 2012 - 10:32 PM.


#9 Randal Johnson

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 10:30 PM

Anybody use Erasure's "A Little Respect" anymore? I guess I am showing my age by saying that was an awesome song back in the early "Crank It Up" days.

WOW ... I haven't heard that song in years.
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#10 jonblack

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 10:57 PM

Here is a Prius (not mine, original site) that has the same sort of a pillar that my Odyssey has. This is what I was thinking of doing. I think I have room for a bigger driver in mine. If I could get away with a nice set of 6.5" components I think I would be happy.

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What advantage do you see to an active crossover network over the matched passive network that is included with most component setups?

Thanks
jonblack

Edited by jonblack, 11 July 2012 - 11:00 PM.


#11 Randal Johnson

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 11:13 PM

( original site)

LOL !!! Sorry for thread jacking, But this was a cool pic !!!!

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#12 Shogen

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 11:13 PM

Usually "going active" gives you more control of the overall sound going to each driver... Not saying a passive 2-way or 3-way is inferior to an active setup but it just allows you alot more control... Once I get my newER amp installed I will have my front stage equipment all ready.. I just need to work on install... I'm only doing a 2-way front stage so using a 4 channel amplifier to power 2x tweet and 2x mids....
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Pioneer Premier P880PRS ll Front Stage: US Acoustics 4060- Random speakers currently ll Sub Stage: Crescendo BC3500D - 15" Xcon sealed @ 3.28 cubes ll Electrical: Mechman 270a - Kinetik HC1800(front) NEW***DieHard P-2(rear)
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ohjay - We're definitely not calorie counters, 'cause we can't count that high.
onebadmonte: Did you feel it?
denim: Yes, both monitors were shaking bad. I work at a mid-size engineering firm. Funny story, the structural department all stood up and none of us said a word and we all hustled out of the building, the entire electrical, process, mechanical and piping departments were staring at us.
Julian: "Our Structural engineering senses are tingling, quick let the weaker electrical, process, mechanical and piping departments die!"

#13 Shogen

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 11:13 PM


( original site)

LOL !!! Sorry for thread jacking, But this was a cool pic !!!!

Posted Image


That guy must've bought all the tweeters off that one car audio site in their classifieds section...
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Pioneer Premier P880PRS ll Front Stage: US Acoustics 4060- Random speakers currently ll Sub Stage: Crescendo BC3500D - 15" Xcon sealed @ 3.28 cubes ll Electrical: Mechman 270a - Kinetik HC1800(front) NEW***DieHard P-2(rear)
Posted Image
ohjay - We're definitely not calorie counters, 'cause we can't count that high.
onebadmonte: Did you feel it?
denim: Yes, both monitors were shaking bad. I work at a mid-size engineering firm. Funny story, the structural department all stood up and none of us said a word and we all hustled out of the building, the entire electrical, process, mechanical and piping departments were staring at us.
Julian: "Our Structural engineering senses are tingling, quick let the weaker electrical, process, mechanical and piping departments die!"

#14 StreetLegal

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 11:18 PM

that 's alot of tweets Posted Image
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#15 jonblack

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 07:18 AM

I'm only doing a 2-way front stage so using a 4 channel amplifier to power 2x tweet and 2x mids....


I like this idea. I have 7 year old Clarion amp in storage that I never pulled out of the box. I don't know the model number and I don't know how good it sounds. I will dig it out.

What crossover network do you plan to use with your setup?

Thanks
jonblack




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