Welcome to SSA Car Audio Forum

Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to contribute to this site by submitting your own content or replying to existing content. You'll be able to customize your profile, receive reputation points as a reward for submitting content, while also communicating with other members via your own private inbox, plus much more! This message will be removed once you have signed in.

jonblack

Will you help me design a SQ Front Stage/Custom A-Pillars?

39 posts in this topic

Hello everybody

I'm new here. I worked as a car audio and alarm installer 15 years ago. I have not had a decent system since...well...a long time.

I bought a 1997 Honda Odyssey and I really like the van. I'd like to build a nice system.

Can you give me suggestions on what components to use for a nice simple front sound stage that focuses on sound quality?

I like "vocally" music. I also like dubstep and house music. I really like vocally dubstep. I also listen to talk-radio.

I am thinking I am going to use a SSA DCON or GCON for bass. Maybe a SKAR 800.1 for a sub amp. I have no idea what components to use for the mids and highs. The head unit is a JVC KD-X50BT. I bought the head unit for the Bluetooth phone and Pandora features, and the fact it was $100.

I am thinking I want to make custom a-pillars, since there is a lot of space on the Odyssey dash right where those vent windows are. I know there is no way to make it look stock, but I don't want it to look cheesy either. I really just want to bring the sound stage up because it is all on the floor right now, but I would like it to look tasteful.

What would you suggest on a $250-500 budget, assuming I am providing all of the fabrication and installation?

front-stage-001.jpg

Thank you

jonblack

Edited by jonblack
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Active beyond your goals?

When you say vocal dubstep I need a translation. Only dubstep I've heard sounded like a bad intro to a terrible song so I'm not quite sure how vocals fit in. My music bias is tough as I mostly listen to jazz; however, staging and vocals can fit REALLY well in your car. I'm jealous of your dash and pillars.

Also curious if you are okay with improving the stage for you while hurting it for your passenger.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Active beyond your goals?

When you say vocal dubstep I need a translation. Only dubstep I've heard sounded like a bad intro to a terrible song so I'm not quite sure how vocals fit in. My music bias is tough as I mostly listen to jazz; however, staging and vocals can fit REALLY well in your car. I'm jealous of your dash and pillars.

Also curious if you are okay with improving the stage for you while hurting it for your passenger.

Admittedly, I don't know what you are asking about when you mention "active." The only thing that comes to mind is a crossover, so I am not sure how to answer your question.

I don't think I have ever heard the perfect dubstep song. I guess it would be the vocals from

with a dubstep bassline. Me...I'm a part of your circle of friends...and we...woomp woomp woomp burm woump woump...Hopefully that makes sense! I just love a dreamy vocal but house music and dubstep really make me want to move.

I would say that I will be the passenger at least 50% of the time so I don't want to kill the soundstage on the passenger side. I realize that approach will be a compromise for the sound stage on the driver's side, but anything is better than what I have right now.

Thank you for brianstorming with me.

jonblack

Edited by jonblack
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

By active I meant crossovers/processing which in reality would be best done with a headunit, but your budget allows that.

With your pillars that'd be my choice; however, it'll kill the stage for the passenger if you did what I'd do which is why I'd ask.

The difficulty you have is that you want height. That means moving the speakers up. Tweeters alone "can" make this work but it's way easier if you bring the midrange higher. With your pillars you could easily hold a rather beefy mid up high and slap a midbass down low and have a kick ass stage, stellar vocals and dynamics. The trade off is the response to the passenger.

Since you sit on that side half the time I'd probably just put a tweeter up high. This can also still be improved if you are willing to run the drivers active and shy away from the car audio world, but this isn't a trivlal thing to do which is why I asked. Since you stated you have installation experience, I assumed that also meant tuning experience which would make this okay. Most people without end up with something worse than passive, but of course the opposite can be true as well.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm still a little confused on the active part. Sure, I am open to an active crossover on the mids and highs. I don't have to run a passive crossover. What is making me more confused is you mentioning using the head unit to do that. Are you meaning to run the high pass out of the front set of RCAs? Are there crossovers on moderns amplifiers that are worth using?

I feel I can tune the system. I was involved in pro audio in the mid 1990s. I got hired by several local nightclubs to come in and tune the sound systems. Usually the resident DJ would have the system so out of wack it would barely play. They would normally call me in right before the club opened and hope I could work a miracle. I usually did...

I tuned everything by ear. I had a pair of Carver 1.0t amps at home that I used to run my studio monitors. I feel like I know what good sound is. It's all subjective, though.

I also had a MIDI studio around that time. I always liked the idea of incorporating pro audio equipment like compressors into a mobile audio system.

I guess in my mind, mids have to make vocals sound real. When I close my eyes, she needs to be right in front of me. I need to hear vocal chords and I want to feel her breathe on my neck when she sings. If I can't smell her breath...you get the point.

I definitely want to do more than put a tweeter in the pillar. I was thinking a component set fiberglassed in up there. I was not thinking of using the door for a mid-bass location but I also don't want there to be a gap between a 5.25" or 6.5" and the 12" sub, so I am open to using the doors as a mid-bass support location.

Thanks

jonblack

Edited by jonblack
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Anybody use

anymore? I guess I am showing my age by saying that was an awesome song back in the early "Crank It Up" days.

jonblack

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There are plenty of headunits that have active crossovers built in. HP for the highs, BP for the mids, and LP for the subs. Obviously having these controls at your fingertips help. Usually the ones with this feature also have either flexible parametric or lots of graphic equalizer bands.

There are also off board processors that will do this and even allow a 3 way setup (ie midbass in the door, midrange and tweeter up high), however, between the proc, the drivers and amplifiers your budget will be consumed more than once. This means you get to make the compromise.

So then it's time to prioritize what is really important. So far I have stage, vocals AND both passenger and driver. To do that we need to break your budget or compromise. Time to give up one or more if you want to stay under $500. I'd rank them if i were you. :)

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Allow me to clarify. Sure, I would love the driver and passenger to have equal aural enjoyment. However, if that is going to require heavy processing (time delay or?) or exotic electronics then I would be willing to compromise. I'd like to keep the system as simple as feasible.

Budget is at the bottom of the list.

1. Select speakers and placement

2. Design the front stage based on selected speakers so I can start fabrication

3. Select amplification and processing

If I go over budget that just means it will take me longer to accomplish my goal. I can live with that. If I start with speakers and amp, I can always add whatever processor is needed to fine tune the system later.

Is my thinking based on sound logic?

jonblack

Edited by jonblack
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Anybody use

anymore? I guess I am showing my age by saying that was an awesome song back in the early "Crank It Up" days.

WOW ... I haven't heard that song in years.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here is a Prius (not mine, original site) that has the same sort of a pillar that my Odyssey has. This is what I was thinking of doing. I think I have room for a bigger driver in mine. If I could get away with a nice set of 6.5" components I think I would be happy.

front-stage-002.jpg

What advantage do you see to an active crossover network over the matched passive network that is included with most component setups?

Thanks

jonblack

Edited by jonblack
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Usually "going active" gives you more control of the overall sound going to each driver... Not saying a passive 2-way or 3-way is inferior to an active setup but it just allows you alot more control... Once I get my newER amp installed I will have my front stage equipment all ready.. I just need to work on install... I'm only doing a 2-way front stage so using a 4 channel amplifier to power 2x tweet and 2x mids....

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

LOL !!! Sorry for thread jacking, But this was a cool pic !!!!

tweeters.jpg

That guy must've bought all the tweeters off that one car audio site in their classifieds section...

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I'm only doing a 2-way front stage so using a 4 channel amplifier to power 2x tweet and 2x mids....

I like this idea. I have 7 year old Clarion amp in storage that I never pulled out of the box. I don't know the model number and I don't know how good it sounds. I will dig it out.

What crossover network do you plan to use with your setup?

Thanks

jonblack

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Your choice is to either see if you can truly fit a comp set up in your pillars, separate the tweeter/mid and put the tweeter up high, or to use a simple active processor a 4chn amplifier and pick your own drivers. Normally I don't push active setups on someone who hasn't done them as the integration normally means at first they sound worse than a passive but since you have install experience and tuning experience it may make sense for you.

If you keep your headunit a single 4chn minidsp can take care of the crossover or of course you could buy an amplifier with a digital processor built in.

Before shopping for drivers you should do two things. 1) Decide how big the pillars can be so that we know an approximate enclosure volume and 2) Choose whether you feel you want to try to conquer an active setup or not.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Interesting topic.

I have the same A pillars, and had the same idea of using them for my front stage. But I don't know/can't build anything right, and my installer is not good (yet) at fiberglassing. :-(

Good luck. you're in good hands mith M5 !

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here are the gross dimensions. The "pockets" are about 3" deep, but the speakers could protrude from the pocket.

front-stage-003.jpg

jonblack

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow, those are huge :) Without a protrusion not really big enough for a 6.5 sealed, but either sticking out or a different setup based on the questions above.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I'm only doing a 2-way front stage so using a 4 channel amplifier to power 2x tweet and 2x mids....

I like this idea. I have 7 year old Clarion amp in storage that I never pulled out of the box. I don't know the model number and I don't know how good it sounds. I will dig it out.

What crossover network do you plan to use with your setup?

Thanks

jonblack

Well, I have the HU in my signature(Pioneer P880PRS) but I need money so that will be leaving me soon as I post it up for sale...

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here are the gross dimensions. The "pockets" are about 3" deep, but the speakers could protrude from the pocket.

front-stage-003.jpg

jonblack

Should be great for a 4" of possibly a 5.25" midrange driver and tweeter ...

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Should be great for a 4" of possibly a 5.25" midrange driver and tweeter ...

5.25" is a terrible size for a midrange, woofer perhaps but not a mid. 3-4" is much better but in this case can then even be done without a tweeter to simplify things....potentially.

Definitely a 6.5" won't fit airspace wise without a protrusion.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't mind a protrusion. I am thinking of making removable "pods" that will fit in the pockets so I can remove them if I want to. Will probably look trashy, though. So I am still brainstorming.

Active sounds fine with me. Can you recommend a good external 3 way crossover? I have not looked at those at all buy I rememer them being 12 dB/octave through 24 dB/octave. I'm not sure what the general consensus is on slope these days. I guess I would want enough roll-off in the slope to conceal any "gaps" in the sound that might present themselves.

jonblack

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have a set of B&W bookshelf speakers that I was thinking about harvesting the drivers out of. I have been reading about on/off axis response and wonder if home speakers would not perform well for my application.

The mid driver looks like it is 4.5" with a coated paper cone and butyl rubber surround. The tweeter looks like a 1" silk/soft dome.

The cool thing about the B&W speakers is that I can put them in the car and give them a listen before I go through the work of making the pods. Of course the enclosure is large and designed especially for the speakers, but I will mostly be listening to the upper mid-range as well as the tweeters. I always enjoyed a smoother tweetwer. I remember when MB Quarts and JBL Titanium tweeters were popular. I never like them much, although they were loud and could cut like a knife. The minivan is a little on the plush side with the velour fabric, so maybe I will need a little more edge in the highs.

The B&W speakers sell for $100 on eBay so I could always sell them and put the proceeds towards my budget.

What are your thoughts on firing the drivers towards the windshield? Would that bring the sound stage up and out or would it just created a jumbled mess from the perspective of phase/reflection?

jonblack

Edited by jonblack
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now

  • Who's Online   0 Members, 0 Anonymous, 14 Guests (See full list)

    There are no registered users currently online

  • Recently Browsing

    No registered users viewing this page.