2 6.5" vs 1 8"

[An-i-no 86]

What are the advantages of running 1 8" mid versus running 2 6.5" mids up front?

I'm looking for clarity, loudness, and width (of the stage I guess? I don't really listen to much that requires great staging).

I can do the work to fit the 8 behind the panel but it will be up high. If I do 2 6.5's then one will be in the door and one in the kick.

One 6.5 isn't giving me the volume I need...well it is, but only when it's crossed at 120+hz which sucks. Doors will treated and sealed minimally (Not keeping the vehicle for long.)

Right now I'm not looking at any drivers in particular. I'd rather use passive sets (using only one tweet) because I don't have good enough x/o's. I have basic EQ and Time Alignment to work with though. Thanks in advance.

EDIT: Goals are to be loud(er) and have decent output to ~70hz. I have ~125w per driver/comp set to use. Don't want Pro Audio anything.

Edited August 28, 2012 by An-i-no

[ricksi30 923]

Less is more. Running a single 8 will be better, and it will be easier to achieve good sound.

[jonbearsmt 919]

rick maybe right,

but my thought about it would be cone area is king,

what is wrong with a pro>?

[ricksi30 923]

rick maybe right,

but my thought about it would be cone area is king,

what is wrong with a pro>?

It certainly depends on your goals. The thing about running two different speakers playing the same frequency is that you will have cancellation and timing issues.

[An-i-no 86]

rick maybe right,

but my thought about it would be cone area is king,

what is wrong with a pro>?

It certainly depends on your goals. The thing about running two different speakers playing the same frequency is that you will have cancellation and timing issues.

I'm about to go deep thought process so bear with me.

I don't want pro's because I don't like having a hole in my frequency response AND I don't like my subs to play above ~70hz, so I need something that's not wimpy in that area. I have two sets of (really f-ing cheap) Pioneer comps up front now and it doesn't sound...awful. They sound like poo poo below about 100hz but that's because the door is untreated and I have them on almost triple rated power.

With that said...I don't know if an 8" is for me. I hear all the time that two sets up front is not optimal but I have two sh!tty sets now and I kinda like it. Granted I've never heard a die hard SQ setup but I don't listen to SQ-y music so I don't think that affects me much. When I'm in the car I listen to rap, rap, hip-hop, and then some rap lol, (I listen to other things at home on my Grado's though) so all I'm looking for is loudness and warmth. All the sets I've had so far have been bright and shrill and I'm trying to get away from that.

Also...like I said already I do have active-capable crossovers on my amps BUT I don't want to run back and forth to adjust the xo frequency (and have to guess at it). 8" comp sets are a bitch to find, and most 8"s that aren't PA are midBASSes rather than the typical double duty car audio mid.

I know I sound biased as hell and it may seem like I'm set on two sets of 6.5's up front and I apologize. I appreciate everyone's time.

[lithium 358]

rick maybe right,

but my thought about it would be cone area is king,

what is wrong with a pro>?

It certainly depends on your goals. The thing about running two different speakers playing the same frequency is that you will have cancellation and timing issues.

I'm about to go deep thought process so bear with me.

I don't want pro's because I don't like having a hole in my frequency response AND I don't like my subs to play above ~70hz, so I need something that's not wimpy in that area. I have two sets of (really f-ing cheap) Pioneer comps up front now and it doesn't sound...awful. They sound like poo poo below about 100hz but that's because the door is untreated and I have them on almost triple rated power.

why dont you like your subs playing above 70? no way will a 6.5 keep up with a loud substage at 70hz. Maybe an 8 could, idk. You would have to go active to run them, btw.

With that said...I don't know if an 8" is for me. I hear all the time that two sets up front is not optimal but I have two sh!tty sets now and I kinda like it. Granted I've never heard a die hard SQ setup but I don't listen to SQ-y music so I don't think that affects me much. When I'm in the car I listen to rap, rap, hip-hop, and then some rap lol, (I listen to other things at home on my Grado's though) so all I'm looking for is loudness and warmth. All the sets I've had so far have been bright and shrill and I'm trying to get away from that.

so you looking for loud and speakers that aren't shit. nothing to do with sq.

Also...like I said already I do have active-capable crossovers on my amps BUT I don't want to run back and forth to adjust the xo frequency (and have to guess at it). 8" comp sets are a bitch to find, and most 8"s that aren't PA are midBASSes rather than the typical double duty car audio mid.

just crossovers on the amps is not enough to run active properly. i would look into headunits if your going that route.

I know I sound biased as hell and it may seem like I'm set on two sets of 6.5's up front and I apologize. I appreciate everyone's time.

so your going with a bad idea because you think it will sounds good? compared to what?

running two sets of comps is objectively a bad idea.

there are better ways to approach this problem then blindly throwing more speakes at it..

why make this tread at all? the information your looking for is already on this site, just a simple search away.

[///M5 2,833]

Can't match an 8 with a tweeter.

[lithium 358]

What are the advantages of running 1 8" mid versus running 2 6.5" mids up front?

I'm looking for clarity, loudness, and width (of the stage I guess? I don't really listen to much that requires great staging).

your listening to rap, why would width come into play? synthetic bass notes and a dude talking..

I can do the work to fit the 8 behind the panel but it will be up high. If I do 2 6.5's then one will be in the door and one in the kick.

as long as the baffle for the 8 is study and hte door is treated well then dont worry about it.

as for 6.5 in the door and another in the kick, bad idea!!! maybe if they were both in side by side in the doors and restricted to just midbass.

wiki constructive and destructive interference.

One 6.5 isn't giving me the volume I need...well it is, but only when it's crossed at 120+hz which sucks. Doors will treated and sealed minimally (Not keeping the vehicle for long.)

Right now I'm not looking at any drivers in particular. I'd rather use passive sets (using only one tweet) because I don't have good enough x/o's. I have basic EQ and Time Alignment to work with though. Thanks in advance.

EDIT: Goals are to be loud(er) and have decent output to ~70hz. I have ~125w per driver/comp set to use. Don't want Pro Audio anything.

why not raise the subwoofer up to fill in the gap?

nothing wrong with pro audio. maybe your confused with this shit car audio companies are trying to pass off?

[An-i-no 86]

why dont you like your subs playing above 70? no way will a 6.5 keep up with a loud substage at 70hz. Maybe an 8 could, idk. You would have to go active to run them, btw.

I hate the way it sounds. I'll be honest, I don't expect 75hz from my mids to be just as loud as 65hz from my subs, but I DO want to be able to tell that there's music there at all. Right now the only reason I know there's material there is because I know the songs very well.

so you looking for loud and speakers that aren't shit. nothing to do with sq.

Absolutely. Let's get away from that term. It's definitely not for me.

just crossovers on the amps is not enough to run active properly. i would look into headunits if your going that route.

I agree completely, that's why I'm against it.

so your going with a bad idea because you think it will sounds good? compared to what?

running two sets of comps is objectively a bad idea.

I'm considering going with the idea because I already have (positive) experience with it, it will work with the equipment I already own, and I think it will give me what I'm looking for without requiring a major system redesign.

there are better ways to approach this problem then blindly throwing more speakes at it..

why make this tread at all? the information your looking for is already on this site, just a simple search away.

Where? I saw 3-way SQ oriented active setups which is not what I'm trying to do, I saw PA mids+supertweeter setups which is also not what I'm after, and I saw 2-way SQ oriented setups which...you guessed it. Oh and of course there were "fill the door panel up with mids" which is DEFINITELY not what I'm after and a million simple $200 passive set + deadener installs. I drew ideas from them yes, but I don't see where anyone did what I'm trying to do and the pros and cons of it.

Actually I have on youtube but I kinda disregard those reviews.

Can't match an 8 with a tweeter.

I believe you. I don't want to try.

your listening to rap, why would width come into play? synthetic bass notes and a dude talking..

Well I want the music to have a sort of space or...even-ness to it. When I'm listening to music it all blends very well. I also don't think we're thinking of the same type of music but that's ok lol

as long as the baffle for the 8 is study and hte door is treated well then dont worry about it.

as for 6.5 in the door and another in the kick, bad idea!!! maybe if they were both in side by side in the doors and restricted to just midbass.

wiki constructive and destructive interference.

I don't really want to cut holes in my door so...yeah. I know I can fit the 8 back there though. I understand how interference works (taking college level physics as we speak) and I understand that on paper it's a terrible idea.

why not raise the subwoofer up to fill in the gap?

nothing wrong with pro audio. maybe your confused with this shit car audio companies are trying to pass off?

Don't like it. They simply don't play as clean as I would like into the 100's. And as far as PA stuff...

Products like say...the Selenium 6w4p scare me, becasue it's known to have a harsh sound. Then you take something like the Eminence Alpha 6A which is supposed to sound pretty good, but it's frequency response is only 85hz on the bottom end. That scares me as well. There are other products that post extremely broad frequency responses (like 60-8000hz) but I know that's BS. With PA stuff you trade response for volume and that's not a sacrifice I'm willing to make...I think.

[///M5 2,833]

I wouldn't buy either of the two pro audio mids you listed either. Those are very high efficiency narrow band drivers, terrible for anything less than a three way and usually then have no benefit. We can blame the state of FL for misrepresenting their strength and saying that they "sound good".

I stressed the one concern earlier of matching an 8 with a tweet. The other is using an amp for crossovers. If it's a Zapco Ref or Kicker SX with a digital processor then fine, but ones with little dials, no t/a, no adjustable slope and such then it's an idea that will net you an active system that sounds way worse than a passive.

Oh, and yes I own a few PA drivers and even for 12v applications.

[///M5 2,833]

And the recommendation above to turn the sub up (the LP) so that it plays more midbass is a great one. It pulls your stage back, but at the gain of having your most effective driver playing the frequencies that are hardest to play. Everything in a car is a compromise and this one seems to fit REALLY well within your stated goals.

[An-i-no 86]

For reference....these are the types of songs I judge my system by. I don't expect bass-heavy rap songs to blow my mind with detail and clarity lol. This is what I mean when I say Hip-hop

Edited August 28, 2012 by An-i-no

[An-i-no 86]

I wouldn't buy either of the two pro audio mids you listed either. Those are very high efficiency narrow band drivers, terrible for anything less than a three way and usually then have no benefit. We can blame the state of FL for misrepresenting their strength and saying that they "sound good".

I stressed the one concern earlier of matching an 8 with a tweet. The other is using an amp for crossovers. If it's a Zapco Ref or Kicker SX with a digital processor then fine, but ones with little dials, no t/a, no adjustable slope and such then it's an idea that will net you an active system that sounds way worse than a passive.

Oh, and yes I own a few PA drivers and even for 12v applications.

What PA mids would (or do) you use? And I know I lack the processing, that's why I'm shying away from an active setup. Processors are $$$$$ and active capable H/U's that work well with my iPod (that aren't named DEH-80PRS) are hard to find.

And the recommendation above to turn the sub up (the LP) so that it plays more midbass is a great one. It pulls your stage back, but at the gain of having your most effective driver playing the frequencies that are hardest to play. Everything in a car is a compromise and this one seems to fit REALLY well within your stated goals.

Eh...my subs don't play bass guitars very well. I wish Ascendant Audio was still making their Carbon mids...

[lithium 358]

i'll beat sean to this. minidsp!

http://obiaudio.com/...cy_chart_lg.gif - frequency range for some instruments

you can see from here where your problem area is. which you already know, midbass.

Edited August 29, 2012 by lithium

[///M5 2,833]

What PA mids would (or do) you use? And I know I lack the processing, that's why I'm shying away from an active setup. Processors are $$$$$ and active capable H/U's that work well with my iPod (that aren't named DEH-80PRS) are hard to find.

What I use would depend on installation location, goals, and compromises. For your situation I wouldn't.

Eh...my subs don't play bass guitars very well. I wish Ascendant Audio was still making their Carbon mids...

That'd be easier to fix....and I don't mean by using the Carbon mids.

[An-i-no 86]

What PA mids would (or do) you use? And I know I lack the processing, that's why I'm shying away from an active setup. Processors are $$$$$ and active capable H/U's that work well with my iPod (that aren't named DEH-80PRS) are hard to find.

What I use would depend on installation location, goals, and compromises. For your situation I wouldn't.

Eh...my subs don't play bass guitars very well. I wish Ascendant Audio was still making their Carbon mids...

That'd be easier to fix....and I don't mean by using the Carbon mids.

I'm a little lost here. Besides raising the LPF on my subs, what can I do as far as driver selection?

[lithium 358]

raise the lpf until the subwoofers remove the gap in freq. response. this might fix your problem right now.

btw, use your ears to set the filters, not the label on the amp.

if it doesn't sound good then come back and talk about new speakers.