Need your input on frames/subwoofers...

[Quentin Jarrell 671]

...after all you are the ones who will be buying them. These frames will be used for subwoofers with an xmax of 30mm or larger and will handle massive motors. One of the motors samples I have coming is pushing 100lbs. They will be Osd (oversized sd) to allow for massive xmax and retain sd. After all what's the point if high excursion 12 if you have the sd of an 8. The below sketches are of what the frames might look like (have to do a few mods for added features.

This frame has and OD of 12.5 inches and will allow a surround of 2.75 inches wide and still keep the same amount of sd as typical cones being used on current 12 spoked bakets. It has enough clearance for 90mm of one way xmax plus another 60% of clearance between xmax and xmech to assure no bottoming out. Its spider landing is large enough to handle a 11.25 inch spider.

What I need from you are ideas you have always wanted on a sub but no one offers. For example these frames will use 1/0 wire connectors (with adaptors for smaller wire) and will have connectors for the option of a thermocouple built into motors to monitor coil temperature while in operation.

[kirill007 52]

Why would someone need 1/0 wire connector for subwoofers?

How can the thermocouple benefit the user?

[loudmp5 1]

looks like it could be a beast but with the overly huge 1/0 connectors and thermocouple it is prob going to be very pricey..

[OuTLaWeD 110]

IMO 1/0 is really excessive and there isn't a coil out there that can handle even half of that of power the 1/0 is capable of. I would think 4awg at most would be sufficient that way a guy could run 8awg for wiring a pair of subs together. I do like the basket design though and it sounds great. do you have any drawings of the full assembly?

[Quentin Jarrell 671]

Why would someone need 1/0 wire connector for subwoofers?

How can the thermocouple benefit the user?

Basic math using ohms law. current = square root of watts/ohms so for 10,000 watts at one ohm you're looking at 100 amps. There are competitiors running 10's of thousands of watts. The maximum AWG current loads can be googled for different wire sizes.

A thermocouple can be helpfull for people running more than recommended power, i.e. competitors. Heat causes the glues on coils to loosen causing the magnet wire to unwind. If you know the temp of the coil then you will know if it is safely handling the power being put to it.

[Quentin Jarrell 671]

looks like it could be a beast but with the overly huge 1/0 connectors and thermocouple it is prob going to be very pricey..

Not at all it's only a few hundred bucks to tool connectors. And thermocouples are extreamely cheap to manufacture, only a few bucks.

[Quentin Jarrell 671]

IMO 1/0 is really excessive and there isn't a coil out there that can handle even half of that of power the 1/0 is capable of. I would think 4awg at most would be sufficient that way a guy could run 8awg for wiring a pair of subs together. I do like the basket design though and it sounds great. do you have any drawings of the full assembly?

One coil I've got coming from Precision Econowind is and 8 layer aluminum coil with 100mm long winding width. Although its the largest coil they have built for a sub they estimate it'll handle well over 100,000 watt test tone burst.

It is excessive for 99.9999 of use but I'd rather have the option there since time and money has to spent in tooling a custom connector to fit the frame anyway. It'll have adaptors like distrobution blocks do to allow the use of smaller wire.

I am using FINEcone (fea program from LoudSoft) to design the soft parts to make sure they will be able to handle the xmax correctly. Once I have the soft parts made then we will do a rapid prototype of the frames to ensure no modifications will be needed.

Edited December 21, 2012 by Quentin Jarrell

[shizzzon 461]

Quentin is actually thinking ahead which is good.

It's not the point that people don't need the large wire size due to current, it's the point that people will use it to PREVENT VOLTAGE DROP.

With all the runs people do for power and ground.. yet no one thinks about multi runs for speaker wire. Here's your chance.

[codester 48]

These are gonna be beastly. What sizes are you going to offer? Just the standard12", 15" and 18 or any plans of even bigger?

[Quentin Jarrell 671]

These are gonna be beastly. What sizes are you going to offer? Just the standard12", 15" and 18 or any plans of even bigger?

standard OD sizes, but remember they are oversized cones so on the lower xmax sub's 30-35mm excursion you are looking at roughly 25% more cone area compared to conventional set-ups. If I eventually get into anything over 18" they will be oval shaped to stay under the window line of vehicles.

[shizzzon 461]

quick question. IF you ever do go oval shaped, how do you cut an oval with a router?

Do you set 2 center points vs 1?

[Quentin Jarrell 671]

quick question. IF you ever do go oval shaped, how do you cut an oval with a router?

Do you set 2 center points vs 1?

simple to do really however, a sub that size would be massive in weight. You need a ton of motor force to control a sub with a moving mass of 4-5 pounds moving 3 inches one way 50 times a second. So, packaging would be excessive as well, including a wooden baffle that the sub would be attached to. similar to a JL w7's packaging. So you'd just use that as a templete.

[shizzzon 461]

oh ok, that's fine then.

But then my next question is.. how was the template made?

Is it basically done by freehand?

[kirill007 52]

Why would someone need 1/0 wire connector for subwoofers?

How can the thermocouple benefit the user?

Basic math using ohms law. current = square root of watts/ohms so for 10,000 watts at one ohm you're looking at 100 amps. There are competitiors running 10's of thousands of watts. The maximum AWG current loads can be googled for different wire sizes.

A thermocouple can be helpfull for people running more than recommended power, i.e. competitors. Heat causes the glues on coils to loosen causing the magnet wire to unwind. If you know the temp of the coil then you will know if it is safely handling the power being put to it.

But isn't 0 guage wire a little overkill? Just like the guy above me told 4 guage will be more then enough. If you have a dual coil sub with 2 connectors you usually have 2 8guage wires(or in your case 2 0guage wires), so that's about the same as 1 4guage. I like the idea, i just think it's just useless, because a wire can handle a lot more then it's rating for only a small amount of time.

Does the thermocouple react fast enough in changes in temperature? (i mean if you want people to use it for SPL, it's usually a short 3s burst where temperature skyrockets, i think that change is only measureable quick enough with a IR-thermometer.)

Or is it for people who cross RMS rating on a daily basis and want to know how much power they can actually add before the subwoofer breaks? (not every coil is perfectly the same and i don't think it's usefull to add a few watts and not hear any difference.)

I just see it as a great gadget, but i don't see any use.

The subwoofer itself looks promising, nice thinking about the design and these type of features.

Edited December 21, 2012 by kirill007

[FI 4 eva 0]

im following this. is something that could be out by Christmas next year, or even Black Friday?!

[frogcase2002 393]

quick question. IF you ever do go oval shaped, how do you cut an oval with a router?

Do you set 2 center points vs 1?

jigsaw

[codester 48]

Are these gonna have a low fs? Are they being built as a pure SPL monster or would It be a awesome daily/ groundpounder sub if you tuned the box to around 30hz?

[shizzzon 461]

You never need high excursion for SPL oriented subs.

So these are the Beasts, the Ultimate in Low end reproduction. The Devil of Silence, The Conqueror of destruction, the Wrath of Single Digit frequencies, The Wave of Terror,

Basically, when you mount these, you will need to put a seatbelt around them because they will move.

[Quentin Jarrell 671]

Are these gonna have a low fs? Are they being built as a pure SPL monster or would It be a awesome daily/ groundpounder sub if you tuned the box to around 30hz?

I dont have plans for a pure spl sub, there just isn't a large enough market. However every MMAG motor will have the option of using a long coil to turn it into an over hung motor. For example I have a MMAG motor coming that when used as intended it's got a motor force factor of around 600. But with the use of the big 8 layer 100mm long winding it has a motor force factor over 3,000.

Fs should not be an indicator of how low the sub will play. Especially when looking at small signal t/s numbers, your typical big sub on the market with a foam suround that has a Fs of 35hertz will in fact have a Fs of mid to high 20's with in it's working range.