Trident 12'' sub (an on going design thread)

[Quentin Jarrell 671]

This will be the first sub I will be building using the frames that I will tooling. It's an ongoing project and I'll update it as it progresses. I'm calling it "Trident" due to the three top plates as shown in the below density pic.

What you are looking at is an assymetrical view of the motor with the pole being on the left and the outside of the magnets to the right. From top to bottom it goes.

1. top plate

2. magnet

3. top plate

4. magnet

5. frame (being the frame is sandwiched into the motor it acts as an effective radiator pulling heat from the gap)

6. top plate

7. magnet

8. bottom plate

In all the motor is 270mm wide and 210mm tall

This next pic is the B intensity inside the gaps that the coil travels through.

The gaps aren't perfect yet (i'm still tweaking them, rememer this is an ongoing project) but you can see the general idea. The coil sits center of the center gap or hump. As it leaves the center gap it loses BL from that gap and gains from the gap that it is entering so that over its entire stroke it's BL remains almost constant.

I plan on staying with a 3 inch 8 layer flat aluminum coil. I modeled some 4inch coils and there really wasn't much benefit beside I want to keep the spider as large as possible and the 3 inch coil should handle the power well for its intented use. The folowing are the projected specs for the sub.

12" sub

sd .0491 m^2

Re 1.75 (series)

Fo 34.8 hz

Qts .4901

Qes .5269

Qms 7 (estimated)

Vas 23.15 L

BL 14.98 T/M (current model has 16.4)

xmax 62.5mm one way @ 10% distortion (apprx. 70mm one way @ 70% BL

Rms 9.652

Mms 406 grams

Cms 68.38 uM/N

spl 91.07 @2.83 volts

Enclosure

2 cubic feet

Fb 30.43 hz

F3 26 hz

Pe Max 6670 watts

2.779 db ripple

[Impious 1,476]

That's a pretty damn serious motor you are designing there. Also very versatile, I could think of a couple fun things to do with it.

What diameter spider is that going to use to match the throw of the motor?

[onebadmonte 235]

Looks nutty, like JBL's Differential drive thingie, but turned up to eleven.

[Quentin Jarrell 671]

That's a pretty damn serious motor you are designing there. Also very versatile, I could think of a couple fun things to do with it.

What diameter spider is that going to use to match the throw of the motor?

The 12" frame I'm working on allows for a 11.25'" OD spider. All softparts are being designed with FineCONE.

Edited January 10, 2013 by Quentin Jarrell

[Quentin Jarrell 671]

Looks nutty, like JBL's Differential drive thingie, but turned up to eleven. :P/>

I've got a lot of interesting stuff on the way. This is going to be an exciting year for me.

[Sencheezy 689]

=)

My fancy has just been tickled.

[Sencheezy 689]

Any idea on weight?

[Quentin Jarrell 671]

Any idea on weight?

I haven't calculated it but if I had to guesstimate I'd say 110-120 lbs for the motor.

[Sencheezy 689]

So I'm assuming by the title of the thread, the 12" will be the first to come out, then the larger sizes will follow?

[Quentin Jarrell 671]

So I'm assuming by the title of the thread, the 12" will be the first to come out, then the larger sizes will follow?

12's are most popular so they will come first. Ill have around 50 grand in tooling in each size driver. Everything from the surround down to the screws that hold the motor to the basket is being designed from scratch specifically for each sized driver.

[Sencheezy 689]

That's insane Haha. Well, the greater good of the communication really appreciative the r&d you have placed and of course the investment as well. The biggest question, ETA for the 12", and the larger sizes. ~6-8 months?

[Sencheezy 689]

Community*

[Quentin Jarrell 671]

That's insane Haha. Well, the greater good of the communication really appreciative the r&d you have placed and of course the investment as well. The biggest question, ETA for the 12", and the larger sizes. ~6-8 months?

I'm hoping to have it ready by then end of the year. I've got a lot of stuff brewing. It just depends on how everything falls into place.

[bassahaulic 155]

Coil size? 4"?

[Quentin Jarrell 671]

Coil size? 4"?

No, the weight of a 4 inch coil outweighs its advantages. You need a certain amount of motor force to move the moving mass at different alignments. And there just isn't enough "L" increase to compensate for the weight increase.

[shizzzon 461]

i'm not tech savvy when it comes to sub design but i have a question.

Can you elaborate on somethings so i know what i'm reading vs what i heard from you in the past syncs up with my mind, hehe.

Xmax, 62mm @10% and 70mm at 70% BL.

Projected xmax is 75mm. Is this still a goal or not possible?

PE max- over 6krms. What does that mean exactly? There must be a time frame for that measurement.

Is it a burst of that power for a second or a near constant value for a certain amount of time?

Cooling- well.. hehe, with 75 motors on this thing, is it's cooling ability going to be better than most to all things on the market or is it not all that necessary to be concerned about it?

And BL- ~15 T/M

When I understood that this beast would have more motor force than anything i've ever seen before, i was under impression the BL would be ungodly high? Why is it not?

And lastly.. SPL- 91db @2.83v

Now, i know many high powered subs do not have this published at all but from what you may know, is this value greater than other high powered speakers they tested?

I know the SPL graph is a peak reading of efficiency. What did the graph look like for this design (just a modeling of it if it's all you have) compared to others you may have seen?

[Quentin Jarrell 671]

maximal nominal electrical input power "PEmax" which is defined as the power delivered by a low impedance source providing the effective voltage urms into a resistor having the same value as the voice coil resistance.

In other words maximum power not accounting for the driver's impedance changes. This power rating is for that enclosure only. It just gives me a rough idea how large I need to make the coil.

[Quentin Jarrell 671]

Xmax is 82% BL or 10% harmonic distortion caused by the motor. The 70% BL is an estimate. Il know exactly when it's klippeled.

I'm sure you'll drive it past 70% so you'll get the extra 5mm out of 70mm one way your looking for.

[Quentin Jarrell 671]

The large BL you are thinking about is a different driver that is coming along with the Ethos order. It has a Motor force factor of nearly 3,000 (don't remember the exact number)

You only need a certain amount of motor force to drive a particular moving mass. That figure is enough for the moving mass for this driver. It's basically the same as other higher end drivers with the same amount of moving mass but this driver has it spread over nearly 150mm versus only 20 or 30mm.

To get this much xmax on a typical overhung motor would be physically impossible due to the massive amount coil mass it would take. And an underhung motor would not work either bc you would not be able to saturate a top plate thick enough to achieve linear BL.

[shizzzon 461]

Oh.. so you are creating 3 different driver lines?

This one, the beast one i was referring to and the ~$300 line just under 2krms line? i think that's the mmag?

So, if there are three lines, then what's the goal differences between the Trident and the "beast" version i was referring to?

I wasn't aware you were designing two lines capable of being slapped in the back of the head using a wall at the B pillar.

[Quentin Jarrell 671]

I have a ton of motors I'm getting samples for. A complete line up for each brand. DSS, which is direct only, will be a bargin banging on a budget brand using oem frames, softparts, and the same size motor for each size driver in their corresponding lines which will be based on xmax.

The pinnacle line will start off with oem frames, ect. But will grow into Osd tabbed frames, custom soft parts, faraday rings, ect.

Both brands will be targeted to excel in the lower octaves. The market is turning from the old school driver with high 30's f3 and letting cabin gain compensate for output, to drivers with very low f3's to get more of the "LOWS" emphasized. And I'll through in an unnecessary driver for marketing like the MMAG with a motor force factor of 3,000 or the Trident which will more than likely weigh 150 pounds.

Below is another line which will be more useful to the everyday joe. It uses and 8 layer copper coil, 30mm pole vent, and massive amounts of chamfering to eliminate mechanical compression. Also just like this model all MMAG sub used for daily applications will have copper faraday rings throughout the entire stroke of the coil, all the way from the frame down to the back plate. They are shown in the below density model.

Re 2.06 (series)

SD .0491 m

Fo 32.82

Qts .4686

Qes .5022

Qms 7 (estimated)

Vas 23.01 L

BL 17.19 T/M

xmax 22.5 mm @ 10% THD (apprx. 30mm @ 70% BL)

RMS 10.29

MMS 346.1 g

Cms 68 uM/N

spl 89.8 @ 2.83V

PORTED ENCLOSURE

1.5 cubic feet

Fb 29.6 hertz

F3 26 hertz

Pemax 1072 watts

ripple 0 DB

[Sencheezy 689]

Damn, so that means just more time to wait..

[Quentin Jarrell 671]

Damn, so that means just more time to wait..

That means you get a little taste first, let you get your feet wet, before you get your hands on full awsomeness.

[Sencheezy 689]

Damn, so that means just more time to wait..

That means you get a little taste first, let you get your feet wet, before you get your hands on full awsomeness.

But from what you're saying, it'll be till the end of this year before this beast comes out, and its just January, THEN, that means the 120pound monster prob won't be out till 2017

[Quentin Jarrell 671]

Damn, so that means just more time to wait..

That means you get a little taste first, let you get your feet wet, before you get your hands on full awsomeness.

But from what you're saying, it'll be till the end of this year before this beast comes out, and its just January, THEN, that means the 120pound monster prob won't be out till 2017

The beast, lets dub it "Magnetar" due to the retarded amount of motor force, could be here in roughly 5 months. I have a sample of it coming with the Ethos order. Then another 2 1/2 to 3 months for production. As long as parts pricing holds steady it will be in the neighborhood of 500-550.