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Mark LaFountain

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I've overcome almost every single issue other than me wanting to find a way to heat the floor of a large hearth style oven.  I am also absolutely sure that you get better results I  a large mass oven than anything else. Because its art. You move it while it cooks in an active process.  This allows you to correct for all other issues on the fly. Its art too and you get to be a part of it.  Large mass ovens are also way more stable in heat. Even if you have great electronics, a ton of radiant energy is going to overcome whatever you think your all about in this life.  I didnt get it before but nothing produced a more stable tool for heating.  I could also easily add in a hearth and my wok burner and a flattop if I'm building a structure already.  I've been thinking about rocket stove options for heating it all. Building a semi outdoor kitchen behind my garage sounds pretty sweet. 

 

I'm fine with the entire investment, but I feel that a smaller, controlled electric option will allow me to exparament and reproduce things over and over.  Something like that rofco with steam blasted in it would really let me scratch that engineering itch. Absolute repetitive results. 

 

 

 

 

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I'm sorry to hear that Mike. If you need an ear, or if I can somehow help, let me know. I haven't been in your shoes, but I've learned a lot from family going through similar things.

 

J

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On 6/23/2020 at 10:51 PM, dem beats said:

This is electric.  If any of you know how I could duplicate an electrical control unit that would come close I'll indulge it.  This would be the cheapest and most controlled idea. I would want to add steam, but you get the point. 

 

If you guys know how I could even just heat the floor consistently I would be into it. 

 

 

PID.  There are millions of them.  Need to use it to fire a relay, but fundamentally this is how grill controllers & espresso machines work. https://www.googleadservices.com/pagead/aclk?sa=L&ai=DChcSEwjc1e_z_5zqAhVO8MAKHWfNAk4YABADGgJpbQ&ohost=www.google.com&cid=CAESQOD2qovg6-ndYTu6Uy0aYL1Vgqf14Y32_pY_t3w0ZIQv3YDKvR7DJSAaQbE1QwyOAS2OIRvPMMMjmyjOJGH5m60&sig=AOD64_0rentA24na3gQZtFFJ0A7tzitnMQ&ctype=5&q=&ved=2ahUKEwjI_ebz_5zqAhXTGM0KHdjeBCcQ9aACegQIDhA0&adurl=

 

*note, first hit.  Didn't even hardly look at the link.  Don't buy that one...

 

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On 6/23/2020 at 11:01 PM, dem beats said:

Alternatively I'm toying with using a rocket oven, or a rocket stove heated floor and just wood fire the main chamber. 

 

I feel like I would be much much happier if I could constantly get more heat into stone floor without downtime to reheat the floor.  Spreading coals or blasting with gas fire on the floor between batches.  

 

It's either I go for more control or just make it huge as fuck and just let mass do it's job. 

I would like wood or gas fired.  That way I can be lazy or build a fire.  Bet the fire wouldn't get built that often...

Btw, above 600F or somewhere in there the combustion temps take pretty much all flavor away from wood.  No real downside other than placebo.

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On 6/23/2020 at 11:43 PM, dem beats said:

I've overcome almost every single issue other than me wanting to find a way to heat the floor of a large hearth style oven.  I am also absolutely sure that you get better results I  a large mass oven than anything else. Because its art. You move it while it cooks in an active process.  This allows you to correct for all other issues on the fly. Its art too and you get to be a part of it.  Large mass ovens are also way more stable in heat. Even if you have great electronics, a ton of radiant energy is going to overcome whatever you think your all about in this life.  I didnt get it before but nothing produced a more stable tool for heating.  I could also easily add in a hearth and my wok burner and a flattop if I'm building a structure already.  I've been thinking about rocket stove options for heating it all. Building a semi outdoor kitchen behind my garage sounds pretty sweet. 

 

I'm fine with the entire investment, but I feel that a smaller, controlled electric option will allow me to exparament and reproduce things over and over.  Something like that rofco with steam blasted in it would really let me scratch that engineering itch. Absolute repetitive results. 

 

 

 

 

Electric or gas can be controlled by the PID.  Need the gas to be an on/off type of sorts though.  I could see a burner underneath fire stone and some on the sides allowing you to control the heat of a couple zones.  Embedding thermocouples that can take the heat and measure the surface temp instead of air of course  is the trick on the floor.

As for size, big enough for one pizza or 2 large boules is enough for me.  More could be fine, but I can easily batch cook if something doesn't get cold soaked from use.

 

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2 hours ago, ///M5 said:

Electric or gas can be controlled by the PID.  Need the gas to be an on/off type of sorts though.  I could see a burner underneath fire stone and some on the sides allowing you to control the heat of a couple zones.  Embedding thermocouples that can take the heat and measure the surface temp instead of air of course  is the trick on the floor.

As for size, big enough for one pizza or 2 large boules is enough for me.  More could be fine, but I can easily batch cook if something doesn't get cold soaked from use.

 

I would use a modulating gas valve.  On/off would be too inconsistent.  I'm with you on the embedded thermocouple though.  Just make sure it's as tight as can be.  Even a small air pocket is an insulator and can easily provide an error factor of 10 degrees.

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Modulating yes.  I meant needs some gas control valve.  On off would be stupid.  I briefly tried to look to see how Wolf monitors temperature on their griddle and then fires the infrared gas burner to adjust it.  Ran out of time, but am interested in seeing Matt move this forward.

 

Btw, my 11 year old asked for permission to build a pizza oven outside just two days ago.  Told him he makes a plan he can.  Obviously I would help with the plan, but would rather piggyback on Matt's efforts.

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If you guys really want commercial parts to build a pizza oven, let me know. I'll see what I can do through the family business to help.

J

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4 hours ago, ///M5 said:

Modulating yes.  I meant needs some gas control valve.  On off would be stupid.  I briefly tried to look to see how Wolf monitors temperature on their griddle and then fires the infrared gas burner to adjust it.  Ran out of time, but am interested in seeing Matt move this forward.

 

Btw, my 11 year old asked for permission to build a pizza oven outside just two days ago.  Told him he makes a plan he can.  Obviously I would help with the plan, but would rather piggyback on Matt's efforts.

Dream come true right there buddy!

 

A lot of the comercial wood fired kitchens thermocouple the floor and the doom and maybe the air?  I'll post a video of s

One that I dont want you will see how it works in a big oven.  I dont want to fire for 2 days, so I figured smaller with some way to heat the floor like in those other 2oven videos would be ideal. Wood for the roof, small wood in the oven for multiple pizzas but the floor would need reheating. 

Right now with my garbage oven I was trying to crank out 8 loaves on baking days.......  I could could do a lot of good with a little bit more horsepower.

 

 

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3 hours ago, Godsmack said:

If you guys really want commercial parts to build a pizza oven, let me know. I'll see what I can do through the family business to help.

J

The random awesomeness of this place always amazes me. 

Just because I wanted some subwoofers and the old forum I was on died. 

 

Glad I stumbled into this squad. 

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Nice that your kid wants to design and build something.

My oldest asked his mom if we could get a boat.  So, guess who just got his operators card/certificate and bought a boat?  Yep, should be able to pick it up next week.

This expense was NOT in my plans, yet, here we are.  Hopefully going to be a lot of fun summers ahead.

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Here is a "micro bakery ".  I think we can do better.

 

Lol

 

 

 

 

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Anyone use any of the micro amps on the market?  I'm looking for something to power some planar tweets.

 

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I had one of the NVX ones.  Worked great for 20mo or so then puked

 

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Posted (edited)

I've been digging deep.  The OG kings of bread, the Egyptians perfected bread making by using used grain that was used to make beer.

That fiber makes for super fuel in a bread setting. Your starter would go bonkers. Also adding in constant refresher of yeasts that only survive in super high hydration and malted sugary liquids would act more like fresh yeast but not comercial kind of active.  Nitrogen and more CO2 for sure. 

Anyway, they knew how to overcome all problems by individually packaging bread so that the cooking environment forced a perfect product assuming the ratios were close to right. The "dough" would be put into clay vessels before being fired. 

Makes sense that then they would break the clay on the spot and then have the product, or maybe the clay was also used in transport for the people buying it.  Then bring it back to "recycle" and keep you loyal to that bakery. 

No wonder bread is hard. Old time bakers had bespoke cooking vessels for every bake.  Also customers heat transfer as you pack coals all around at your discretion much like a Dutch oven would be  

Written recipes get real sketchy from before those days but the data is complete. 

I Need to master beer making.

:D

Edited by dem beats

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Boy, if you connect those dots you have a billion dollar near infrastructure level company idea...

Shift an entire industry to catch up with what you have going on and then advertise like jiffy lube or the shampoo advertising geniuses. 

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The Maker's Mark formula was actually decided by bread formula. The original distiller baked his family breads of a different grains. Naturally they preferred the bread with more wheat and a new legend was born.

 

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6 hours ago, MKader17 said:

The Maker's Mark formula was actually decided by bread formula. The original distiller baked his family breads of a different grains. Naturally they preferred the bread with more wheat and a new legend was born.

 

Yeah!  It's like there is something to these bacteria and yeast/fungi around us....

Sean sent me down a pickle path that lead me to a while bunch of fermented foods... it's all this same kind of critter. Likes salty acidic humid environment that gets a lot of agitation and thrives at pretty close to the mid 90s for temperature.  I try my very best to never connect those dots. 

 

 

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I am fermenting the crap out of everything I can.  Trying just a couple things at a time.  Had sauerkraut last night, my jalapenos have about 3-5 days left and then on to something else.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, ///M5 said:

I am fermenting the crap out of everything I can.  Trying just a couple things at a time.  Had sauerkraut last night, my jalapenos have about 3-5 days left and then on to something else.

I'm going to try raw tomato this week. 

If that works then I'm going to move into some fermented fiber. 

Edited by dem beats

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I just wish I was somewhere I could take advantage of all this stuff. 

 

The whole meat "shortage" drives me nuts.  If I was at even a medium to small pig/beef farmer I could get bigger than any international meat company in 5-10 years.  I suppose if your not in the industry it's easier to see the dots and how to connect them, but good lord I could rake in billions and clean up the industry and pull control back into the private sector.

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Animals are being slaughtered and thrown away.  Shortage...

 

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9 minutes ago, ///M5 said:

Animals are being slaughtered and thrown away.  Shortage...

 

That's my point. 

 

If I was at a place that had the levers to throw I could reroute that without the current problems that we have right now. There is an open market opportunity that's just not happening for some reason.  My guess is that there is no desire to go into agriculture if you have a high acumen for business or information sharing technology. 

 

The federal guidelines that keep us safe make it look like we have handcuffs.  You just have to open up a new marketplace. I would do 3-4 at the same time so that I could self compete and gain data on 2 different demographics along the vertical chain. The whole point of this grid of information is to leverage the existing supply chains.  

 

The farmers need some dorks in suits. 

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Well is seems new car buying is the craze here. I am booked until October doing vehicles! 

I can't even go out without being approached about my work. I must be doing something right. 

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So, I worked all weekend sweating my ass off.  It culminated today with some customers coming in from NJ and I had to train an entire family.  It was easy money, but painfully long and drawn out.  Literally outside in the blazing sun and humidity all day.  Get home and the house is hot.  Air is running, but the condenser is not on.  Go out and cut some weeds down around the unit.  Find the refrigerant line appears to have had something fall on it.  It's too damaged to try to repair, and the unit is 30+ years old anyways, so it's kinda pointless.  I started doing some shopping and HD has a split system I can buy, but the cheapest one is $2500, so I'm just going to get fucked here once I pay someone else to do it and buy a unit from them.  Fucked up day.

 

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