BTL VS ZCON VS MAYHEM

[SPL?? 34]

For this im going to compare only 18" woofers..

BTL N3 the king of SPL! This is the loudest subwoofer on the market that I'm aware of..

FS 51 - This thing doesn't go low! Shitty sound quality, but hey this thing is so loud, who cares? lol

Spl: 95.3dB 1W/1m super efficient

3000w RMS

BTL N2

FS 34

Spl: 94.0dB 1W/1m

2000w RMS

ZCON

FS 32

Spl: 94.9db 1W/1m

2250w RMS

MAYHEM

FS 33.7

Spl: 94.8dB 1W/1m

2500w RMS

Between the BTL N2, ZCON & MAYHEM..Based on the FS I would think these subs all sound about the same, they would all sound good.. they all are about the same efficiency (High Efficiency) so the important number here is the rms power. The Mayhem takes first place, The ZCON takes second place, and the BTL N3 takes 3rd place. I believe these subwoofers are currently the best woofers on the market, if I failed to mention any worthy subwoofers please list the specs.

The BTL N3 isn't similar to the other 3 subwoofers so I will not give it a placement in the contest.

DD9500 @ DEATH PENALTY wont even share their specs cause the new more modern subwoofers listed above blow them away??

Edited March 9, 2013 by SPL??

[Shogen 325]

not sure what the point of this is... but the SP4 should be mentioned for whatever this is... smh

[Jason Witt 65]

Hmmm... Okay

[SPL?? 34]

not sure what the point of this is... but the SP4 should be mentioned for whatever this is... smh

SP4 SQ sub

FS 24.7 This thing goes low. Deep bass!

Spl: 87.8dB 1W/1m

3000w RMS this woofer has lots of power but its not efficient so it wouldn't get nearly as loud as the other woofers listed above so.. I didn't list it as a part of the list. I would compare it to a evil, xxx and other subs like that.

Edited March 9, 2013 by SPL??

[Quentin Jarrell 671]

not sure what the point of this is... but the SP4 should be mentioned for whatever this is... smh

SP4 SQ sub

FS 24.7 This thing goes low. Deep bass!

Spl: 87.8dB 1W/1m

3000w RMS this woofer has lots of power but its not efficient so it wouldn't get nearly as loud as the other woofers listed above so.. I didn't list it as a part of the list. I would compare it to a evil, xxx and other subs like that.

I haven't a clue where you get all your information. But I would forget everything you think you know. Go back and read all of the mandatory noob threads. If you keep giving all of these ignorant questions and answers you are going to get much much more help around here.

[Shogen 325]

For this im going to compare only 18" woofers..

BTL N3 the king of SPL! This is the loudest subwoofer on the market that I'm aware of..

FS 51 - This thing doesn't go low! Shitty sound quality, but hey this thing is so loud, who cares? lol

Spl: 95.3dB 1W/1m super efficient

3000w RMS

BTL N2

FS 34

Spl: 94.0dB 1W/1m

2000w RMS

ZCON

FS 32

Spl: 94.9db 1W/1m

2250w RMS

MAYHEM

FS 33.7

Spl: 94.8dB 1W/1m

2500w RMS

Between the BTL N2, ZCON & MAYHEM..Based on the FS I would think these subs all sound about the same, they would all sound good.. they all are about the same efficiency (High Efficiency) so the important number here is the rms power. The Mayhem takes first place, The ZCON takes second place, and the BTL N3 takes 3rd place. I believe these subwoofers are currently the best woofers on the market, if I failed to mention any worthy subwoofers please list the specs.

The BTL N3 isn't similar to the other 3 subwoofers so I will not give it a placement in the contest.

DD9500 @ DEATH PENALTY wont even share their specs cause the new more modern subwoofers listed above blow them away??

 

 

not sure what the point of this is... but the SP4 should be mentioned for whatever this is... smh

SP4 SQ sub

FS 24.7 This thing goes low. Deep bass!

Spl: 87.8dB 1W/1m

3000w RMS this woofer has lots of power but its not efficient so it wouldn't get nearly as loud as the other woofers listed above so.. I didn't list it as a part of the list. I would compare it to a evil, xxx and other subs like that.

[Jason Witt 65]

 

[SPL?? 34]

This topic is/was 100% serious. If you don't agree with what I'm saying please explain why. Please use these specs when explaining why you dissagree.

Fs = resonance frequency of the driver. In free-air, the driver's impedance will peak at this frequency.

Pe = Thermal capacity of the driver, in Watts. If continuously driven above its rated Pe, the driver may prematurely burn out and fail.

Qes = Electrical Q of the driver at Fs. Qes is a measure of the driver's tendency to resonate at Fs, based on its electrical characteristics, e.g. magnet strength, magnetic circuit characteristics, etc.). The driver's overall resonance characteristics are usually dominated by Qes.

Qms = Mechanical Q of the driver at Fs. Qms is a measure of the driver's tendency to resonate at Fs, based on its mechanical characteristics, e.g. surround compliance, the compliance of the spider, weight of the cone, etc.

Qts = Total Q of the driver at Fs. Qts is a measure of the driver's tendency to resonate at Fs, based on its overall characteristics. Qts can be calculated using the equation:

Qts= Qms*Qes/(Qms+Qes))

Re = DC resistance of the driver's voice coil. Re is less than the driver's rated impedance (normally 4 or 8 ohms).

Sd = Effective surface area of the driver. Roughly equal to the area of the cone plus 1/3rd of the surround.

Xmag = [DUMAX] Excursion limit due to the magnetic limitations of the driver's motor. Xmag is defined as the displacement at which the BL product has fallen to 70% of its value at the cone's rest position.

Xmech = Maximum physical excursion capability of the driver. Exceeding Xmech normally results in damage to the driver.

Xsus = [DUMAX] Excursion limit due to the driver's suspension. Xsus is defined as the point at which the compliance of the suspension has decreased to 25% of the value at the cone's rest position.

Xmax = Linear (one-way) travel of the cone. Xmax is used to determine the maximum linear SPL capability of the driver, and can be defined in a number of ways. The DUMAX definition is objectively the best one, and it is defined as the shorter of the Xmag and Xsus values, in each direction of cone travel. This definition is more useful than the older definition of Xmax, which was solely dependent on the length of the voice-coil vs. the length of the gap.

Vas = Equivalent air compliance. The volume of air that has the same compliance ("springiness") as the driver's suspension. Because less air is more "springy" than more air, a large Vas represents a "loose" suspension

Vd = Peak displacement volume. Vd = Sd*Xmax

Edited March 9, 2013 by SPL??

[Jason Witt 65]

We can't take it serious if we do not know what you are getting at here.

[SPL?? 34]

We can't take it serious if we do not know what you are getting at here.

I opened this topic to compare the specs of the worlds best "SQL" woofers and see what woofer is the best in the "SQL" category. And to see if there are any subwoofers that are as good or better then the ones I listed that I'm not aware of. Also, I figured it would be a good read for people. Edited March 9, 2013 by SPL??

[Shogen 325]

We can't take it serious if we do not know what you are getting at here.

I opened this topic to compare the specs of the worlds best SQL woofers and see what woofer is the best in the SQL category.

 

 

honestly there is no best "SQL" since that is a very loose term .... also, the "best" is usually whatever fits your budget, goals, your install and restrictions..... sooooooo give us that info first

[Jason Witt 65]

Use of the term SQL is frowned upon. You either have an SQ driver, or an SPL driver. There is no such thing as SQL. This thread will probably be locked soon.

[SPL?? 34]

We can't take it serious if we do not know what you are getting at here.

I opened this topic to compare the specs of the worlds best "SQL" woofers and see what woofer is the best in the "SQL" category.

 

 

honestly there is no best ""SQL"" since that is a very loose term .... also, the "best" is usually whatever fits your budget, goals, your install and restrictions..... sooooooo give us that info first

I'm not here to buy car audio, I already own high end car audio.

[Shogen 325]

 

 

We can't take it serious if we do not know what you are getting at here.

I opened this topic to compare the specs of the worlds best SQL woofers and see what woofer is the best in the SQL category.

 

 

honestly there is no best "SQL" since that is a very loose term .... also, the "best" is usually whatever fits your budget, goals, your install and restrictions..... sooooooo give us that info first

I'm not here to buy car audio, I already own high end car audio.

 

a build log would be a good idea then? Show off your system and install.... we all love the pix.... :-) 

[SPL?? 34]

Ok, I'll add a build log :-) But please be open to my topic, I thought it was a good topic.

Edited March 9, 2013 by SPL??

[Shogen 325]

 

 

 

 

We can't take it serious if we do not know what you are getting at here.

I opened this topic to compare the specs of the worlds best SQL woofers and see what woofer is the best in the SQL category.

 

 

honestly there is no best "SQL" since that is a very loose term .... also, the "best" is usually whatever fits your budget, goals, your install and restrictions..... sooooooo give us that info first

I'm not here to buy car audio, I already own high end car audio.

 

a build log would be a good idea then? Show off your system and install.... we all love the pix.... :-) 

Ok, I'll add a build log :-) But please be open to my topic, I thought it was a good topic.

lol... I can't promise anything ... and you dismissed my one and only piece of input.... get the build log on here though.... we like sharing here

[SPL?? 34]

Sorry to dismiss your post, I'm sure you re a car audio guru. I just was going for louder subwoofers that still have good sq but I didn't make that clear in my topic.

Can you please tell me how make a build log?

[Shogen 325]

Sorry to dismiss your post, I'm sure you re a car audio guru. I just was going for louder subwoofers that still have good sq but I didn't make that clear in my topic.

Can you please tell me how make a build log?

 

no guru..... 

 

Create a "new thread" in this section  HERE  Post the equipment you're using..... vehicle it is installed in .... DEFINITELY add photos of your setup and vehicle if at all possible.... DONE!

[EPerez 236]

It isn't just those 2 pieces of information given by a company that determines the loudness or sound quality of it. It's honestly a combination of A LOT of things!!!!!!!

All of those t/s parameters are given for a reason. When designing boxes you use them to model a box a can get an idea of how it will perform. Also the box placement, port placement and port placement also heavily influence the output.

It's funny you post this because I am still unsure about all the t/s parameters. I was going to post a thread asking what they are and what to look for when looking at a sub. I have no idea what some of those means. I'm still learning and we all are learning. None of us here know everything lol

No system is the same. One crazy loud system in one car may sound like shit in another car. Box plays a very big part in the system. It can make the "best subs" in a shitty box sound horrible but a Walmart sub in an amazing box won't sound too bad and could even be overall better than the better sub in shifty box.

This hobby/sport/passion is all about trial and error. You won't know exactly how loud you will get. You have to go out and do it!! I mean you can get a estimate of how loud you will be, but never exact unless trying.

Too us your post is very ignorant and kind of funny to me because I've been there when I first started out. I give you props for not flipping out at the comments people posted but asking why it was wrong and continuingly trying to learn. Some people here post threads and don't give any info so we can't help them and they act like such an d bag when we tell them we need more info to help them. Please read the forum's newbie rules. It'll teach you how to make a correct thread.

Post a build log!!

[SPL?? 34]

It isn't just those 2 pieces of information given by a company that determines the loudness or sound quality of it. It's honestly a combination of A LOT of things!!!!!!!

All of those t/s parameters are given for a reason. When designing boxes you use them to model a box a can get an idea of how it will perform. Also the box placement, port placement and port placement also heavily influence the output.

It's funny you post this because I am still unsure about all the t/s parameters. I was going to post a thread asking what they are and what to look for when looking at a sub. I have no idea what some of those means. I'm still learning and we all are learning. None of us here know everything lol

No system is the same. One crazy loud system in one car may sound like shit in another car. Box plays a very big part in the system. It can make the "best subs" in a shitty box sound horrible but a Walmart sub in an amazing box won't sound too bad and could even be overall better than the better sub in shifty box.

This hobby/sport/passion is all about trial and error. You won't know exactly how loud you will get. You have to go out and do it!! I mean you can get a estimate of how loud you will be, but never exact unless trying.

Too us your post is very ignorant and kind of funny to me because I've been there when I first started out. I give you props for not flipping out at the comments people posted but asking why it was wrong and continuingly trying to learn. Some people here post threads and don't give any info so we can't help them and they act like such an d bag when we tell them we need more info to help them. Please read the forum's newbie rules. It'll teach you how to make a correct thread.

Post a build log!!

I gave your post a +^ I love everything you said excluding the very ignorant part. lol I agree with you there is many factors; you can get a lot of cabin gain from resonant frequency and the box freq can get you a lot louder or deeper.

I look at all of the specs of a subwoofer not just the ones I listed, the specs I listed are the ones I feel are the most important! I think the rest of the specs are much to advanced for most people who use and enjoy car audio, I didn't realize this forum was filled with advanced car audio people.

Edited March 9, 2013 by SPL??

[SPL?? 34]

For this im going to compare only 18" woofers..

BTL N3 the king of SPL! This is the loudest subwoofer on the market that I'm aware of..

FS 51 - This thing doesn't go low! Shitty sound quality, but hey this thing is so loud, who cares? lol

Spl: 95.3dB 1W/1m super efficient

3000w RMS

BTL N2

FS 34

Spl: 94.0dB 1W/1m

2000w RMS

ZCON

FS 32

Spl: 94.9db 1W/1m

2250w RMS

MAYHEM

FS 33.7

Spl: 94.8dB 1W/1m

2500w RMS

Between the BTL N2, ZCON & MAYHEM..Based on the FS I would think these subs all sound about the same, they would all sound good.. they all are about the same efficiency (High Efficiency) so the important number here is the rms power. The Mayhem takes first place, The ZCON takes second place, and the BTL N3 takes 3rd place. I believe these subwoofers are currently the best woofers on the market, if I failed to mention any worthy subwoofers please list the specs.

The BTL N3 isn't similar to the other 3 subwoofers so I will not give it a placement in the contest.

DD9500 @ DEATH PENALTY wont even share their specs cause the new more modern subwoofers listed above blow them away??

Third place is supposed to be the BTL N2 not the N3.. TYPO.. lol

*-Between the BTL N2, ZCON & MAYHEM..Based on the FS I would think these subs all sound about the same, they would all sound good.. they all are about the same efficiency (High Efficiency) so the important number here is the rms power. The Mayhem takes first place, The ZCON takes second place, and the BTL N2 takes 3rd place. I believe these subwoofers are currently the best woofers on the market, if I failed to mention any worthy subwoofers please list the specs.-*

Edited March 9, 2013 by SPL??

[EPerez 236]

If given only a fs of a subwoofer, I'm pretty sure you can't tell the sound of it. Kinda the same thing with the efficiency. Just because it has a higher efficiency doesn't mean it'll play louder. I hope someone will jump in here to explain that. That is what I think though.

There are many knowledgable people on this forum. Like I said before, if you make a well thought out thread and provide as much info as you can. These people will be more than happy to help.

[SPL?? 34]

If given only a fs of a subwoofer, I'm pretty sure you can't tell the sound of it. Kinda the same thing with the efficiency. Just because it has a higher efficiency doesn't mean it'll play louder. I hope someone will jump in here to explain that. That is what I think though.

There are many knowledgable people on this forum. Like I said before, if you make a well thought out thread and provide as much info as you can. These people will be more than happy to help.

Before cabin gain

90db@1w= 90db

90db@2w= 93db

90db@4w= 96db

90db@8w= 99db

90db@16w= 102db

90db@32w=105db

90db@64w= 108db

90db@128w= 111db

90db@256w= 114

90db@500w= 117

90db@1000w= 120

90db@2000w= 123

90db@4000w= 126

Each time you double your power you will gain approx 3db.

And each time you double the amount of subwoofers you will gain approx 3db.

And FS gives you a great idea of how the sub will preform low FS= deep punchy subwoofers and higher freq= louder and less punchy.

[SPL?? 34]

Large xmax is also an important factor cause it wil allow the woofer to move more air. This is the reason that SPL woofers normally have larger xmax then SQ woofers.

[NDMstang65 403]

Fs has absolutely no correlation at all what so ever to frequency response of the woofer..nor does it mean where the impedance will peak...that is a product of the environment in which the speaker is in and will change according to that environment and the elevation

 

It is simply a natural resonance of the assembly at sea level in an anechoic environment..

 

higher Fs does not mean you will have louder and less punchy...it's actually more punchy on the n3 because it has an excess of motorforce which dictates the 'transient response' or 'punch' that you are looking at.

 

lower Fs does not mean that it is punchier, actually it can be the total opposite..but it comes down to the soft parts assembly, overall motor strength etc.

 

you can learn way more about a sub given its Vas and Qts than anything..it will tell you WAY more than Fs will.

 

and you never always gain 3dB by doubling power and/or cone area...that's theory, not law.

 

you run into this jacked up thing called diminishing marginal returns that jacks that parade all up..

 

troll on