I need some input

[altoncustomtech 773]

Well it could be.  It could also be that they have no real idea on how to do it right, it's hard to say for sure.  I know a guy who took his vehicle with speakers, subs and amps that he bought from the internet and installed himself to a shop to get it "professionally tuned" by them.  They blew half the speakers and both subs and then told him it was complete junk and they could sell him stuff from their shop that "couldn't be blown" and was "1000x" better than the junk he had bought.

 

I'm quite certain they did it on purpose because he'd been in there many times before asking questions and not buying what they were trying to shove down his throat.  Then when he returned with a vehicle that didn't have an ounce of parts or equipment that came from their shop they decided to ruin it.

 

Another reason I'm quite certain they did it on purpose is because it sure wasn't the first time it's happened.  The worst part is they're still in business despite all the bad experiences people have had with the shop.  My point is, be damned careful who you let touch your stuff.  Especially since in almost all cases since they didn't install it they're not required to replace it when they tear it up.  There's also a good chance that if they were truly abusing it while adjusting the settings that they damaged it some at that point which left the remainder of it's life considerably shorter than it should have been.

[pmureika 31]

The subs and speakers are stupid. They only do what they are told to. So if they blew at a professional install shop!! I dont think they were to smart!

[altoncustomtech 773]

The subs and speakers are stupid. They only do what they are told to. So if they blew at a professional install shop!! I dont think they were to smart!

 

Smart isn't a word to use when discussing that shop.  There's not a snow ball's chance in hell I would or will ever recommend that place to anyone.  I've repaired more than enough of their fuckups to ever do so.

[pmureika 31]

The subs and speakers are stupid. They only do what they are told to. So if they blew at a professional install shop!! I dont think they were to smart!

 

Smart isn't a word to use when discussing that shop.  There's not a snow ball's chance in hell I would or will ever recommend that place to anyone.  I've repaired more than enough of their fuckups to ever do so.

Looking out to help you. Just to sell their stuff, which is how they make money. Which is sad that money comes into play not them helping the customer.

[Trent Hari 1]

Speaking of shops, that shop i mentioned in another post awhile back that sells pioneer tried to tell me that a pioneer competition sub was better than my SA-12. And they told me that it was a crappy sub because it sounded distorted, never mind it was in a box that was a fraction of its recommended volume at a like 45 hz tuning. Then they demoed that pioneer sub in the store,that was in an optimal enclosure,  and it was not as loud , and made the same da*m distortion as mine did when i turned it up (probably clipping).- They were blaming my sub for clipping distortion. haha They will bull crap me all day long to make me buy their sub.

And they tried to tell me their pioneer amps were better than my JL. - I Know that's a lie.

 

Add that on top of the fact they didn't even know what Sundown Audio was.

Edited May 19, 2013 by Trent Hari

[Trent Hari 1]

lol i just had a crazy thought - a "clipping filter" lol - after all these years, why hasn't someone invented an amp that cuts power to safe levels when it detects clipping? - they already have "clipping lights" just a thought

They can, and I believe they have some PA amps that can do that already. The problem is that in the car audio world no one would like them because it would never get loud enough.

If the amps were able to eliminate distortion by sensing it and automatically reducing the input signal to get the output wave back to a true sine wave (unclipped) then the customers would get uber pissed because no matter how much they turned things up it would only ever get as loud as the controlling circuitry on the amp would allow. I can pretty much assure you that wouldn't be as loud as their previous amp and then they would bad mouth the new amp without understanding it was only doing it's job.

Pretty much everyone listens to their music driven right up to (and many times well into) audible distortion levels. Even more unrealized by most people is that when the dynamic peaks are at play the hardest it's distorting every time because they've already run the output level up to it's limit and anything above that becomes distortion. Lastly there's plenty of music out there that has distortion of different kinds recorded on purpose. Any controlling circuitry that could sense and eliminate distortion/clipping by throttling the levels in the amp would really just not go over as well as you think.

Great post :-)

Why would the power cut be so dramatic? Do most amps begin distorting before their circuitry is maxed out?

On a side note, I am actually surprised my Alpine subwoofer lasted as long as it did. Now that i know more. I was in the mood for bass once so I maxed out the sub gain on the head unit and amplifier and turned it up until just below when the distortion was just becoming audible. I'm guessing when clipping becomes audible in a sub, its pretty severe.

Edited May 20, 2013 by Trent Hari

[///M5 2,833]

 

 

I know believe me. I have started a few threads and been frustrated as hell feeling like I was getting no useful info. Then I realized that all of the info I was being given was geared toward getting me to think and spend time listening to figure out what I was missing or wanting, and really listen to how adjustments affect sound (quality, output etc.)

 

Everything you do has a huge effect on output from the way your box is facing to something as simple as rolling down your windows. It just takes time to figure out your car, your equipment, and your install. 

Yeah but it sucks when i spell my whole setup out,with pics, and they can't even tell me the color of the sky lol. 

Just to be Philosophical  -

Maybe we don't know what we want , because we don't know what we can get with what we have. Or 

Maybe we don't know what were missing, because we have never heard a properly tuned SQ setup. 

.

.

.

My brain just melted from all the meaning that was in those two sentences. ;P 

But why improve something that sounds perfect?

 

You are being difficult because you think there is one solitary answer to any question.  This is FAR from the truth.  The trick is to use detail to describe the question to narrow down the answer.  If you never narrow it down the answer you could get won't apply to you making it useless & a waste of money.

Well i finally found out why i was not satisfied with my sound quality. The decks HPF was set to 100 hz but the subwoofer crossover was at 80 hz , but the speaker amp was set at 75 hz hpf. I did not know what i was missing, until i heard it sound correct. I couldn't even describe why i was not satisfied, I just knew something wasn't there that should have been. That was a kinda impossible situation for me and you i know. But on the plus side, i'm all good now

 

We seem to have trouble communicating ///M5

I notice that member ///M5 uses the word 'YOU" alot. anyone who has gone through  a psychology class can tell you that 'YOU" statements put the person being talked to in a defensive position, and they are less likely to see your point of view. "I" statements usually come across as more diplomatic and streamline communication. Heres a link to describe what i am talking about. http://www.humanpotentialcenter.org/Articles/IStatements.html

I type YOU because unlike some other sites that are only interested in selling their wares, we want to actually help.  Considering audio is subjective that means that can only be done with information from YOU.  Get it?

 

The communication problem is all you.  And now get ready to be defensive.  To me it sounds like your whole life has been a silver platter and you want to be spoon fed.  I'll give you a hint.  In audio if you won't think for yourself and try you'll never get where you want to go.

[///M5 2,833]

I have a good point - if he's giving advice to so many people its important to be as diplomatic as possible.

Fuck that. If people are too lazy to ask a good question and share information diplomacy is a waste of time. That's been proven over and over and over and over.

I plan on trying to find someone with smd tuner to give me a hand once I finish install.

That'd be the dumbest thing you've ever done.

[Trent Hari 1]

 

 

 

I know believe me. I have started a few threads and been frustrated as hell feeling like I was getting no useful info. Then I realized that all of the info I was being given was geared toward getting me to think and spend time listening to figure out what I was missing or wanting, and really listen to how adjustments affect sound (quality, output etc.)

 

Everything you do has a huge effect on output from the way your box is facing to something as simple as rolling down your windows. It just takes time to figure out your car, your equipment, and your install. 

Yeah but it sucks when i spell my whole setup out,with pics, and they can't even tell me the color of the sky lol. 

Just to be Philosophical  -

Maybe we don't know what we want , because we don't know what we can get with what we have. Or 

Maybe we don't know what were missing, because we have never heard a properly tuned SQ setup. 

.

.

.

My brain just melted from all the meaning that was in those two sentences. ;P 

But why improve something that sounds perfect?

 

You are being difficult because you think there is one solitary answer to any question.  This is FAR from the truth.  The trick is to use detail to describe the question to narrow down the answer.  If you never narrow it down the answer you could get won't apply to you making it useless & a waste of money.

Well i finally found out why i was not satisfied with my sound quality. The decks HPF was set to 100 hz but the subwoofer crossover was at 80 hz , but the speaker amp was set at 75 hz hpf. I did not know what i was missing, until i heard it sound correct. I couldn't even describe why i was not satisfied, I just knew something wasn't there that should have been. That was a kinda impossible situation for me and you i know. But on the plus side, i'm all good now

 

We seem to have trouble communicating ///M5

I notice that member ///M5 uses the word 'YOU" alot. anyone who has gone through  a psychology class can tell you that 'YOU" statements put the person being talked to in a defensive position, and they are less likely to see your point of view. "I" statements usually come across as more diplomatic and streamline communication. Heres a link to describe what i am talking about. http://www.humanpotentialcenter.org/Articles/IStatements.html

I type YOU because unlike some other sites that are only interested in selling their wares, we want to actually help.  Considering audio is subjective that means that can only be done with information from YOU.  Get it?

 

The communication problem is all you.  And now get ready to be defensive.  To me it sounds like your whole life has been a silver platter and you want to be spoon fed.  I'll give you a hint.  In audio if you won't think for yourself and try you'll never get where you want to go.

Understood. I never claimed I didn't have my own set of problems.     you have a valid point, as do i .

it appears you are the one being defensive.  - I don't even know you and you don't know me. lets not make a problem where there is none

 

now, after your done ripping on me, start trying to help people, stay on-topic ., and explain why using  a smd tuner is  a dumb idea.

[///M5 2,833]

Not defensive just explaining forum etiquette 101. Everyone else already understood...which leads to your implied problem. I have none, not sure why you would. Life is short, it's the internet, no need to take things personally.

The DD-1 is a great example of sharing the right details. I am seriously dumbfounded at what goal people would have in using it. It fulfills zero that I know of. I'd change my tune if someone cited a good one, but Steve and his engineer couldn't so I am doubtful there is one. So with what goal would you have in using one?

[pmureika 31]

First of all you can do it just as accurate with a digital multi meter, which you should have!

 

Google how to set amp gain with a dmm.

[rustydawwg 7]

I've realized the reason I blew out the subs was due to just overpowering them (I forgot to mention both type R's caught on fire). The gain was turned up a hair and no bass boost. I didnt even max the sub eq on the headunit.(but at least I know the "low ohm" shutoff works nicely )

[Trent Hari 1]

I've realized the reason I blew out the subs was due to just overpowering them (I forgot to mention both type R's caught on fire). The gain was turned up a hair and no bass boost. I didnt even max the sub eq on the headunit.(but at least I know the "low ohm" shutoff works nicely )

Haha Caught on fire!? yeah just a little overpowered

The gain on the head unit can do just as much damage as the one on the amp.  usually it is advisable not to mess with the sub boost on the head unit 

[///M5 2,833]

I've realized the reason I blew out the subs was due to just overpowering them (I forgot to mention both type R's caught on fire). The gain was turned up a hair and no bass boost. I didnt even max the sub eq on the headunit.(but at least I know the "low ohm" shutoff works nicely )

Haha Caught on fire!? yeah just a little overpowered

The gain on the head unit can do just as much damage as the one on the amp.  usually it is advisable not to mess with the sub boost on the head unit

Classic case again of exactly why you should use your ears. If they are trained to listen for stress and you teach them what it sounds like it doesn't matter what you do setting wise as you will know when you go too far.

Damage doesn't come from either gain knob, it comes from a careless user. First step is always to train your ears. Until then you shouldn't even have a stereo. Obviously learning steps are great, you've both had them, hopefully they sink in.

[rustydawwg 7]

 

 

 

I know believe me. I have started a few threads and been frustrated as hell feeling like I was getting no useful info. Then I realized that all of the info I was being given was geared toward getting me to think and spend time listening to figure out what I was missing or wanting, and really listen to how adjustments affect sound (quality, output etc.)

 

Everything you do has a huge effect on output from the way your box is facing to something as simple as rolling down your windows. It just takes time to figure out your car, your equipment, and your install. 

Yeah but it sucks when i spell my whole setup out,with pics, and they can't even tell me the color of the sky lol. 

Just to be Philosophical  -

Maybe we don't know what we want , because we don't know what we can get with what we have. Or 

Maybe we don't know what were missing, because we have never heard a properly tuned SQ setup. 

.

.

.

My brain just melted from all the meaning that was in those two sentences. ;P 

But why improve something that sounds perfect?

 

You are being difficult because you think there is one solitary answer to any question.  This is FAR from the truth.  The trick is to use detail to describe the question to narrow down the answer.  If you never narrow it down the answer you could get won't apply to you making it useless & a waste of money.

Well i finally found out why i was not satisfied with my sound quality. The decks HPF was set to 100 hz but the subwoofer crossover was at 80 hz , but the speaker amp was set at 75 hz hpf. I did not know what i was missing, until i heard it sound correct. I couldn't even describe why i was not satisfied, I just knew something wasn't there that should have been. That was a kinda impossible situation for me and you i know. But on the plus side, i'm all good now

 

We seem to have trouble communicating ///M5

I notice that member ///M5 uses the word 'YOU" alot. anyone who has gone through  a psychology class can tell you that 'YOU" statements put the person being talked to in a defensive position, and they are less likely to see your point of view. "I" statements usually come across as more diplomatic and streamline communication. Heres a link to describe what i am talking about. 

I type YOU because unlike some other sites that are only interested in selling their wares, we want to actually help.  Considering audio is subjective that means that can only be done with information from YOU.  Get it?

 

The communication problem is all you.  And now get ready to be defensive.  To me it sounds like your whole life has been a silver platter and you want to be spoon fed.  I'll give you a hint.  In audio if you won't think for yourself and try you'll never get where you want to go.

Understood. I never claimed I didn't have my own set of problems.     you have a valid point, as do i .

it appears you are the one being defensive.  - I don't even know you and you don't know me. lets not make a problem where there is none

 

now, after your done ripping on me, start trying to help people, stay on-topic ., and explain why using  a smd tuner is  a dumb idea.

+1

[rustydawwg 7]

I've realized the reason I blew out the subs was due to just overpowering them (I forgot to mention both type R's caught on fire). The gain was turned up a hair and no bass boost. I didnt even max the sub eq on the headunit.(but at least I know the "low ohm" shutoff works nicely )

Haha Caught on fire!? yeah just a little overpowered ;)The gain on the head unit can do just as much damage as the one on the amp.  usually it is advisable not to mess with the sub boost on the head unit

Classic case again of exactly why you should use your ears. If they are trained to listen for stress and you teach them what it sounds like it doesn't matter what you do setting wise as you will know when you go too far.Damage doesn't come from either gain knob, it comes from a careless user. First step is always to train your ears. Until then you shouldn't even have a stereo. Obviously learning steps are great, you've both had them, hopefully they sink in.

I shouldn't even have a sound system? I'm careless because I explained my situation and wanted constructive criticisim to help me out? I consider careless as encountering an issue and not wanting to find a solution to fix it.

[audio-neon 34]

 

 

I've realized the reason I blew out the subs was due to just overpowering them (I forgot to mention both type R's caught on fire). The gain was turned up a hair and no bass boost. I didnt even max the sub eq on the headunit.(but at least I know the "low ohm" shutoff works nicely )

Haha Caught on fire!? yeah just a little overpowered ;)The gain on the head unit can do just as much damage as the one on the amp.  usually it is advisable not to mess with the sub boost on the head unit

Classic case again of exactly why you should use your ears. If they are trained to listen for stress and you teach them what it sounds like it doesn't matter what you do setting wise as you will know when you go too far.Damage doesn't come from either gain knob, it comes from a careless user. First step is always to train your ears. Until then you shouldn't even have a stereo. Obviously learning steps are great, you've both had them, hopefully they sink in.

I shouldn't even have a sound system? I'm careless because I explained my situation and wanted constructive criticisim to help me out? I consider careless as encountering an issue and not wanting to find a solution to fix it.

There are a lot of issues here.  M5 is a good guy, and his knowledge of car audio (hell any audio among other things) is far superior to my own.  

 

I can tell you that overpowering a type r shouldn't catch it on fire, I have tested a type-r on a pair of saz-1500d's strapped.  I have intentionally blown subs (and intentionally abused them).  Improper enclosure seems to be much more likely for your subwoofer woes. 

 

Anyways, a jl1000/1 should be incapable of blowing any decent subwoofer.  For information, I suggest you look for topics on setting gains properly.  If you fear overpowering a subwoofer (in a sealed enclosure) build the enclosure on the smaller side of the recommended enclosure.

 

Subwoofer failure comes from several reasons (generally)

over-extension (caused by playing a subwoofer below a boxes tuning frequency, air leaks in a sealed enclosure or grossly overpowering a subwoofer).

poor manufacturing (rare if bought from a reputable company)

clipping ( excessive volume, gain)  Bass boost should never be used, loud mode etc...

Lastly low voltage and improper impedance can cause issues, but more than likely would result in a blown/damaged amplifier.