Kenwood vs Pioneer SQ and Ease of Use/ SQ setup

[Trent Hari 1]

sweet, i just wondered, because my door panel really hugs the sheet metal, theres like a piece that cups the speaker, so all the sound is funneled out the grill.

What about those pre-made baffles i see for like 8 bucks? they look like they just bolt right in with the speakers. I apologize if that is a dumb idea, but it looks like they would be easy to install and inexpensive.

 

 

Edited May 24, 2013 by Trent Hari

[altoncustomtech 773]

If you're referring to the formed foam baffles, they're almost worthless. When it comes to the rings that can be bought, they're okay but still don't quite serve the purpose. The idea behind using the baffles is to give the speaker a very solid surface to mount to with much more mass to it than the plastic and sheet metal of the typical factory door speaker installation provides. The stiffer and heavier mounting location helps to minimize losses in output and helps to reduce issues with resonance since the extra mass lowers the resonant frequency of the panel.

Every teeny tiny little thing affects the sound that is reproduced by a speaker. Sure, plenty of it is determined by the speaker itself, but it's even more dependent on how it's installed and it's that installation which should not be skimped on both in effort and budget. An optimal installation for a cheap set of speakers can wipe the floor with a crappy installation for a very expensive (and considered great) set of speakers.

[Trent Hari 1]

Well at least i didn't skimp on the speakers .  - again, i am on a budget temporaraly.

This is what i was looking at - http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_9441_Metra-81-4300.html?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=productads&device=c&network=g&matchtype=&gclid=CIenx9e9r7cCFUlxQgodjggAWA - It  looks like it gives the speaker a small sealed enclosure, instead of the whole door panel ( Which flexes enough to feel even with some dynamat) . and  if i wrap the baffle in dynamat , it would add a lot of mass. Would i get a benefit from that or would it hurt? ( i saw a review of possible overheating) 

I would use that until i get a chance to build a proper baffle.

 If it is likely to be better if i just wait until i have a chance to do it right, i will. although, it will probably be several months because work is getting more busy, getting ready for the hay season.

[audio-neon 34]

Well at least i didn't skimp on the speakers .  - again, i am on a budget temporaraly.

This is what i was looking at - http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_9441_Metra-81-4300.html?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=productads&device=c&network=g&matchtype=&gclid=CIenx9e9r7cCFUlxQgodjggAWA - It  looks like it gives the speaker a small sealed enclosure, instead of the whole door panel ( Which flexes enough to feel even with some dynamat) . and  if i wrap the baffle in dynamat , it would add a lot of mass. Would i get a benefit from that or would it hurt? ( i saw a review of possible overheating) 

I would use that until i get a chance to build a proper baffle.

 If it is likely to be better if i just wait until i have a chance to do it right, i will. although, it will probably be several months because work is getting more busy, getting ready for the hay season.

Well that is very debatable, you did pick a speaker notorious for strong treble response (iirc type r components/coaxials come with metal tweeters which can be harsh).

 

But I would steer clear of the foam baffle, although it does dampen some of the back wave resonance; I have never had good luck with them.  The pockets are flexible, and in turn move with the speaker.  I would focus on adding weight (sound deadening) the inner door panel, or using a mdf mounting ring between the speaker and the metal door panel, at the very least.

 

The weak midbass your are referring to, immediately makes me think of the fact that the type-r's don't have a particularly efficient midbass, every experience I have ever had with them has involved some sense of lacking.

 

You could possibly cross the subwoofer over slightly higher, to help reinforce that ~80-150 hz range.  Also your tweeters could be crossed over at too high of a frequency or too steep of a curve.  This could be solved by going active and removing the type-r crossovers.  There is plenty of information here on going active.  It is another option that will give you so much more flexibility and control over your speakers.

[Trent Hari 1]

Okay I knew that the type rs were a little weak in midrange,but when I mentioned that, I was told it was the installation. I think it may be a little of both.

I finally got some pics of my install, I'll upload them later when I get back from work. Maybe that will clear some stuff up

For now, I may not be able to go active yet due to limitations from my current Head unit.

[Trent Hari 1]

 I  have a video of the sound taken with my new GS4 , it is a pretty accurate reproduction with just a little mic distortion, not much. It should give you guys an idea of how it sounds. and i also have a few pics of my speaker install, but im not sure how to post them, as my upload limit is full. Ill try Picassa

Edited May 25, 2013 by Trent Hari

[handman84 60]

 

^^^Stock location

 

 

Baffles ^^^

 

 

^^^Screwed right into the factory holes

 

Mount speaker^^^

 

^^^Replace door panel 

 

^^^You would never know I was there

[handman84 60]

I put ebr between the panel and the baffle but you could use cld (dynamat) or whatever you have, even if you just use the baffle and no dampener you will hear a huge benefit. The baffles can be made for much cheaper than those pre made turds and yield infinitely better results. Keep in mind that keeping your speakers behind the panel is NOT ideal, but if you are like me and on a budget and not wanting to modify too much this is an easy way to get much more from your setup

[Trent Hari 1]

That looks like it would work for me. Are those prefabbed? If so, where did you get those?

I notice that they do not do anything for behind the speakers. does it matter how large the enclosure (door panel) for the speaker is?

I looked at my install, and they do have one of those plastic rings around the speaker, along with a bracket.

[Shogen 325]

looks like he made those

 

 

That looks like it would work for me. Are those prefabbed? If so, where did you get those?

I notice that they do not do anything for behind the speakers. does it matter how large the enclosure (door panel) for the speaker is?

I looked at my install, and they do have one of those plastic rings around the speaker, along with a bracket.

[Trent Hari 1]

Heres a pic of my speaker install, and the door panel that goes around the speaker

 

and heres a link to the video that may work - It was recorded with my Galaxy S4. when i replayed it through bluetooth, it sounded very similar to the what it origionally sounded like. sorry if its not the best, i took it after working 7 hours on truck tires and I was pretty tired:/  

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/uGyFXlH8YaNvLk4JCxYmsM8DDe7NDed5l14vuqIhEUA?feat=directlink

Edited May 26, 2013 by Trent Hari

[altoncustomtech 773]

Where's the Dynamat?  I'm not seeing the whole picture I'm sure, but all I see is the factory plastic vapor layer.

 

You might have to trim the plastic ring that fits up to the speaker from the door panel a bit, but you can definitely benefit from a simple wood baffle.  Being bolted almost directly to the metal like that without anything on or around the speaker is far from the right way to do it.

[Trent Hari 1]

I edited my post take a look at the video and let me know what you think.

the dynamat is retardedly on the exterior panel, i put it there to minimize noise from the traffic, and also i didn't want to have problems re installing the interior panel.(and i didn't have a clue what i was doing)  I put a little, not much, on the backside of the metal that the speaker is bolted to.

Heres the video again. Recorded with a GS4. its pretty close to how it sounded (Not quite as clear tho)

https://plus.google.com/photos/103700741015793191801/albums/5676924047589319649/5881871955783496610?banner=pwa&gpsrc=pwrd1&authkey=CICE1ve94fOJDQ&pid=5881871955783496610&oid=103700741015793191801

 

Im going to build a baffle soon

Edited May 26, 2013 by Trent Hari

[altoncustomtech 773]

Damn, file won't play on that site and it's 251MB to download, too much for my slow internet connection to do right now, lol.

 

A little is better than nothing and depending on how much you put on there it may still be fine.  25% coverage is about the best amount of coverage to use since more than that is generally a waste.  A full treatment (including CCF and MLV) would help more than you can imagine.  Hell just the CCF in the Jimmy made a world of difference.

[Trent Hari 1]

Did you try again with the new link?

( I did a new link- here https://plus.google.com/photos/103700741015793191801/albums/5676924047589319649/5881871955783496610?banner=pwa&gpsrc=pwrd1&authkey=CICE1ve94fOJDQ&pid=5881871955783496610&oid=103700741015793191801

 

Yeah i may be shopping for a set of mids sometime . Know of any good ones? jk thats a bad question, ill just look. Know of any that are Made in america?

Edited May 26, 2013 by Trent Hari

[Trent Hari 1]

What no comment on the video? How is that for SQ ?

 

anyway, im working on some baffles, do these look like they would work?

Heres a pic of inside the door panel

 

Heres a pic of my shop

 

[///M5 2,833]

Why would you ever pay for anything with tools like that?   HPDE makes nice baffle material.  Sure beats sealing the mdf.

[Trent Hari 1]

Okay ill start cutting it out. 

Does that video work for anyone? i want to upload another one sometime, but im not sure how to do it.

Any comments on the SQ would be good.

[Trent Hari 1]

Im almost done, I haven't tested for fit yet though. should i bolt or screw it to the door?

Any tips? i dont really know what im doing lol

Edited May 26, 2013 by Trent Hari

[ricksi30 923]

Any comments on the SQ would be good.

That is not possible.

[handman84 60]

Trace the stock plastic speaker mounting baffle onto the ones you have made and screw them to the factory holes. That is the easiest way with as little mod as possible.  The dynamat behind the speaker is good and if you have any left put it between the panel and the baffle. 

 

X2 on sean's comment about your shop.  I would kill for access to a work space like that! Good luck with the install. Trial and error will teach you more than anything else. couple the experience with the advice given here and your install and your ears will thank you

[Trent Hari 1]

I could only get one side done tonight, tell me what you guys think!  The only problem i see now is the speaker isn't perfectly in line with the grill. let me know if that's a problem. 

 

[ricksi30 923]

Looks pretty good man!

[handman84 60]

Not bad at all sir. I don't think the not quite perfect alignment will be an issue unless the speaker is hitting the door panel. Looks good

[Trent Hari 1]

Thanks guys! nope its not hitting  Just one more to go and then bridge the amp.