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puscifer2

not quite right

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Let me start by saying that in no way, am I bashing this sub. It is god like compared to the mainstream brands I have always run in the past.

 

My current system is 1 12" Fi BL w/ cooling on a Sundown SAZ 1500.v3. The box is right from the cut sheet on this forum, posted by ndmstang 2.4 cu. ft. @ 32 hz. I think. 1/0 ga. big 3 with Shuriken bt-80 in the trunk, stock alt. Sound deadning throughout.  2004 ford focus. I think I overshot my goals a little. During an audio show at the local shop, I hit 131.4 @ 36hz. Doing demos for people with Dubstep, I always hear about their vision blurring and noses itching. "WOW look at your car shake!" On that end of the spectrum I could not be more happy!

The killer is I listen to metal for the most part and I haven't been able to get anything near or remotly close to output or sound quality this driver is capable of. It sounds weak on most songs, has some nasty resonance on notes too high, that if I eq out leaves a hole in the spectrum, and unable to keep up on others. Meaning instead of individual bass drum beats it sounds more like a constant bass line. So I need advice from those smarter than me on how to correct it. Should I remove the sub, trim the inner port run to raise tuning and try again? Is that even a way to raise tuning? If so, than how much to what hz? I usually run sealed boxes but that isn't a viable option in this case Fi doesnt recommend sealed for the BL. My other thought was to sell this box and sub, buy a 15" xcon put it in a 3.0 cu. ft. sealed box on the same amp and try that. I don't have endless funds to keep having new boxes made. Nor can I build them for lack of tools and just as important, lack of skill. I have been lurking on this site for awhile, this my first post. If I need to give more info on anything I will respond promptly as I usually look at this site every night after work. Thx for any advice :)

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I think you have 2 issues to deal with. One being your frontstage not being able to produce proper midbass and the second issue is your x-over settings on maybe the whole system. Tell us a little more about the rest of your speakers, headunit and whatever else may be in there

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Where's the LPF low pass filter and SSF subsonic filter set on the sundown amp?

 

If you could shorten the length of port then yes that would raise tuning, but I wouldn't consider that yet.

 

Could you please clarify the following: 
 

The killer is I listen to metal for the most part and I haven't been able to get anything near or remotly close to output or sound quality this driver is capable of.

It sounds weak on most songs, has some nasty resonance on notes too high

In one statement you say the output and sound quality are great, and in the next you say the complete opposite. Please try to elaborate on what you don't like, or feel is wrong.

 

What front speakers are you using? On an amp? Any crossovers or eq being applied?

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All 4 doors have Alpine sps-517 5x7's. Not a huge fan of oval speakers, but i got them before I had a direction of subwoofer setup. There is a Hertz HCP4 amplifer on those crossed at 100 hz. The amp has a hpf built in but fixed @ 80 hz. My headunit is a Pioneer DEH-X8500BH.  The lpf on the sundown is 50 hz. set by the H.U. If I change it to 63hz. thats when the resonance kicks in. Alot of the music I like seems to go right into that little sweet spot of bad. The SSF is 26-28 hz. Somewhere right there not an exact figure but definatly not lower than that. And to clarify, I'm sure most of it is in the recording. Seems like the dubstep and bass cd's have boosted basslines. During those songs I have to turn down the remote volume control for the Sundown to about the half way mark. When I listen to say, Meshuggah I lose most of the "loudness" even with the remote volume maxed. The gain is about 5/8 of the way on the Sundown if that means anything. 

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Part of the issue could be the content you used to originally set the gain. IE: dubstep music boosts bass levels, and metal music doesn't. So if you set the gain with dubstep than that's why when you max it out the metal music still seems lacking. You could reset the gain, use metal music or music that isn't bass heavy, and use the remote knob to lower the volume for dubstep. When you set the gain you could also raise the bass level on the deck, so you have more headroom for turning it down on dubstep.

 

Of all the drivers I've used, BL, dcon, icon, xcon I've always been happy with the LPF set in the 50hz region, like you said, past that and the sound became muddy (IMO).

 

Your problem is midbass, not the subwoofer. I would focus on upgrading your front stage, and sound deadening the front doors.

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I agree with Stefan. I have become a fan of using Dire Straits "Money for nothing" when setting up my system. It provides the perfect balance to set with imo. Upgrading the front stage would greatly benefit the sound of your system. Get some 5x7 to 6.5 adapters and get decent set of components.

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Alright I have a goal for tomorrow. I'll reset gains with something I would normally listen to and go from there.I've been tinkering for awhile with this. Turning the box different directions, changing eq and whatnot. I just might die if it was this simple the whole time... And for the 5x7 to 6.5 adapters, anyone know where to buy some? I looked around town and they have to be custom made. 200 dollars for 4 adapters doesnt seem worth it to me. Btw I have deadned all 4 doors, just need to get comps for them. I still might get the xcon I mentioned earlier, just because you can never have too much equipment lol ;)

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Alright I have a goal for tomorrow. I'll reset gains with something I would normally listen to and go from there.I've been tinkering for awhile with this. Turning the box different directions, changing eq and whatnot. I just might die if it was this simple the whole time... And for the 5x7 to 6.5 adapters, anyone know where to buy some? I looked around town and they have to be custom made. 200 dollars for 4 adapters doesnt seem worth it to me. Btw I have deadned all 4 doors, just need to get comps for them. I still might get the xcon I mentioned earlier, just because you can never have too much equipment lol wink.png

Hold off on the xcon until after you do the front stage because I think you'll be quite happy with the BL.

Check sonic electronix, crutchfield, http://www.car-speaker-adapters.com/ for speaker adapters. If you have a drill, electric jigsaw, and some mdf you can make your own for next to nothing.

When you install the new speakers make sure that the sheet metal panel they're being mounted to is sealed so it doesn't have any large openings or that will kill your midbass.

IE: http://blog.stefanhinote.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/2012-02-03_11-51-46_959.jpg

I used some extra cld tiles and mlv to seal the opening, and then placed a sheet of mlv over the entire door, used butyl around the edges, and industrial velcro for mounting.

http://blog.stefanhinote.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/2012-02-03_12-21-48_521.jpg

Hope that helps.

Edited by stefanhinote

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What year mustang do you have? In my 2011 I could not fit my Bravox 6.5's without them rubbing on the inner door skin, so you have to take that into account. It'll range from 2010+ models. Not sure about the older ones however.

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What year mustang do you have? In my 2011 I could not fit my Bravox 6.5's without them rubbing on the inner door skin, so you have to take that into account. It'll range from 2010+ models. Not sure about the older ones however.

He has a ford focus?

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What year mustang do you have? In my 2011 I could not fit my Bravox 6.5's without them rubbing on the inner door skin, so you have to take that into account. It'll range from 2010+ models. Not sure about the older ones however.

He has a ford focus?

Focus, Mustang...same shit right? :peepwall:

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What year mustang do you have? In my 2011 I could not fit my Bravox 6.5's without them rubbing on the inner door skin, so you have to take that into account. It'll range from 2010+ models. Not sure about the older ones however.

He has a ford focus?

I think I'm high right now...

Disregard 

ninja.gif

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What year mustang do you have? In my 2011 I could not fit my Bravox 6.5's without them rubbing on the inner door skin, so you have to take that into account. It'll range from 2010+ models. Not sure about the older ones however.

He has a ford focus?

Focus, Mustang...same shit right? peepwall.gif

icon_roflmao.gif

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lmfao!!! 

 

also to OP, listen to Stefan... He knows something about something... sometimes...

 

 

 

What year mustang do you have? In my 2011 I could not fit my Bravox 6.5's without them rubbing on the inner door skin, so you have to take that into account. It'll range from 2010+ models. Not sure about the older ones however.

He has a ford focus?

Focus, Mustang...same shit right? peepwall.gif

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I have a 2010 mustang convertible and I had to offset my Sundown 6.5's to clear the dash because in their unlimited dumbness Ford set up the 5x7's to fit right to the edge of the dash.

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lmfao!!! 

 

also to OP, listen to Stefan... He knows something about something... sometimes...

 

 

 

What year mustang do you have? In my 2011 I could not fit my Bravox 6.5's without them rubbing on the inner door skin, so you have to take that into account. It'll range from 2010+ models. Not sure about the older ones however.

He has a ford focus?

Focus, Mustang...same shit right? :peepwall:

lmfao!!! 

 

also to OP, listen to Stefan... He knows something about something... sometimes...

 

 

 

What year mustang do you have? In my 2011 I could not fit my Bravox 6.5's without them rubbing on the inner door skin, so you have to take that into account. It'll range from 2010+ models. Not sure about the older ones however.

He has a ford focus?

Focus, Mustang...same shit right? :peepwall:
<<‹<<<said same stuff before Stefan, but doesn't know shit :peepwall:

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you kinda did, without as much info.... but really I just like him more... lol

 

 

 
 

 


 

<<‹<<<said same stuff before Stefan, but doesn't know shit peepwall.gif

 

 

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Julian, if it makes you feel better I had a 93 Mustang GT awhile back... Anyway on your advice Stefan, I started redoing gains today and... a wise man once said "Speakers are dumb, they do exactly what you tell them to". If you tell your sub "Hey don't play these frequencies" guess what, they won't. (smacks forehead) I unhooked the rca cables from the full channel amp to listen to the sub on its own. Just to make sure that going from one type of music to another I wouldn't be overdoing it. All of the songs I had an issue with weren't coming through the sub anyway. The main impact of bass drums is upon the front stage to produce. My past experience is messing with my present setup. I stated earlier that I normally use sealed boxes. To be specific small sealed boxes that I could easily crossover at 80 hz with no issues. There by taking the load off of the rest of the system to hit those tones. Now I have this beast sub that can go to the lowest places I didn't believe possible on a 12" speaker, and expect it to hit the mid to high bass with no problem at the same time??? I have learned a very valuble lesson today, just because you have better equipment DOES NOT mean it can do all of the work for you. If anything you have to work harder to get it balanced to your specific liking. You guys try to beat into the head of alot of readers on here that install is everything. Tuning is part of the install. Thank you guys for your replies. Stefan I will look at those adapters you sent ideas on. I'm kind of embarrassed to be the guy that starts a thread that is a waste of time to those who read it. Thank you again for the replies. Now to overhual the front stage...

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Can it be? No way, really? Stefans first nuthugger! :P

you kinda did, without as much info.... but really I just like him more... lol

<<‹<<<said same stuff before Stefan, but doesn't know shit :peepwall:

Edited by ChILL

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I wouldn't go as far as all that chill. I respect the knowledge of all the big players on here. 95honda, Stefan, m5, shizzon, and so on. Too many names to write them all. There really is an excellent array of talent on this forum. That's why I stick around even if only in the background soaking it up.

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I wouldn't go as far as all that chill. I respect the knowledge of all the big players on here. 95honda, Stefan, m5, shizzon, and so on. Too many names to write them all. There really is an excellent array of talent on this forum. That's why I stick around even if only in the background soaking it up.

oh he knows I'm just playing. We don't get serious around here, only the newbs do that ;)

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Glad you're on the right track now. You wouldn't believe how many times I've been stumped with something only to later find out the culprit was something so small or simple that it was overlooked.

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I wouldn't go as far as all that chill. I respect the knowledge of all the big players on here. 95honda, Stefan, m5, shizzon, and so on. Too many names to write them all. There really is an excellent array of talent on this forum. That's why I stick around even if only in the background soaking it up.

 

 

What's the world coming to?  sigh.gif

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You weren't kidding chill. Everybody has jokes. ;p

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You weren't kidding chill. Everybody has jokes. ;p

I don't think Ryan was joking ;)

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