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freshkryp69

Deadener prices have doubled in 5-10 years, why?

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        Was up,
         
        Ive been here a bunch of times and just now am I starting to post, This forum has changed and I like it, vs when I originally signed up..I mainly hung out on the OG PG Phorum, DIYaudo,Diyma,sd etc under the same user name of Freshkryp69, Ive sold tons of amps on ebay but haven't in awhile (sick of paypals shit).. I Had another kid in 07 my beautiful daughter and I put everything on the back burner audio wise, but kept most of my equipment for that one day, now my kids are 19 & 6 in school full time so now I have time to play again!


        In my noob days I thought I was the shit for figuring out that the $15 roll of asphalt based Peel-n-Seal worked great for sound deadener , or so I thought at the time! Untill the 3 layers on my roof made the headliner sag from FL heat hitting the roof, and coming unstuck from everywhere I stuck it.
       

        The dam price of Deadener has "sky rocketed" for no apparent reason since my last install. I bought 200sqft of "Fat Mat" for $200 shipped from ebay. Now for anything decent its $175-200 for 100sqft and you'd be lucky if it's really 80mils! WTF gives? The usual, "it's selling like hot cakes so charge more"..? Only a few advancements have been made in sound deadening and that's due to material used. What I had back then is the same shit as they have today, aluminum/butyl, anything with reasonable cost is made from the same materials. Just twice the cost now..
       
        Up until 07 I had a slammed 98 Dodge Avenger v6, I had +200sqft of deadener installed, from top to bottom,front to back.. dash out and everything. The doors had up to 7 layers total of deadener, to achieve that sweet thud when being shut and NO rattles, (inside of outer panel x 2 layers, inside and outside of inner door panel, all 3 places it should be on a door), double up everywhere else. Yea I know I went over board, but that was the point! Made a Huge difference, I need that much coverage to get those results, it changed the whole car, the experience driving it, a lot less road noise, which needed to be realized to justify all the sq amps,equip etc I was buying. I have 2 ID-Max 12's but wanted more output. Then I made the a decision that completely defeated My SQ goals by buying in 06 a RE XXX D2 12", I had a enclosure made, 2.8cf @ 30hz and 2 usa-2000's (green boards) 1 on each coil, It was pucking nuts! And completely over powered my 2 way PRS comp's and imaging tweets I had up front, all being amp'd by 3 Orion Nt200's. The point is, nothing rattled except my sunroof, which broke the tracks and fapped like no tomorrow..

      Now I have a 03 Silverado etx cab will a fiberglass bed cover, one of the nice one's that lift up in the back with the help of gas cylinders painted the same color as my truck. And now I'm set out to do a "Blow Thru" 4th order, it's the only way I can do anything and keep the rear seat is to use the entire bed for equipment with a blow thru setup.

    And now I'm back to the first thing that needs to be done, deadening again, and I'm just not seeing the justification for 2 x the cost for the same product. Anyone know where to get 200sf for $200?

Later


Brad

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You do NOT need 200 square feet of cld to have the results you want. If you want to do it right email Don@sounddeadenershowdown.com

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One of the things that have changed since your involvement in audio is the evolution of HOW deadener is used as opposed to WHAT it's made of.  Yes, aluminum/butyl is still the best combination of materials for CLD (compressed layer dampener) but multiple layers of the product is not how you achieve the best results.  It's been studied and tested and discovered that a person only needs 25% coverage of CLD in most cases for it to do it's specific job.  There are products that accompany the CLD now from most of the reputable manufacturers that compliment the performance of the CLD and do the jobs you/we were trying to do with multiple layers of CLD.  The first is called CCF (closed cell foam) and it's job is to be a barrier between the sheet metal and the trim panels/door panels/etc. to stop the rattles you hear when they're contacting each other.   The second is called MLV (mass loaded vinyl) and it's the sweet product that goes with the CCF to actually block the unwanted noise and does it FAR better than multiple layers of CLD ever could.

 

You're not going to find 200sqft of deadener for $200 anymore because all the manufacturers who were making their "rubber based compound" or "Butyl mixed compound" etc. crappy products back then finally got called on their BS and people have learned to stay away from that stuff.  Yes, even FatMat wasn't or isn't actually using REAL butyl.  They could all be that cheap because it was really still an asphalt based product.  Reputable companies like Second Skin and SoundDeadenerShowdown for example are making the real products that really work.  Sure, you can't get 200sqft for $200 anymore but you don't need to, you shouldn't need that much to get the results from the CLD that you need.

 

Read up on www.SoundDeadenerShowdown.com to get better informed of the landscape that is now sound deadening.  Don tells it straight and is one of the few vendors out there who REALLY knows what he's talking about AND will only sell you as much product as you need to do your job right unlike years ago when the manufacturers wanted to convince you that you needed all those layers and all that product so they could make serious money because all they were selling you was the wide rolls of Peel N Seal with a logo on it.

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its not the same ole crap it used to be.... well ... im sure fatmat is  but secondskin and SDS  is well worth the money... and in no way should you need 7 layers ....

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Sorry to bump an old thread, but just wanted to add something based on experience. I would not personally go with Audio Technix/CT Sounds/whatever it's called this week. I had received a 10sqft sample in one of their giveaways and used most of it on my front doors as well as what was left over for the area under my rear seats where the fuel pump is located. After about six months, I went back into the doors to do some CCF rings around my mids and noticed everything transformed to a sticky butyl mess. I had to pull strings on strings of butyl out just to keep it from falling onto my mids. Additionally, there's a round indentation on the rear bench where the butyl had actually sagged and separated from the top layer, exposing plastic and apparently NO foil. That left me with the conclusion that this 60mil material was nothing but butyl and plastic. Any foil that resides in there was not bonded well enough to the top layer to effect any change.

 

Swapping to SecondSkin Damp Pro was a night and day difference. The sheets are thick, relatively easy to apply even without a roller, and the foil layer on top is substantial. There is not a hint of plastic in the material and its effects were instantly tangible and noticeable in reducing panel resonance. I can easily see a single layer of this well-applied to resonant areas would mitigate the need to have 100% coverage for the whole panel and none of the layers I've applied have shown signs of sagging or separating, even after 110-degree summer heat and completely upside-down mounting. When I swap vehicles to an early-2ks Tahoe, I fully intend on biting the bullet and ordering about 80sqft of Damp Pro to cover all essential areas of the vehicle, supplementing with some LuxuryLiner Pro on the floorboards for decoupling.

 

The old adage of "you get what you pay for" does apply here. Don at SDS has run extensive tests of his own and will more than help you out without making you feel like his product is the be-all-end-all. Rick from Raamat will do the same, but is a little harder to get a hold of. Last I talked to him, he was going cross-country with his wife and toys.

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