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rowdyful7

low subs vs spl subs

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this might come off as stupid on my part and im just trying to learn as much as i can so please no hate but why does when somebody ask about two different subs people always say there way different goals but theres only 3 goals that i know of deep sq or spl and when you say you want a sub that does one of those people say its 99.9 percent the build if thats true shouldnt you just get the sub with the most motor force and just build the box for what you want

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this might come off as stupid on my part and im just trying to learn as much as i can so please no hate but why does when somebody ask about two different subs people always say there way different goals but theres only 3 goals that i know of deep sq or spl and when you say you want a sub that does one of those people say its 99.9 percent the build if thats true shouldnt you just get the sub with the most motor force and just build the box for what you want

 

If you really think about it a second you'll find out that there are a ton of goals. 

 

Things that change end goals can range from the following.

 

Vehicle - Hatch, trunk, van, pickup with single cab, pickup extended cab, suv, boat, and many others

Power - Alternator, Big 3 done?, size/type of amp, runs of power/ground

Subs - Coil size, motor force, Sub size, thiele small parameters

Space contstraints within vehicle - Height, width, depth. (helps to determine size and type of wood as well after obtaining power handeling)

 

 

FFS the list goes on and on. So yah it helps to give a back story at least and give your own opinion sometimes. You might not always like the answer, but it will be helpful towards your final goal more often than not. 

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High motor force to cone weight ratio gives a funky response with increased output at tuning. No where near accurate music representation. Everything must be in sync.

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this might come off as stupid on my part and im just trying to learn as much as i can so please no hate but why does when somebody ask about two different subs people always say there way different goals but theres only 3 goals that i know of deep sq or spl and when you say you want a sub that does one of those people say its 99.9 percent the build if thats true shouldnt you just get the sub with the most motor force and just build the box for what you want

And you've highlighted why we don't use SQ or SPL as options on this site.

 

Generally speaking SPL focuses on getting a single note to be as loud as possible at the same SQ having every note have equal loudness.  I see that as only two goals.  Not sure where you get the third.  At the same time, I'd bet for 99% of the forum neither of the two goals is the right answer.

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When you see someone like me say different goals, it is usually when two different models that were designed with different intentions, features, characteristics, limitations etc. are being compared directly.  So it is inferring that the person asking should define their goals first, then the equipment that best fits their goals can be addressed. ;)

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thanks guys youve been alot of help but another question the other day someone asked about the sp4 and evil and people where acting like they were nothing alike atol

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at all how diffrent can they be there both built for builds around low 30 hertz right?

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at all how diffrent can they be there both built for builds around low 30 hertz right?

So, you are trying to say there is no differentiation in design of ANY decent sub on the market?  The only ones that don't fit in your description are either complete pieces of shit or ones with particular applications. 

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My personal opinion is that both subs sound great daily "if that's what you're looking for" and get loud and low doing it (If the enclosure is built correctly)

 

I myself own an Sp4 and a buddy that lives extremely close to me (Sencheezy) owns an evil. I will not go on about how either of us sound better than the other because the setups are totally different. They both sound great in their designed implementations. He is running a crescendo 5500 to his Evil while I run an AQ2200 to my Sp4. He has a huge enclosure with like 180sq (hopefully he will correct me if im off) in of port while I have a small one with like 70sq in, and finally here's the final thing we share in common is that we are both tuned to right at around 31hz and both remain pretty flat on our curves. The truth is the sub is only a small fraction of how well it will sound in what environment you put it in. Just because it has a TC basket and is 18" only means you start off with similarities. The motors are different to start off with, Sp4 has an optional spider spacing and whatnot as well. Hell throw in the Crossfire XSv2 since it has a TC basket. I guess it's the same too right? No, they're all made for different reasons. You have to wear hair gel and sleeveless shirts to rock the crossfire stuff! 

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What are the different reasons the SP4 and Evil are made?

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What are the different reasons the SP4 and Evil are made?

Fi wanted a premium 4" coil'ed subwoofer and SSA wanted to add a premium 4" coil'ed subwoofer.  ;)

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What are the different reasons the SP4 and Evil are made?

Fi wanted a premium 4" coil'ed subwoofer and SSA wanted to add a premium 4" coil'ed subwoofer.  wink.png

I swear to god I was typing this lol

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It's become apparent that coil size is not really a deciding factor as world records are still being held by 3" coils too though.

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Well now that both have 4" coils, in terms of sound or design purposes what are the goals?

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Well now that both have 4" coils, in terms of sound or design purposes what are the goals?

Seriously how idiotic can you guys be?  Drinking edub's koolaid, eh?

 

Why limit it to just those two drivers?  Sure there is an answer, but when you are asking fishing questions they aren't really worth answering.  Take a crack at my last comment instead first.  If you don't understand that context you wouldn't get the answers you'll get on this either.

 

at all how diffrent can they be there both built for builds around low 30 hertz right?

So, you are trying to say there is no differentiation in design of ANY decent sub on the market?  The only ones that don't fit in your description are either complete pieces of shit or ones with particular applications. 

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No need for insults.  I'm not that knowledgeable about car audio.  

 

Also, where I live, car audio is a foreign language here as the only shop that sells stuff is Best Buy, Wal-Mart, and the flea market.  

 

If you know something that others don't please share.  

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By the way, I mix my own syrup...

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No need for insults.  I'm not that knowledgeable about car audio.  

 

Also, where I live, car audio is a foreign language here as the only shop that sells stuff is Best Buy, Wal-Mart, and the flea market.  

 

If you know something that others don't please share.  

Sorry, figured you were a clone of shit stirrer.

 

Fundamentally all subs are designed differently.  Normally this is for marketing.  The comments in this thread that have me frustrated are:

-since they are designed for xxHz they must be the same

-since they are both 4" coils they are the same

 

I realize I changed the context of the posts, but not the implication.  A coil diameter in general has VERY little to do with the design of the driver.  Same with a particular frequency recommendation for a box, it's a car of course it'll be designed for a box that suits cabin gain.  Pretty rudimentary, no?

 

Could ask the same question you are asking about the options on the Fi subs.  Obviously they change the response as well.  :)

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I figured going with a larger coil diameter was more of a "larger bass-penis" to begin with and other reasons later on. There will never be truth to anything in car audio since anyone can prove someone wrong just with bending physics sometimes.

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I figured going with a larger coil diameter was more of a "larger bass-penis" to begin with and other reasons later on. There will never be truth to anything in car audio since anyone can prove someone wrong just with bending physics sometimes.

You can make an extremely meaty 3" coil to handle power.

Maybe one of the main reasons to use a larger diameter coil is to make the pole larger. Metal has a cut off point in which it can no longer absorb or allow magnetism to flow through it. (Akin to copper wire and electricity). When it hits this point, also called "hitting its knee" it can cause flux issues and if severe enough can demagnetize the magnets.

The other is true also. If too much metal is in a motor compared to the magnetic force it can act as a resistor impeding magnetic flow resulting in a loss of magnetic flux in the gap.

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I also think people forget it isn't the diameter of the coil, it is the overall surface area when you are talking heat dissipation...  Like Quentin said, there are many 3" (and even 2") coils that have more surface area than a ton of 4" coils...

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Another thing the OP needs to understand is that EVERY sub is different, not just from one brand or model to another but from one to the next off the assembly line.  The Thiele/Small parameters of every speaker will pretty much tell you exactly how it's going to work and what kind of response you can expect from it.  While any reputable brand has manufacturing tolerances that are EXTREMELY tight and every one that's built in the same model has T/S specs that are extremely close, they're not perfect and there can even be a "measured" difference from one to the next.  Will it be audible?  Not in the majority of cases, but it can be measured.  For example the Mms or the mass of the moving assembly (coil, cone, etc.) is measured in grams.  Have you ever held a single gram weight in your hand?  A little too much glue on a joint, an imperfection in the materials the cone is built with is all it takes to change it.  The Cms is the compliance or stiffness of the suspension.  That specification tells you how stiff or easy the moving mass is to move.  Le, Bl, Re, Sd, Fs, Qts, Qes, Qms, Vas, and Xmax round out the rest of the more common paramters and with devices this simple and "small" on the scale of their measurements it doesn't take much to change how they are going to work.  There are formula's that use these numbers to figure out the response of the driver, the way it's going to act in a given environment and can tell a person the kind of environment to put it in.  There's A LOT of multiplication and division that goes on with these formula's and some of the parameters have a much larger effect on the overall outcome than others.

 

The point is, while two different drivers, such as the SP4 and EVIL, may have similar physical properties ultimately they're going to work and respond in different ways.  Sure, they could even be similar enough in their measurements and parameters that their response could be graphed out quite close, in free air as they're measured.  As soon as you put them in an enclosure that could change drastically as that enclosure changes the environment they're working in and those tiny differences in the parameters can make big differences in the response from one enclosure to the other.

 

Maybe this is more of the explanation you're looking for?

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yes thank you everyone youve all been alot of help im just trying to learn

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