Ultracaps are they worth it?

[shizzzon 461]

You are wanting to use it as reserve.. we keep telling you batteries are cheaper for that purpose.

Actually, batts are cheaper period even for burst.

Would you buy a lamborghini to drive in city traffic just because it has the potential of going fast but you, ll never see it compared to a toyota which can easily obtain the same speed you will be driving anyways for much less?

[grumby13 3]

no if 1 ah is 300f at 12v

that would mean a 100ah battery is 30'000F which is means a battery is great for reserve power, but you are giving up reserve power for charge rate. with a battery it can't charge and discharge at the same time that is where a bank of caps shine. there are claims that a bank of 1 or 2 caps are 1db louder then a bank of batteries

this is a formula that was calculated out for 1 bank of 6caps. 1 joule can produce 1 watt at 1 second.

So, let's say we have a bank of (6) black ones. That's 15v/433F.
433/2 = 216.5
15x15 = 225
216.5x225 = 48,712.5 joules
 

Edited October 17, 2013 by grumby13

[bhsdriller 24]

idk but there's people burping a lot of power with little voltage drop using them

Like 16k clamped not even dropping a volt on a full tilt burp

 

I have a friend that has 2 banks in his daily ride

 

Edit: tommyk90's s10....said 12k+ dropping from 14.9 to 14.3v

It's worth it for burps

Edited October 17, 2013 by Tim Harmening

[grumby13 3]

the caps charge about 2 times as fast and they charge and discahrge as the same time but a conventional battery can only charge or discharge not at the same time

[grumby13 3]

idk but there's people burping a lot of power with little voltage drop using them

Like 16k clamped not even dropping a volt on a full tilt burp

 

I have a friend that has 2 banks in his daily ride

 

Edit: tommyk90's s10....said 12k+ dropping from 14.9 to 14.3v

It's worth it for burps

was that stock alt or a h.o

[shizzzon 461]

Dude.. you do not know what you are talking about.. 

 

I researched this for months... MONTHS. There was a LARGE thread on Caco about this and it died off because real world testing showed it to be invaluable in all sorts of configurations.

 

I was even on the phone with Maxwell and iOxus about this stuff.

 

If all you want to do is burps only.. then sure, go buy a bunch of used, LOWER THAN RATED, caps.  Just like batts, caps lose their output potential.

 

Next, caps aren't twice as fast as charging, lol...

 

Caps do not charge like batteries.  Caps charge and discharge rate is solely dependent on the voltage different between the cap and the source connected to it.

 

 

You can go through all the formulas and all that.. That's good, possible, if the caps were new.  

 

Then we are talking $75 shipped a pop.

 

 

It is a scientific fact that batteries store more reserve per $1 than UCs do.

 

If you want to mix batts and UCs together in parallel, i hope you have plenty of Electrical knowledge because if the voltage difference is just 0.01v difference in the line, you better be wearing some highly insulated clothing.

 

And in real world testing, not a single test has confirmed mixing UCs series'd to 13v paralleled with batteries showed any performance increase whatsoever.

 

We have a guy here who just sold his.

 

He was running 2 300A alts and 96, yes, NINETY SIX UCs.  

 

The only reason why he didn't use any batteries is because his alternator system could supply most of the demand while the UCs were there just as a buffer.  If he didn't have the alts to do it.. he would have need probably about 300 UCs.  You wanna fork out that kinda money, go right ahead.

 

Trying to save you time and money.

 

You didn't just find the source for secret power that's going to save you money..  It's going to empty you out financially, but some people have to learn for themselves so if you must own them.. then go right ahead and buy as many as you want.

 

I'd highly suggest contacting Maxwell first because some of the wording and ideas you believe on how these work isn't true and you need more knowledge.

[grumby13 3]

I know 3 people who use them one uses for music and the other uses for burps the one on burp has a stock alt one bat up front and the rest is ucs he is pulling a 150+ on burps on 2 15 or 18s can't remember since he changed recently

[///M5 2,833]

I know 3 people who use them one uses for music and the other uses for burps the one on burp has a stock alt one bat up front and the rest is ucs he is pulling a 150+ on burps on 2 15 or 18s can't remember since he changed recently

And I've seen people use nunchuks for chopsticks. Doesn't mean it makes them good at being chopsticks. Pretty obvious from your other posts to that your sources of information are seriously flawed and misleading.

[grumby13 3]

Ron of team dbaddicts burps with them. And the other guy who plays music with the is Larry gentry

[neo_styles 43]

I think you guys assume ultracaps function in the same manner as a traditional AGM or lead-acid battery. They don't. You're talking about an extremely low ESR with ultracaps that batteries can't come close to. This translates directly to a MUCH faster charge/discharge state. Second, traditional batteries must be charged to rest at a particular voltage and, due to basic chemistry, will constantly be in a push-pull relationship with either its charging or discharging state (affectionately known as "battery memory" and especially prominent in AGMs). Ultracaps assume equilibrium with whatever source they're connected to within a matter of MILLISECONDS. This is why they're inherently dangerous in a CA environment since it might as well be a damn requirement to introduce a slow charging circuit to account for this. If you didn't you run the risk of either blowing your ultracaps on the spot or vaporizing whatever link you use to establish the connection.

 

On a somewhat humorous side note, this is exactly why our electricians are required to insulate any tool longer than 6 inches when going into our battery wells (giant AGM bank). If those two ends bridged a battery connection, they would vaporize instantly and make a nice BANG.

 

Now I'd like to address some information I found above (answered in red):

Dude.. you do not know what you are talking about.. 

 

I researched this for months... MONTHS. There was a LARGE thread on Caco about this and it died off because real world testing showed it to be invaluable in all sorts of configurations.

Just because you've seen it done, doesn't mean it was done properly. There needs to be planning, care, thought, and proper application for this to have any benefit.

I was even on the phone with Maxwell and iOxus about this stuff.

 

If all you want to do is burps only.. then sure, go buy a bunch of used, LOWER THAN RATED, caps.  Just like batts, caps lose their output potential.

Except you're talking about a much faster number of charge/discharge cycles until failure for an ultracaps vs traditional batteries. Talking about a difference of hudnreds of thousands of charge cycles worth of difference.

Next, caps aren't twice as fast as charging, lol...

Correct. They're not twice as fast, they're damn near instantaneous. Electrolytic capacitors don't require the same amount of delay to establish electron production through the charge/discharge equation. They also don't have to deal with sulfation which diminishes an AGM battery's capacity over time if not dealt with regular float charges.

Caps do not charge like batteries.  Caps charge and discharge rate is solely dependent on the voltage different between the cap and the source connected to it.

It's not dependent on voltage. Capacitors charge and discharge to establish equilibrium to whatever circuit they're attached. It's the ESR that will determine charge and discharge time and be the key difference in explaining ramp time.

 

You can go through all the formulas and all that.. That's good, possible, if the caps were new.  

 

Then we are talking $75 shipped a pop.

 

 

It is a scientific fact that batteries store more reserve per $1 than UCs do.

If you're going to say it's a scientific fact, you're doing yourself a tremendous disservice not providing said facts. Especially when capacities between ultracaps and batteries are provided in entirely separate units.

If you want to mix batts and UCs together in parallel, i hope you have plenty of Electrical knowledge because if the voltage difference is just 0.01v difference in the line, you better be wearing some highly insulated clothing.

A bit sensational, don't you think? You can end up with 0.01V potentials simply due to the quality of the electrical connection itself. Bus bar and link material alone can provide this potential. Take away a couple decimal points as, realistically, within a difference of 1V, you're in the clear here.

And in real world testing, not a single test has confirmed mixing UCs series'd to 13v paralleled with batteries showed any performance increase whatsoever.

Pray, tell, how do you end up with a 13V load out of ultracaps in series with a traditional battery? They don't come in voltage capacities capable of being linked up to 13V.

We have a guy here who just sold his.

 

He was running 2 300A alts and 96, yes, NINETY SIX UCs.  

Unless he was running solar panels connected to his vehicle by a tow hitch, he was FAR past the point of diminishing return.

The only reason why he didn't use any batteries is because his alternator system could supply most of the demand while the UCs were there just as a buffer.  If he didn't have the alts to do it.. he would have need probably about 300 UCs.  You wanna fork out that kinda money, go right ahead.

 

Trying to save you time and money.

 

You didn't just find the source for secret power that's going to save you money..  It's going to empty you out financially, but some people have to learn for themselves so if you must own them.. then go right ahead and buy as many as you want.

 

I'd highly suggest contacting Maxwell first because some of the wording and ideas you believe on how these work isn't true and you need more knowledge.

I would concur with this statement. Not aimed at you, this time, but for all users in general. Proper use of ultracaps requires knowledge in basic electrical principles at a MINIMUM.

 

Now I'll reitorate. One of my car audio mentors has been running a single bank of 6 ultracaps as a secondary battery in his Accord for the better part of six months now with ZERO issues. Taylor from Team Tantric has observed a significantly smaller voltage drop when driving high-power amplifiers are 0.5 and 0.25 ohms on reactive loads during his clamp tests. More information on both cases are located in my linked thread.

 

Again...**DISCLAIMER**...do not rush out and buy a bank of six ultracaps and go willy nilly into your car and either replace your starter or add a bank in the back just so you can stay within USACI rules. Doing an upgrade like this requires a good deal of research to ensure you're continuously operating a system like this within safe tolerances. Capacitor failure can be as simple as a popped top and electrolyte everywhere to a more...explosive reaction. Caveat emptor on this one. Definitely not for everybody.

[grumby13 3]

i was reading a forum thread that someone was actually testing ultracaps in CA in three different system but seems like at the end one the thread or the last page of that thread no results were posted just someone at the end said that his results should be on par due to his back ground.

i manily just do your local dbdrag bass race and top dog here in the tri state area have not gotten far enough to do usaci or any comps that high level

Edited October 18, 2013 by grumby13

[pmureika 31]

i was reading a forum thread that someone was actually testing ultracaps in CA in three different system but seems like at the end one the thread or the last page of that thread no results were posted just someone at the end said that his results should be on par due to his back ground.

i manily just do your local dbdrag bass race and top dog here in the tri state area have not gotten far enough to do usaci or any comps that high level

There are so many choices out there.

 

That bc2000d with a couple of good 15" subs and good electrical will put you near 150db.

[grumby13 3]

i know that is why i need the power i have a lead acid up front and a duralast platinum 34r in the back and only get a 141.4 at peak at 35 or 36hz but what is killing me is my box size it's about 3.57 after port displacement and the subs require or want 2cu ft per chamber. i will be trying to get a single 15, im either going to get an IA dp 15 d1 or a IA judge 15 d1 i want to find a dealer near me to help would like to pair it up with an IA amp either a IA10.1 or IA 20.1 depends on what would be a good match with either of the subs but also have head room for down the road to upgrade

[pmureika 31]

My point is if you already have that crescendo amp why not use it?

 

A IA amp won't be any louder paired with the right sub.

[grumby13 3]

i want to do a all one company setup idk i think it's cool that way it crescendo made subwoofers then i would stick with them

[grumby13 3]

quick question where would i post a question about box building

[pmureika 31]

Try here.  http://www.soundsolutionsaudio.com/forum/forum/28-spl-sq-fabrication/

[grumby13 3]

flipping a forgot what i was going to ask

[grumby13 3]

here is a youtube video of the yukon that only runs ultracaps

 

http://youtu.be/tyYtqBcO1vM