1 X10 Vs 2 SA-8 V.2 on 1000w RMS

[sabydady 0]

Hi, I am debating on which of these two setups to use, im going for either 1 10 or 2 8 and its down to the x10 vs 2 sa8-v2. Both setups would be with 1000w rms. The two sa-8 v2 would be on 1.2 cf net enclosure tuned to 35hz and the x10 would be on the recomended enclosure. I am looking for an overall good and loud set up that works for all types of music, From Salsa to Hip Hop.

 

Let me know what you all think.

 

Thanks in advance

[neo_styles 43]

Honestly, I wouldn't recommend either, but then again, this is a SSA forum. 1K for a single 10" GCON or ICON would probably suit you better. Spec-wise the ICON and X aren't that far off from each other.

[jcarter1885 995]

Honestly, I wouldn't recommend either, but then again, this is a SSA forum. 1K for a single 10" GCON or ICON would probably suit you better. Spec-wise the ICON and X aren't that far off from each other.

So its SSA or nothing?

OP if those are you two choices go with the X-10".

[pmureika 31]

jay-cee, on 24 Oct 2013 - 15:43, said:

neo_styles, on 24 Oct 2013 - 15:22, said:

Honestly, I wouldn't recommend either, but then again, this is a SSA forum. 1K for a single 10" GCON or ICON would probably suit you better. Spec-wise the ICON and X aren't that far off from each other.

So its SSA or nothing?

OP if those are you two choices go with the X-10".

Why?

The original post is 1 x-10 vs 2 sa8 v.2

Edited October 24, 2013 by pmureika

[neo_styles 43]

Honestly, I wouldn't recommend either, but then again, this is a SSA forum. 1K for a single 10" GCON or ICON would probably suit you better. Spec-wise the ICON and X aren't that far off from each other.

So its SSA or nothing?

OP if those are you two choices go with the X-10".

Not that it's SSA or nothing, but I wouldn't recommend either of those subwoofers when you have a similarly-priced option that will perform better on the power he has to give over a broader range of music.

[pmureika 31]

 

Honestly, I wouldn't recommend either, but then again, this is a SSA forum. 1K for a single 10" GCON or ICON would probably suit you better. Spec-wise the ICON and X aren't that far off from each other.

So its SSA or nothing?

OP if those are you two choices go with the X-10".

Not that it's SSA or nothing, but I wouldn't recommend either of those subwoofers when you have a similarly-priced option that will perform better on the power he has to give over a broader range of music.

I would agree with that.

[sabydady 0]

I have modeled the x10 vs the ICON under recomended specs and the only thing I can see the ICON do better is be louder on frequencies above 100hz. Usually I cut my highs at 140hz 12db/octave so I dont know if I will notice a "dead" spot between 100-140hz, I can allways equalize to get a better response on those frequencies.  

 

Quality wise which subwoofer would you consider better?  I also see that you have left out the two SA-8 v2. Although I dont get better low end from the 8" I do get a smoother response. 

[Shogen 325]

American made vs overseas. Sundown is a great company.

[sabydady 0]

I don't discriminate between products manufactured overseas over in USA. Because its manufactured in china doesn't mean it was designed in china and it will a lesser quality product, a good example, Iphones.

 

Getting back to the discussion, I cant really see why the ICON 10 would cost so much when the RE audio SX10 is practically the same thing and the SX10 can be found way cheaper.

 

I am also considering the option of using a IDMAX 10 V.4

[Aaron Clinton 2,372]

I don't discriminate between products manufactured overseas over in USA. Because its manufactured in china doesn't mean it was designed in china and it will a lesser quality product, a good example, Iphones.

Getting back to the discussion, I cant really see why the ICON 10 would cost so much when the RE audio SX10 is practically the same thing and the SX10 can be found way cheaper.

I am also considering the option of using a IDMAX 10 V.4

I will simply reply that the SX10 is not the same thing, sorry. The Icon motor is machined here in the USA with spiral axis cooling with USA steel. The SX cannot remotely say that. That alone is more than enough difference as to why the Icon costs more and is the better choice. RE is a cheaply built overseas copy of what it used to be. Now if you said original Icon from 2007 and old special order USA made RE SX Hybrid, then you are closer.

BUT!!!! That is off topic, back to the originally asked X10 / SA-8's on the same power. As I have not heard them head to head, it is difficult to give an experienced reply, doubt many outside of the Sundown HQ has tested the SA-8 head to head on the X10 since the X series is so new. Anyway, all things equal in proper enclosures, I personally will pick the option of more cone area and less power compression, meaning in this case the pair of SA-8's. Because even though the coil in the SA is smaller than the coil in the X, it is still the combined coil surface and cooling of the motors, and even though an X10 has more area than a single SA8, the pair of SA8's combined have more swept cone area. So to stay on topic and give an educated guess on the initial question at hand, I would lean towards the SA-8's.

[Notorious97200 339]

IDMAX are still available ? Sure ?
Sundown and SSA,both make great products, and have great customer service.

I don't really like 8" subs But you should try to compare subs wih the same dimensions.
 

From all of those subs, I've only tried the SSA Icon, and I found it amazing.

2 8" subs(ported)  won't  take less room than a single 10" ported. I might be wrong...I've never tried setups like that.

[///M5 2,833]

I don't discriminate between products manufactured overseas over in USA. Because its manufactured in china doesn't mean it was designed in china and it will a lesser quality product, a good example, Iphones.

Young skywalker you make judgements very incorrectly. The Iphone is manufactured not by a Chinese company but by Apple in China. There is a huge difference between owning a plant and controlling your own quality and farming out labor. HUGE. And yes, I've been in both sorts of plants. One makes me want to puke, the other almost feels like it is here.

You should highly discern where things are manufactured.

Of course, this doesn't actually address the biggest difference either. Most Chinese manufactured things in this domain are parts bin specials. Low volume manufacturing does NOT allow for design, but only slapping together off the shelf components that aren't optimized for anything. When things are manufactured here and designed here that isn't usually the case. Of course you can have the same, but when a manufacturer actually employs engineering you can end up with a product that will do what it was designed to do, versus a product that does what it is slapped together to do.

[Randal Johnson 544]

 

I have modeled the x10 vs the ICON under recomended specs and the only thing I can see the ICON do better is be louder on frequencies above 100hz. Usually I cut my highs at 140hz 12db/octave so I dont know if I will notice a "dead" spot between 100-140hz,

Why would you cut your mid bass drivers so high and try and make your sub drivers pick up the slack ???

Average cut off for a sub bass driver is 70 htz ...  

[Randal Johnson 544]

I am also considering the option of using a IDMAX 10 V.4

IDMAX are still available ? Sure ?

I'm not sure about the IDMAX, but ID had a manufacturer's booth this year at finals ...

I asked the same question when I seen it Notorious ... and their demo vehicle was really impressive !!!

[sabydady 0]

I don't discriminate between products manufactured overseas over in USA. Because its manufactured in china doesn't mean it was designed in china and it will a lesser quality product, a good example, Iphones.

Young skywalker you make judgements very incorrectly. The Iphone is manufactured not by a Chinese company but by Apple in China. There is a huge difference between owning a plant and controlling your own quality and farming out labor. HUGE. And yes, I've been in both sorts of plants. One makes me want to puke, the other almost feels like it is here.You should highly discern where things are manufactured.Of course, this doesn't actually address the biggest difference either. Most Chinese manufactured things in this domain are parts bin specials. Low volume manufacturing does NOT allow for design, but only slapping together off the shelf components that aren't optimized for anything. When things are manufactured here and designed here that isn't usually the case. Of course you can have the same, but when a manufacturer actually employs engineering you can end up with a product that will do what it was designed to do, versus a product that does what it is slapped together to do.

I understand your point, although not all companies just glue parts together in china, some design in the states and build in china. Same example applies, Apple. Apple doesnt own any manufacturing plant in china, it just works with Foxconn that does own manufacturing plants.

About the part about cutting my mids at 140, I dont see the problem why a sub cant play 100hz, have you noticed how bose subs play mid bass and not a lot of people are bothered by it.

Im really leaning towards the single 10" setup but there are quite a lot of options to choose from, I do want to have a good amount of low end thats why I was going with the x10, ive also considered the dd 2510, IDMAX, JL W7, Alpine type X but budget wise the x10 seems like a better option, sound quality wise it would probably go down to IDMAX and W7

[Guest Warlocked]

spam

Edited October 25, 2013 by Aaron Clinton

[///M5 2,833]

I don't discriminate between products manufactured overseas over in USA. Because its manufactured in china doesn't mean it was designed in china and it will a lesser quality product, a good example, Iphones.

Young skywalker you make judgements very incorrectly. The Iphone is manufactured not by a Chinese company but by Apple in China. There is a huge difference between owning a plant and controlling your own quality and farming out labor. HUGE. And yes, I've been in both sorts of plants. One makes me want to puke, the other almost feels like it is here.You should highly discern where things are manufactured.Of course, this doesn't actually address the biggest difference either. Most Chinese manufactured things in this domain are parts bin specials. Low volume manufacturing does NOT allow for design, but only slapping together off the shelf components that aren't optimized for anything. When things are manufactured here and designed here that isn't usually the case. Of course you can have the same, but when a manufacturer actually employs engineering you can end up with a product that will do what it was designed to do, versus a product that does what it is slapped together to do.

I understand your point, although not all companies just glue parts together in china, some design in the states and build in china. Same example applies, Apple. Apple doesnt own any manufacturing plant in china, it just works with Foxconn that does own manufacturing plants.

About the part about cutting my mids at 140, I dont see the problem why a sub cant play 100hz, have you noticed how bose subs play mid bass and not a lot of people are bothered by it.

Im really leaning towards the single 10" setup but there are quite a lot of options to choose from, I do want to have a good amount of low end thats why I was going with the x10, ive also considered the dd 2510, IDMAX, JL W7, Alpine type X but budget wise the x10 seems like a better option, sound quality wise it would probably go down to IDMAX and W7

Apple COMPLETELY controls their manufacturing. For instance, Skar does NONE. Yet you claim the same. They are way different. And yes, in two weeks I will be in China visiting manufacturing plants. I am very familiar.

[///M5 2,833]

Oh, and Bose is something laughable if you want to copy them. Fucking awful.

[gprestonmoto 89]

Eric designed the v1,2, and 3 of the IDMAX. No clue what the story is on the new ones, but I have found Eric to be one of the friendliest, and hard-working industry. I'll only use the older ones. Once he left, so did I.

[neo_styles 43]

Eric designed the v1,2, and 3 of the IDMAX. No clue what the story is on the new ones, but I have found Eric to be one of the friendliest, and hard-working industry. I'll only use the older ones. Once he left, so did I.

The new MAX, much like the new IDQ that's in the works, are new designs. Eric did not release rights to produce a new line, so they're doing their best to improve on the previous design's flaws (such as miniscule tolerance between the coil and the magnet that led to notorious shifted pole and rub problems). Be on the lookout for a shallow IDQ soon as well as that's what their current designer has been talking about working on.

 

OP, based on the subs you're looking at, I feel you have a lot more research to be done. I see mainstream brand, mainstream brand, DD (still a mainstream brand IMO), and Sundown (which is also becoming a mainstream brand). You may think this is insignificant, but examining the big picture, that means that their production line has to ramp up to meet demand. Expect quality control to go along with it (as evidenced by stocks of X subs arriving to the US with unglued surrounds).

 

Look to see what's really out there and I think you'll understand why we here at SSA have a slightly bitter taste in our mouth for when people address Sundown as being the superior choice when put against other competitors that we happen to use.

[sabydady 0]

wow, I was tempted to buy the ICON 10" untill i saw 21+ days to build the product. Anyone had experience with orders and how long it actually took to arrive?

[ramteid 17]

wow, I was tempted to buy the ICON 10" untill i saw 21+ days to build the product. Anyone had experience with orders and how long it actually took to arrive?

I think my buddies icon took around 25 business days for hi to get it. My zcon took like 30 or so but they had ran out of materials. It is definitely worth the wait. Also, by them no building it until its ordered helps keep cost down and remember that through the ssa site they have shipping already added into the cost.

[nem 2,019]

wow, I was tempted to buy the ICON 10" untill i saw 21+ days to build the product. Anyone had experience with orders and how long it actually took to arrive?

I would not let the build time influence your decision. The wait is well worth it in the end. I have bought several SSAand Fi subs and never once thought said boy the wait time in not worth it.

[sabydady 0]

Im probably going with the ICON 10 mostly because of mounting depth. In the designs there isnt that much difference in output or frequency response except for the x10 between all the options, but the box wont have that much depth so the x10 or IDMAX or w7 wont fit in it. I was remembering when I bought two dd 9512 I did have to wait over a month to get it so I'll just hang on and start on the box while I wait for it.

I was comparing the ICON to the RE SX10 and after looking closely there is one obvious difference that screams cheap from the RE and thats the coil leads. Not woven into the spider just hanging there to create distortion and eventually brake.

Another question, Has anyone bottomed out the ICON 10 under very low frequencies ~20hz at full power? Is there enough clearance in the motor to handle the excursion at near free air frequencies?

[pmureika 31]

Push any sub beyond it's limits and you will cause damage.