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TheGr33nNinja

First car, desiring first sub

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What is the SSF (sub sonic frequency) set to on your amp? If your box is trully tuned to 29Hz, then your SSF should be within a couple Hz probably not lower than 25Hz?

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Sometimes having the sub a little closer to the trunk lid helps with the 'impact' smile.png

Thanks for the tip.  Impact is good stuff. smile.png

 

what are the specs on the enclosure? what size sub? what amp? bass boost off? how did you set the gains?

I took it to a shop and told the guy to build the box to 1.75 cubes.  I'm thinking I maybe should have told him as big a box as he could build.

 

The sub is a 10" running off a Sundown 1500 amp, not sure what you mean about bass boost because the only thing i'd consider boosting my bass would be setting my car bass EQ up a little higher.  If I turn the bass knob down with the clipping light on it there's literally no bass. haha

 

And I didn't set anything, I picked it up from the shop and they told me they set everything up for me and that it was good to go.

 

I could take some more pics later and post them up if it'd help.

yea take some pictures. And if you can take some measurements of the enclosure and port. Sometimes (most iv been to) shops don't really know to much lol

 

Here's some pictures.

 

I'm starting to think the shop didn't know what they're doing.  My sub seems to only "hit" on certain frequencies.  Can't play high pitch bass at alllll, even really low pitch like in decaf tunes it doesn't hit to where I can feel it.

 

Here's the measurements I took.  I've been busy lately with work

 

It's slightly above 15 long (about 15.2 ins)

24 inches wide

and a little more than 14 inches tall. (about 14.4 ins)

 

The port is 12.6 ins tall

and 1.6 ins wide

 

How does this sound for the sub and my desires to have a hitting sub?

 

 

Sometimes having the sub a little closer to the trunk lid helps with the 'impact' smile.png

Thanks for the tip.  Impact is good stuff. smile.png

 

what are the specs on the enclosure? what size sub? what amp? bass boost off? how did you set the gains? 

I took it to a shop and told the guy to build the box to 1.75 cubes.  I'm thinking I maybe should have told him as big a box as he could build.

 

The sub is a 10" running off a Sundown 1500 amp, not sure what you mean about bass boost because the only thing i'd consider boosting my bass would be setting my car bass EQ up a little higher.  If I turn the bass knob down with the clipping light on it there's literally no bass. haha

 

And I didn't set anything, I picked it up from the shop and they told me they set everything up for me and that it was good to go.

 

I could take some more pics later and post them up if it'd help.

 

 

we would need to know dimensions of the box to say if there is a problem with it. 

 

all EQ or bass boost should be set to flat or zero. what you're calling the bass knob is a gain knob for the sundown amp. sounds like the amp isn't set up correctly. or the EQ your messing with is confusing you. 

 

I posted the dimensions above.  I measured as accurately as I could.  Made sure to double check.

 

I noticed it looks like the bass boost may actually be turned up.  If so, I do believe I should turn it down like you said.  I never would have known.  I just assumed they knew what they were doing.

 

I hope the pictures help to see if it looks right.  I set my eq bass to 0 and it helped a little bit with the clipping, but I still clip out when I try to get it to hit.

 

Any chance you can turn the sub and port up? Give that a try, unless it wont fit that way.

I'm not sure if the wiring would allow for that.  And the box is pretty secure. :/  But i'll give it a try and see if I can lift it and flip it back without damaging it if the box allows.

 

What is the SSF (sub sonic frequency) set to on your amp? If your box is trully tuned to 29Hz, then your SSF should be within a couple Hz probably not lower than 25Hz?

I posted up a pic of exactly how my amp is set.  I hope that helps.  It's the best I can do.  Sorry for it being tilted, it still looks legible though.

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First I would put your phase to 0. And bass boost down

Edited by frogcase2002

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I've got more pictures, I can't post them until I get back to my laptop though.

So I've found something out. I orginally thought I'd want an "SQL" setup with heavy focus on SQ. Well, I was wrong. I want an SPL setup. Unless my amp is totally jacked up and I have to figure out how to set the gain, my sub does not shake the car like I want it to. My girlfriend even said (after I put on some loud dubstep) "wow, I forgot we even had a sub" after that I was all "wow, this sub is like nonexistent now" it only comes alive if I blast at like 70% volume. And even then it's not crazy loud, you just know there's a sub there.

Clipping is pretty nonexistent though. I will say that. I only get it now if I put the bass gain knob all the way up and blast at 70%. Before it'd start clipping at like 43%! The bass control knob not even turned near all the way up! :o

That bass boost was turned way up on the amp. I really had to crank it back down. Phase not so much. What does phase do?

Either my expectations were way too high, or I'm doing something wrong here. If in order to make my car shake and feel the bass I have to turn it up all the way, let me know. Problem is, my components are so loud I can't handle it. xD

They are overpowering the sub in my opinion. I'm quite the bass addict, I guess.

If I had the time I'm almost comtemplating making a video.

I don't mean to diss the sub in any way shape or form if it seems that way. I more am just attempting to express my feelings with my experience here and hopefully receive assistance in how to be satisfied with my quest to copious amounts of bass.

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Is the sub moving a lot but your not getting good output or does it seem like its not even getting much power?

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Maybe I missed the info, but how is the audio reaching the amps? Head unit with RCA or line output converter? What head unit do you have?

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Is the sub moving a lot but your not getting good output or does it seem like its not even getting much power?

This

Otherwise you might just have a particularly bad case of the bass bug lol

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I'd love to know more about the enclosure design myself.  Just from the measurements on the port it seems a little skimpy on port area.  Couple with that the fact you can't be positive what the enclosure is tuned to I'm wondering if the enclosure is anywhere near what you asked for.

 

 

Do me a favor.  Drop in a set of test tones.  Set it to 50hz and turn it up enough to see the sub moving a fair bit and start going down through the tones to the supposed 29hz tuning.  At 29hz the sub should barely even be moving.  If it looks like it's barely moving at any other frequency THAT is what it is tuned to, not 29hz or whatever you requested from the shop.  Couple that with settings on the amp that may not be quite right and you've got the issues you're having right now.  Reference THIS post as to setting the SSF for your application as well.

 

I have the same sub on the same amp in my Jimmy in a passive radiator type enclosure setup which is all setup more for SQ than SPL and it gets plenty loud and shakes plenty of stuff in the truck.  It's definitely not so quiet that a person could say "I forgot we had the sub in here."  Hell it flat scared the crap out of one of the guys who I demoed it for.

 

You very well could just have the bass bug and need more but that sub and amp combination should be giving prodigious amounts of bass to you.

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New settings along with setup.  Battery pic

Is the sub moving a lot but your not getting good output or does it seem like its not even getting much power?

 

With consulting from my girlfriend, we concluded it seems like it's not getting enough power.  I agreed with her.  And the sub is moving, i'm just not sure on how much excursion is considered moving a lot.  Which is why when i'm free from work, I plan on taking some footage.  I work weekends though so I will do my best to squeeze in the time.

Maybe I missed the info, but how is the audio reaching the amps? Head unit with RCA or line output converter? What head unit do you have?

 

I have a stock head unit.  I drive a Ford Focus Titanium and the headunit is already touch screen so I didn't wanna mess with any of that.  So I can't say specifically because they didn't talk to me about this, but whatever is stock, that's all I can say is how it's reaching the amp.

 

My stock headunit setup is very similar to this, so it was hard for me to want to mess with the housing and all that.  Not sure what my options are.  I just found this image on google images real quick.

 

Is the sub moving a lot but your not getting good output or does it seem like its not even getting much power?

This



Otherwise you might just have a particularly bad case of the bass bug lol

 

I may have the bass bug! 

 

Question, what kind of setup do you have to have where you drive in front of a house and shake that houses windows?  That's something I've always been fascinated with.  That, and when you can hear someone's bass from a block away.

 

I'd love to know more about the enclosure design myself.  Just from the measurements on the port it seems a little skimpy on port area.  Couple with that the fact you can't be positive what the enclosure is tuned to I'm wondering if the enclosure is anywhere near what you asked for.

 

 

Do me a favor.  Drop in a set of test tones.  Set it to 50hz and turn it up enough to see the sub moving a fair bit and start going down through the tones to the supposed 29hz tuning.  At 29hz the sub should barely even be moving.  If it looks like it's barely moving at any other frequency THAT is what it is tuned to, not 29hz or whatever you requested from the shop.  Couple that with settings on the amp that may not be quite right and you've got the issues you're having right now.  Reference THIS post as to setting the SSF for your application as well.

 

I have the same sub on the same amp in my Jimmy in a passive radiator type enclosure setup which is all setup more for SQ than SPL and it gets plenty loud and shakes plenty of stuff in the truck.  It's definitely not so quiet that a person could say "I forgot we had the sub in here."  Hell it flat scared the crap out of one of the guys who I demoed it for.

 

You very well could just have the bass bug and need more but that sub and amp combination should be giving prodigious amounts of bass to you.

I'm hoping the enclosure is near what I asked for, but like you said, there's no way to be sure.  I gave the measurements to the best of my ability.  Unless half an inch makes all the difference, I know I was pretty accurate.

 

As for the test tones, I don't have those on deck, so if I can't find them on YouTube, i'll google them and try and download some unless there's a common source known.

Thanks for the link by the way.  I'll check it out.

 

Nice sub setup by the way!  I really want a setup where you can't forget you have sub in the back.  With mine, unfortunately, you forget all the time unless you start blasting it.  And even then it's like you just wanna boost the subs power somehow.

Before I turned those two settings down on the amp it was fairly satisfactory, but it clipped too much.  Now it hardly clips, but just seems quiet. xD

 

As for the bassbug, i'm not going to lie, i'm already contemplating upgrading my setup.  Whether that be running two subs, or getting a bigger box...something.  Because I took my girlfriend saying "I forgot we even had a sub in here" personally.  Made me feel like my setup isn't satisfactory. xD

Don't get us wrong though.  She was very satisfied with it before, now she's just all "you turned the amp down". haha

 

So I've now changed my ways...I shall switch to SPL in my next setup, and see how satisfactory that is. (:<

 

Must be this bass bug everyone speaks of. lol

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mite have to do with whatever converter they used. Or also could be how they wired it inside the enclosure. Maybe wired to 4 ohm instead of 1 ohm. Do you have a dmm (digital multimeter)

. . You forsure should never be thinking there is not a sub back there having that sub and amp. I wouldn't think about upgrading yet. I would figure out what's wrong with your current setup first

Edited by frogcase2002

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Don't expect too much out of a 10" ! But you should feel it, it should be loud enough to shake things in the car.

Something is wrong.

As someone said : are you sure the sub is not wired to 4 Ohms ? It could change the output a little bit ;-)

I saw the trunk, and thought you could fit a 15" easily in. A 15" Xcon in 3 ft3 sounds good : I had one like that, and I was pleased with it. they shine in sealed boxes too: 3ft3 sealed gives you a big and clean sound.

 

BTW don't forget you can recone the sub to any size (10, 12, 15, 18"), just in case. could be cheaper than getting a second one.

Those Xcons can be very loud : don't think you should change for a more spl-oriented sub, this one has good potential to satisfy you.

 

Good luck !

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mite have to do with whatever converter they used. Or also could be how they wired it inside the enclosure. Maybe wired to 4 ohm instead of 1 ohm. Do you have a dmm (digital multimeter)

. . You forsure should never be thinking there is not a sub back there having that sub and amp. I wouldn't think about upgrading yet. I would figure out what's wrong with your current setup first

Is there an easy way to find out if they wired it correctly? I had forgotten about that. If it's not wired to 1ohm that'd be a problem.

Also, is upgrading the converter expensive? If I'm missing some essential upgrades to a setup, I'd heavily consider getting them installed, but if my settings and setup are just messed up, I'd really like to see whats wrong. As you stated.

And no, I don't have a dmm. Whats that?

Thanks for the help, man. I'm not the best with this, as you can tell, but I'm trying to see whats going on! I've always wanted a nice impressive setup.

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Don't expect too much out of a 10" ! But you should feel it, it should be loud enough to shake things in the car.

Something is wrong.

As someone said : are you sure the sub is not wired to 4 Ohms ? It could change the output a little bit ;-)

I saw the trunk, and thought you could fit a 15" easily in. A 15" Xcon in 3 ft3 sounds good : I had one like that, and I was pleased with it. they shine in sealed boxes too: 3ft3 sealed gives you a big and clean sound.

BTW don't forget you can recone the sub to any size (10, 12, 15, 18"), just in case. could be cheaper than getting a second one.

Those Xcons can be very loud : don't think you should change for a more spl-oriented sub, this one has good potential to satisfy you.

Good luck !

Thanks for that, man!!

It's becoming really apparent the sub and amp aren't my issue. It's the setup!

I wish there was a way to find a reliable shop

xD I went from shop to shop and eliminated a few, maybe I didn't look hard enough.

However, I think I really have to find out what my sub is wired to. What scared me is when I bought the sub I ordered a dual2 to wire it to 1 ohm, but on the box they circled the dual1 ohm when I know you'd need two subs to wire it in at 1 ohm. It scared me initially, but with the hype of finally waiting a month to receive it I got it installed and it slipped my mind to ask about the wiring. Major fail. I'd convinced myself, along with my girlfriend convincing me, that maybe they were just in a rush and circled the wrong box. It's becoming more and more clear maaaaaaybe they didn't.

As for saying I could of got a 15", aaaaah, cmon, man. Don't tell me that. I so would of. xD

I still would of wanted to get it ported though, because if there's potential for more output a certain way, it's mandatory I'd have to go that way.

I'll also keep in mind I can recone the sub to a bigger size. Thanks for that. I didn't know that. If worst comes to worst, I now have another option instead of buying new equipment.

Thanks again, Notorious. I'm trying to really unleash this sub. I'm hitting roadblocks right now, but I'm glad to hear of the potential. Thanks!

So quick question, I may have some free time this weekend. Would you advise going back to the shop and asking some questions about my setup? Especially about this wiring fiasco!

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mite have to do with whatever converter they used. Or also could be how they wired it inside the enclosure. Maybe wired to 4 ohm instead of 1 ohm. Do you have a dmm (digital multimeter)

. . You forsure should never be thinking there is not a sub back there having that sub and amp. I wouldn't think about upgrading yet. I would figure out what's wrong with your current setup first

Is there an easy way to find out if they wired it correctly? I had forgotten about that. If it's not wired to 1ohm that'd be a problem.

Also, is upgrading the converter expensive? If I'm missing some essential upgrades to a setup, I'd heavily consider getting them installed, but if my settings and setup are just messed up, I'd really like to see whats wrong. As you stated.

And no, I don't have a dmm. Whats that?

Thanks for the help, man. I'm not the best with this, as you can tell, but I'm trying to see whats going on! I've always wanted a nice impressive setup.

A dmm is a digital multimeter. You can get them for like 20 bucks at walmart and lots of other places. Its a really good idea to have one When your into audio. It reads volts and ohms and other things depending on which one you get. .

Mite not need to upgrade whatever converter you have they mite have just not set it right

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Your going to want to take the sub out and see how its wired and check the ohm load. . . . And figure out what converter is installed and where its at

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Almost all of these issues I've read is why I can't and won't support my local audio shops....seems like they must all be the same.  Over charging man hours only to wire things completely wrong, build boxes cheaply, massively screw up H/U paramaters and Amp tuning...etc.   I can't even stand to call them for advice knowing they are wrong most of the time...Too many times have I had to fix their mistakes from installs in friends vehicles, and a couple in my own, so I went ROUGE...LOL  They don't like me now, they tell me my brand of OFC cables are inferior, Hifonics amps suck, and that they have never heard of Fi Audio, just to quote a few...LMAO 

Edited by THX_Elite

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mite have to do with whatever converter they used. Or also could be how they wired it inside the enclosure. Maybe wired to 4 ohm instead of 1 ohm. Do you have a dmm (digital multimeter)

. . You forsure should never be thinking there is not a sub back there having that sub and amp. I wouldn't think about upgrading yet. I would figure out what's wrong with your current setup first

Is there an easy way to find out if they wired it correctly? I had forgotten about that. If it's not wired to 1ohm that'd be a problem.

Also, is upgrading the converter expensive? If I'm missing some essential upgrades to a setup, I'd heavily consider getting them installed, but if my settings and setup are just messed up, I'd really like to see whats wrong. As you stated.

And no, I don't have a dmm. Whats that?

Thanks for the help, man. I'm not the best with this, as you can tell, but I'm trying to see whats going on! I've always wanted a nice impressive setup.

A dmm is a digital multimeter. You can get them for like 20 bucks at walmart and lots of other places. Its a really good idea to have one When your into audio. It reads volts and ohms and other things depending on which one you get. .

Mite not need to upgrade whatever converter you have they mite have just not set it right

I'm on my phone again, so I will have to reply one by one here

Thanks for the advice, frog. I may as well pick one up. Once I figure out how to use it I'd submit the findings here. Are they pretty straight forward?

And as for setting the converter, how would I go about fixing that issue? I know nothing about this stuff. It sucks finding a trust worthy shop is so difficult.

Edited by TheGr33nNinja

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Your going to want to take the sub out and see how its wired and check the ohm load. . . . And figure out what converter is installed and where its at

You make it sound so easy. If I can find a video on it, I should be able to replicate the video. I've done this before regarding mechanics.

I just wouldn't wanna disassemble the sub then mess it up somehow reassembling it. xD

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if you have a Harbor Freight they have great multi meters at great prices also, and yes they are really simple to use, specially after a quick glance at the pamphlet that comes with them.    Changing the ohm load is as simple as could be, no disassembly required.  Here is a link to a good wiring diagram just in case you find that is part of the issue, which sounds likely.  http://a248.e.akamai.net/pix.crutchfield.com/ca/learningcenter/car/subwoofer_wiring/1-DVC-2-ohm-mono-low-imp.jpg

Edited by THX_Elite

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Almost all of these issues I've read is why I can't and won't support my local audio shops....seems like they must all be the same. Over charging man hours only to wire things completely wrong, build boxes cheaply, massively screw up H/U paramaters and Amp tuning...etc. I can't even stand to call them for advice knowing they are wrong most of the time...Too many times have I had to fix their mistakes from installs in friends vehicles, and a couple in my own, so I went ROUGE...LOL They don't like me now, they tell me my brand of OFC cables are inferior, Hifonics amps suck, and that they have never heard of Fi Audio, just to quote a few...LMAO

Dude, I was walking into shops and they hadn't heard of Sundown Audio, Fi Audio or SSA!! All the shops have is Kicker, Alpine, JL, Kenwood, Rockford, etc. It's annoying!

But good to hear we have a rogue free agent on the lose. I wish I had one of those around to fix this shop's issue. Haha

Whats funny is they act like they know everything.

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if you have a Harbor Freight they have great multi meters at great prices also, and yes they are really simple to use, specially after a quick glance at the pamphlet that comes with them. Here is a link to a good wiring diagram just in case you find that is part of the issue. http://www.crutchfield.com/S-BuKZLVUhlTK/learn/learningcenter/car/subwoofers_wiring.html

There is actually a harbor freight on the way home from my work. I can hit it up really quick if they're still open. Get this situation settled.

Thanks for that diagram by the way. I'm sure it will come in handy, THX.

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No problem!  Here is the specific wiring you need for your sub to lesson any confusion!

http://a248.e.akamai.net/pix.crutchfield.com/ca/learningcenter/car/subwoofer_wiring/1-DVC-2-ohm-mono-low-imp.jpg

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Almost all of these issues I've read is why I can't and won't support my local audio shops....seems like they must all be the same.  Over charging man hours only to wire things completely wrong, build boxes cheaply, massively screw up H/U paramaters and Amp tuning...etc.   I can't even stand to call them for advice knowing they are wrong most of the time...Too many times have I had to fix their mistakes from installs in friends vehicles, and a couple in my own, so I went ROUGE...LOL  They don't like me now, they tell me my brand of OFC cables are inferior, Hifonics amps suck, and that they have never heard of Fi Audio, just to quote a few...LMAO

Yea that's how it is around here. I dont understand it. Why work at an audio shop if your not going to learn about audio lol. There mostly just cocky sales people

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Maybe I missed the info, but how is the audio reaching the amps? Head unit with RCA or line output converter? What head unit do you have?

 

I have a stock head unit.  I drive a Ford Focus Titanium and the headunit is already touch screen so I didn't wanna mess with any of that.  So I can't say specifically because they didn't talk to me about this, but whatever is stock, that's all I can say is how it's reaching the amp.

 

My stock headunit setup is very similar to this, so it was hard for me to want to mess with the housing and all that.  Not sure what my options are.  I just found this image on google images real quick.

 

 

 

The reason I was asking about the head unit was because some factory OEM headunits can attenuate the bass as volume increases. Im just curious how they took the signal from the head unit, Line Output Converter? If so which one? LOC's also have a gain setting, maybe its not correct?

 

Did your car have a factory amp already in place? Did they tap the signal from the factory amp or directly from the head unit?

Edited by crackinhedz

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