Ethos 15 parameter sheet

[Quentin Jarrell 671]

Edited January 29, 2014 by Quentin Jarrell

[Quentin Jarrell 671]

Above pricing goes into effect on 2/15/14.  Current pricing is $355 SHIPPED

[SpeakerBoy 64]

You're the man Quentin 

[Quentin Jarrell 671]

You're the man Quentin

m

Just a noob trying to figure out all this adobe stuff. I did a good bit in school in gifted visual arts classes but that was over a decade a ago. I'll get the hang if it in a few weeks. These will be added to a full color catalog that will ship with product. The next page I'll be working on will be the recommended boxes with 3d model and cut sheet and expected frequency response. I'll also add in recommended port area for a variety of tunings. Basically everything needed to build the two boxes for each sub I listed plus a few tips to help with your own alignments.

[jcarter1885 995]

:woot:

[SpeakerBoy 64]

 

You're the man Quentin

m

Just a noob trying to figure out all this adobe stuff. I did a good bit in school in gifted visual arts classes but that was over a decade a ago. I'll get the hang if it in a few weeks. These will be added to a full color catalog that will ship with product. The next page I'll be working on will be the recommended boxes with 3d model and cut sheet and expected frequency response. I'll also add in recommended port area for a variety of tunings. Basically everything needed to build the two boxes for each sub I listed plus a few tips to help with your own alignments.

 

This man wins at subwoofers.

[SpeakerBoy 64]

I can't wait til I can switch it up and grab some Ethos, I am helping a friend with their first system, and while they used to be on here, they are out of the game; he'll lose it when I show him this. 

What do you think of a three twelves sealed setup, a nice bruiser/sq build? Possibilities are endless, you have finally brought the daydreams into reach

Edited January 29, 2014 by SpeakerBoy

[Dictator 39]

Quentin I see you have a puppy fetish

[edouble101 314]

 

You're the man Quentin

m

Just a noob trying to figure out all this adobe stuff. I did a good bit in school in gifted visual arts classes but that was over a decade a ago. I'll get the hang if it in a few weeks. These will be added to a full color catalog that will ship with product. The next page I'll be working on will be the recommended boxes with 3d model and cut sheet and expected frequency response. I'll also add in recommended port area for a variety of tunings. Basically everything needed to build the two boxes for each sub I listed plus a few tips to help with your own alignments.

 

 

How are you giving the expected frequency response? Wouldn't you have to account for the vehicle's in cabin acoustics? I would think that this would be nearly impossible without measuring every vehicle and mounting the enclosure in all possible locations in the vehicle.

[95Honda 486]

Hey just curious, why is the power quoted for Xmax in a 1.5^3 box but the recommended box is 3^3?  Am I missing something?

[Quentin Jarrell 671]

Hey just curious, why is the power quoted for Xmax in a 1.5^3 box but the recommended box is 3^3? Am I missing something?

No I used the 12 templete for the 15 and looked over it.

I'll address the transfer function.

[95Honda 486]

Cool, I thought it was a misprint as you explained your reasoning well previously.

[Quentin Jarrell 671]

I can't wait til I can switch it up and grab some Ethos, I am helping a friend with their first system, and while they used to be on here, they are out of the game; he'll lose it when I show him this. 

What do you think of a three twelves sealed setup, a nice bruiser/sq build? Possibilities are endless, you have finally brought the daydreams into reach

 

You'd be better off with two ported.  Cheaper, a ton cheaper when considering power.  Would be louder with a MUCH lower roll off and will not have any less "SQ".  There is something we call masking effect.  In laymen's terms it means that the louder you play your system the more distortion you can induce into the system and it not be audible.  When you get above 140 db especially in the sub realm you have to get into 40 to 50 percent distortion for it to be audible.  So don't get TOO concerned with SQ when trying to get loud.  Also I use a true progressive spider pack on my drivers.  This basically means the spider exponentially gets tighter as the cone moves.  This does several things but the most important is it creates 4th order distortion.  This does two things.  First it gives a phsycoacoustical effect making the sound appear to be louder and second it increases the appearance of transient response making the sound appear to be warmer and tighter.  So in some cases distortion can be your friend.

[95Honda 486]

And that is why I prefer tubes my friend...  No odd-order garbage...

[Quentin Jarrell 671]

ok, adjustments made

[Sencheezy 689]

And that is why I prefer tubes my friend...  No odd-order garbage...

 

Hey Honda, it's interesting you bring up Tubes, I was doing a little bit research yesterday, (not to thread jack), so feel free to move. 

 

source http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/technical-advanced-car-audio-discussion/38784-given-cabin-gain-reality-do-we-need-low-fs-2.html

 

Anyway, I think we now understand that damping factor, which is a quality associated with an amplifier, isn't an indicator of anything. I'm going to stop using that term now.

The output impedance of the amplifier, if it's great enough, can have an effect on the sound of the system, and that amplifier quality is often called "outut regulation" and is included in the CEA 2006 standard. Here's how that works:

 

 

As we know from yesterday, the amplifier's output impedance is in series with the speaker. By Kirschoff's laws, the voltage in a series circuit divides proportionate to the resistance. Let's say our amplifier has an output impedance of 1 ohm and we're using a 4 ohm speaker. If the amplifier makes 20 volts (100 watts at 4 ohms by P = E^2/R), then 1/5 of the voltage is dropped across the output impedance and 4/5 of the voltage is dropped across the speaker. 1/5 of the voltage is 4 and 4/5 of the voltage is 16. Now, we can figure out how much power is dissipated by the amplifier's output Z by 4^2/1. Which is 16 watts. 16^2/4 = 64. So, our amplifier that made 100 watts at 4 ohms makes 80 watts at 5 ohms and only 64 of those watts make it to the speaker. OK, an amp with an ouptut impedance of 1 ohm would make a better door stop than an amplifier, but it makes a good example and the math is easy.

 

 

In that example, we used the nominal impedance of the speaker (as if it was a simple resistor). A speaker isn't a resistor, so if we wanted to figure out how the frequency response of the speaker would be affected by the output impedance we would use the measured impedance at a bunch of frequencies, do the math and plot the curve. Since the voltage from the amp divides proportionate to the series resistances, it's easy to see that the output impedance has a greater effect at frequencies where the speakaer's impedance is lowest and a smaller effect at frequencies where the speaker's impedance is greatest. If the amplifier's output impedance is really high, if you put a resistor in series with the speaker, or if you use 1000 feet of 30 gauge cable, resonance will be nearly unaffected, but the frequencies above that will be more affected.

 

 

Lovers of Tube amplifiers claim that the 2nd order distortion makes them sound warmer, but I don't think that's what causes that effect. Our brains find very low levels of constant distortion objectionable--zero crossing distortion at 1% is nasty. Distortion on transient peaks has to be about 20% before we say it's as nasty as 1% constant distortion and it's nearly inaudible at 10%. If it was second order distortion that made tubes sound good, there would have to be whole lot of distortion.

 

 

However, many old tube amps had VERY high output impedance. that output impedance attenuates the midrange and leaves the bass unaffected. If you're driving a full range home speaker, the midrange would be attenuated a little, but the bandwidth of the attenuation would be large--we can hear .5dB of attenuation if the bandwidth is more than an octave wide--but the bass would be unaffected. There's the "warmth" that tube lovers love.

 

 

Passive crossovers don't screw things up, they're just tools that we use to modify the impedance of the loudspeaker at some frequencies to cause less power to be applied to the speaker at those frequencies. The simplest explanation of how they work is that they raise the impedance at frequencies we want to get rid of so the amplifier makes less power at those frequencies. A capacitor on a midrange or a tweeter raises the impedance at low frequencies so less power makes it to the speaker.

 

 

There are many different ways to design passive networks, but two are prevalent. The cheesy way is to calculate the value of the components using the nominal impedance of the speaker (as if it was a resistor) and then apply the crossover to the speaker (like the way we use active crossovers). Passive crossovers depend on the load impedance to determine the frequency, Q and slope of the filter, and applying a filter designed to provide particular values to a resistive load won't have the same response when applied to a speaker with an impedance CURVE. People who design these kinds of crossovers often use a Zobel network to flatten the impedance that the crossover "sees", so the response applied to the speaker is what they originally designed.

 

 

The other way to design the crossover (now made pretty easy since we can use computers to model the response) is to use the actual speaker's impedance as the terminal load in the calculations and to choose the component values according to the impedance curve of the speaker. that's the best and most economical way, but without modeling software, it's very difficult.

To Scott's point, all passive components have their own DC resistance, which we often refer to as parasitic. That resistance only screws things up if we don't consider it in the design of the network.

 

 

---

 

I was wondering what would your take be on this response, regarding the sound of Tube amplifiers? 

[95Honda 486]

The frequency response of a high quality tube amp is flat beyond the audible range, this is a product of good design and quality output transformers.

 

Even order harmonics contribute to a warmer sound.

 

Tubes run into clipping much more gracefully without all the nasty odd order harmonics solid state gets a bad rap for.

 

Dampening factor isn't everything, but it has it's place.  Tubes aren't the only designs with high output impedance/low dampening.  I built a set of Nelson Pass Son of Zen, single ended, MOSFET amplifiers back in the late 90s.  They had worse dampening than almost any tube amp, but sounded very good.

 

A passive crossover that keeps the drivers from playing out of their bands will work, but normally doesn't sound so good.  Getting a passive crossover to give flat response and decent impedance is the hard part.  Most of this CANNOT be modeled exactly due to way too many driver response variations.  Driver measurements need to be imported into the modeling software or measurements of the overall system need to be made.  Your ears are good at telling you something doesn't sound right, measuring is good at telling you where it doesn't sound right... 

[Sencheezy 689]

The frequency response of a high quality tube amp is flat beyond the audible range, this is a product of good design and quality output transformers.

 

Even order harmonics contribute to a warmer sound.

 

Tubes run into clipping much more gracefully without all the nasty odd order harmonics solid state gets a bad rap for.

 

Dampening factor isn't everything, but it has it's place.  Tubes aren't the only designs with high output impedance/low dampening.  I built a set of Nelson Pass Son of Zen, single ended, MOSFET amplifiers back in the late 90s.  They had worse dampening than almost any tube amp, but sounded very good.

 

A passive crossover that keeps the drivers from playing out of their bands will work, but normally doesn't sound so good.  Getting a passive crossover to give flat response and decent impedance is the hard part.  Most of this CANNOT be modeled exactly due to way too many driver response variations.  Driver measurements need to be imported into the modeling software or measurements of the overall system need to be made.  Your ears are good at telling you something doesn't sound right, measuring is good at telling you where it doesn't sound right... 

 

Love this quote! And thank you for your response.

[95Honda 486]

I think I also thread jacked, sorry Quentin!

[Quentin Jarrell 671]

I think I also thread jacked, sorry Quentin!

not a problem just keep bumping my product page

[onebadmonte 235]

Any chance of getting the parameters for the dual 2 ohm subs.

[Quentin Jarrell 671]

Any chance of getting the parameters for the dual 2 ohm subs.

use the same parameters.  The two ohm coils I use have the same OD as the dual ones  there for motor force factor remains the same.  there fore parameters remain the same.