Sa-15 motor getting hot and surround ripping

[Whatshisface176 1]

So my friends set up is a single sa 15 in a 6.5 net cu ft box with 91.5 in Sq port area and it's receiving roughly 950 watts. After normal play for about an hour the motor gets very warm and we noticed today that around the cone there is a small amount of tearing on the surround. Not sure why this is happening knowing that the sa's can take quite a bit of beating . maybe the box is just to large for the woofer and it's causing some thermal stress on the the motor. Just curious what might be the problem and if there is a solution.

[EPerez 236]

It's either because the box is wayyyyy to big and/or gains not set right.

Make a normal box for it. What the hell is it doing in that box? Lol

[The enD 467]

http://www.sundownaudio.com/index.php/products/subwoofers/item/sa-series.html

 

Basically, your box is twice as big as what is recommended and you are giving it 50% more than the rated power.

[EPerez 236]

http://www.sundownaudio.com/index.php/products/subwoofers/item/sa-series.html

 

Basically, your box is twice as big as what is recommended and you are giving it 50% more than the rated power.

Correct! The SA series "can" take more than 600 rms if you know what you're doing. This means by having a correct box design and gains set correctly with proper electrical. You're box is not correct since it's too much. So it shouldn't last long like this.

[The enD 467]

I had no problem with a sa-12 on a saz1500d. But it was in the proper box...

[EPerez 236]

I had no problem with a sa-12 on a saz1500d. But it was in the proper box...

Of course it'll take it no problem lol just need the box too pair with it.

[Whatshisface176 1]

He wanted a good amount of low end with the sub. He really likes around 25-40hz range. What tuning and box detentions might be able to achieve this?

[EPerez 236]

I wud do around 3.5 cubes with around 60in2 of port area tuned to ~29-31.

Thats a start.

[jcarter1885 995]

Wow.....

[Lee Carter 150]

maybe the x series would be better for him?  I guess I just don't understand the idea of using more than rated power on subs....

[Julian 641]

Is it inverted?

[altoncustomtech 773]

maybe the x series would be better for him?  I guess I just don't understand the idea of using more than rated power on subs....

 

There's nothing wrong with using more than rated power on any driver BUT it takes more attention to everything and a good ear to keep from destroying them.  Extra power is good for headroom plain and simple.  The headroom gets you more power to the driver with less chance of clipping and distortion.  Nothing but a good thing as long as you don't overdo it on the volume knob.

 

 

EDIT:  This link "Amplifier Headroom" is a terrific write up on the subject, what it really means and what it can do for you.

[Sencheezy 689]

So my friends set up is a single sa 15 in a 6.5 net cu ft box with 91.5 in Sq port area and it's receiving roughly 950 watts. After normal play for about an hour the motor gets very warm and we noticed today that around the cone there is a small amount of tearing on the surround. Not sure why this is happening knowing that the sa's can take quite a bit of beating . maybe the box is just to large for the woofer and it's causing some thermal stress on the the motor. Just curious what might be the problem and if there is a solution.

 

I would start there.

[Whatshisface176 1]

I've seen someone with the woofer in a 5.5 cu ft box tuned to 29hz and it got really low but i'm not sure how well the woofer was taking the power. It was about 750 watts as well. He just really wants his low end to peak.

[THX_Elite 26]

 

maybe the x series would be better for him?  I guess I just don't understand the idea of using more than rated power on subs....

 

There's nothing wrong with using more than rated power on any driver BUT it takes more attention to everything and a good ear to keep from destroying them.  Extra power is good for headroom plain and simple.  The headroom gets you more power to the driver with less chance of clipping and distortion.  Nothing but a good thing as long as you don't overdo it on the volume knob.

 

+1 ^^

~and as others stated before the gain could be set to high causing the sub to clip AND the enclosure is just waay too big

Edited March 27, 2014 by THX_Elite

[Lee Carter 150]

 

maybe the x series would be better for him?  I guess I just don't understand the idea of using more than rated power on subs....

 

There's nothing wrong with using more than rated power on any driver BUT it takes more attention to everything and a good ear to keep from destroying them.  Extra power is good for headroom plain and simple.  The headroom gets you more power to the driver with less chance of clipping and distortion.  Nothing but a good thing as long as you don't overdo it on the volume knob.

 

 

I understand what you are saying....but this is exactly why i tend to set up my systems where they are very unlikely to get overdriven.  I just don't see the need unless you are competing.  Admittedly i am just getting into this level of output, but I have always ran subs that had a bit more rating than the power I am feeding them, and have yet to blow an amp- or cook a woofer(except for the IA I just had reconed...and I was over powering it).  But it seems self evident when you are feeding a 600w sub almost 1000w and it starts coming apart what the problem is.LOL

[Whatshisface176 1]

maybe the x series would be better for him?  I guess I just don't understand the idea of using more than rated power on subs....

 

There's nothing wrong with using more than rated power on any driver BUT it takes more attention to everything and a good ear to keep from destroying them.  Extra power is good for headroom plain and simple.  The headroom gets you more power to the driver with less chance of clipping and distortion.  Nothing but a good thing as long as you don't overdo it on the volume knob.

+1 ^^

~and as others stated before the gain could be set to high causing the sub to clip AND the enclosure is just waay too big

Gains are set correctly

[Whatshisface176 1]

maybe the x series would be better for him?  I guess I just don't understand the idea of using more than rated power on subs....

 

There's nothing wrong with using more than rated power on any driver BUT it takes more attention to everything and a good ear to keep from destroying them.  Extra power is good for headroom plain and simple.  The headroom gets you more power to the driver with less chance of clipping and distortion.  Nothing but a good thing as long as you don't overdo it on the volume knob.

 

I understand what you are saying....but this is exactly why i tend to set up my systems where they are very unlikely to get overdriven.  I just don't see the need unless you are competing.  Admittedly i am just getting into this level of output, but I have always ran subs that had a bit more rating than the power I am feeding them, and have yet to blow an amp- or cook a woofer(except for the IA I just had reconed...and I was over powering it).  But it seems self evident when you are feeding a 600w sub almost 1000w and it starts coming apart what the problem is.LOL

I mean there are people on youtube feeding these 2k

[altoncustomtech 773]

 

 

maybe the x series would be better for him?  I guess I just don't understand the idea of using more than rated power on subs....

 

There's nothing wrong with using more than rated power on any driver BUT it takes more attention to everything and a good ear to keep from destroying them.  Extra power is good for headroom plain and simple.  The headroom gets you more power to the driver with less chance of clipping and distortion.  Nothing but a good thing as long as you don't overdo it on the volume knob.

 

 

I understand what you are saying....but this is exactly why i tend to set up my systems where they are very unlikely to get overdriven.  I just don't see the need unless you are competing.  Admittedly i am just getting into this level of output, but I have always ran subs that had a bit more rating than the power I am feeding them, and have yet to blow an amp- or cook a woofer(except for the IA I just had reconed...and I was over powering it).  But it seems self evident when you are feeding a 600w sub almost 1000w and it starts coming apart what the problem is.LOL

 

 

It doesn't have to have anything to do with competing, actually almost completely the opposite.  I edited in a link to that post that Brad wrote up on the subject.  It details a great explanation on why headroom is a very good thing to help things sound so much better than they can when running rated or below rated power on a speaker.

[THX_Elite 26]

 

 

 

maybe the x series would be better for him?  I guess I just don't understand the idea of using more than rated power on subs....

 

There's nothing wrong with using more than rated power on any driver BUT it takes more attention to everything and a good ear to keep from destroying them.  Extra power is good for headroom plain and simple.  The headroom gets you more power to the driver with less chance of clipping and distortion.  Nothing but a good thing as long as you don't overdo it on the volume knob.

+1 ^^

~and as others stated before the gain could be set to high causing the sub to clip AND the enclosure is just waay too big

Gains are set correctly

That's good.  The best solution then would be a smaller enclosure he could darn near run two 15's in that amount of space!

[Impious 1,476]

maybe the x series would be better for him? I guess I just don't understand the idea of using more than rated power on subs....

There's nothing wrong with using more than rated power on any driver BUT it takes more attention to everything and a good ear to keep from destroying them. Extra power is good for headroom plain and simple. The headroom gets you more power to the driver with less chance of clipping and distortion. Nothing but a good thing as long as you don't overdo it on the volume knob.

I understand what you are saying....but this is exactly why i tend to set up my systems where they are very unlikely to get overdriven. I just don't see the need unless you are competing. Admittedly i am just getting into this level of output, but I have always ran subs that had a bit more rating than the power I am feeding them, and have yet to blow an amp- or cook a woofer(except for the IA I just had reconed...and I was over powering it). But it seems self evident when you are feeding a 600w sub almost 1000w and it starts coming apart what the problem is.LOL

I mean there are people on youtube feeding these 2k

Don't worry about what someone on youtube is doing. That's your first problem. No reason to even reference youtube here. Obviously you're not doing something right as you are tearing the sub apart.

Second what is the point for using that extra power on the sub other than increasing your risk of damage to the driver? You are looking at 1-1.5db more output, which is either fully or borderline inaudible in exchange for clearly overdriving the subwoofer. What exactly do you plan to achieve other than damaging the driver ? If output is the goal, that extra power isn't doing a whole hell of a lot of good. All it's doing is tearing the driver apart. Back off the power.

Where is the subsonic filter set and how did you set the gain to know that it's "set correctly" ?

I'd have to model the enclosures, but if the surround is tearing that's a clear indication of over excursion. So either you are using too much power for that enclosure mechanically, or the SSF isn't set correctly...or both.

[Whatshisface176 1]

maybe the x series would be better for him? I guess I just don't understand the idea of using more than rated power on subs....

There's nothing wrong with using more than rated power on any driver BUT it takes more attention to everything and a good ear to keep from destroying them. Extra power is good for headroom plain and simple. The headroom gets you more power to the driver with less chance of clipping and distortion. Nothing but a good thing as long as you don't overdo it on the volume knob.

I understand what you are saying....but this is exactly why i tend to set up my systems where they are very unlikely to get overdriven. I just don't see the need unless you are competing. Admittedly i am just getting into this level of output, but I have always ran subs that had a bit more rating than the power I am feeding them, and have yet to blow an amp- or cook a woofer(except for the IA I just had reconed...and I was over powering it). But it seems self evident when you are feeding a 600w sub almost 1000w and it starts coming apart what the problem is.LOL

I mean there are people on youtube feeding these 2k

Don't worry about what someone on youtube is doing. That's your first problem. No reason to even reference youtube here. Obviously you're not doing something right as you are tearing the sub apart.

Second what is the point for using that extra power on the sub other than increasing your risk of damage to the driver? You are looking at 1-1.5db more output, which is either fully or borderline inaudible in exchange for clearly overdriving the subwoofer. What exactly do you plan to achieve other than damaging the driver ? If output is the goal, that extra power isn't doing a whole hell of a lot of good. All it's doing is tearing the driver apart. Back off the power.

Where is the subsonic filter set and how did you set the gain to know that it's "set correctly" ?

I'd have to model the enclosures, but if the surround is tearing that's a clear indication of over excursion. So either you are using too much power for that enclosure mechanically, or the SSF isn't set correctly...or both.

I am simply asking for his help. Do not state this is "my doing" my set up is very much perfect with nothing wrong what so ever. I know what i am doing. He on the other hand wanted me to post on here so that he could get more input on the subject. Instead i am being told that "I" am doing something wrong...

[Whatshisface176 1]

maybe the x series would be better for him?  I guess I just don't understand the idea of using more than rated power on subs....

 

There's nothing wrong with using more than rated power on any driver BUT it takes more attention to everything and a good ear to keep from destroying them.  Extra power is good for headroom plain and simple.  The headroom gets you more power to the driver with less chance of clipping and distortion.  Nothing but a good thing as long as you don't overdo it on the volume knob.

+1 ^^

~and as others stated before the gain could be set to high causing the sub to clip AND the enclosure is just waay too big

Gains are set correctly

That's good.  The best solution then would be a smaller enclosure he could darn near run two 15's in that amount of space!

Yes sadly enough this was going to be for 2 15s but he found this woofer and wanted it. Therefore putting it in this box. I believe now we've decided to rebuild and make a box with 3.5 cu ft and an external aero port so that he can change the tuning as he pleases. He wants to tune it around 29-30hz. Again seeking those lows.

[THX_Elite 26]

 

 

 

 

 

maybe the x series would be better for him? I guess I just don't understand the idea of using more than rated power on subs....

There's nothing wrong with using more than rated power on any driver BUT it takes more attention to everything and a good ear to keep from destroying them. Extra power is good for headroom plain and simple. The headroom gets you more power to the driver with less chance of clipping and distortion. Nothing but a good thing as long as you don't overdo it on the volume knob.

I understand what you are saying....but this is exactly why i tend to set up my systems where they are very unlikely to get overdriven. I just don't see the need unless you are competing. Admittedly i am just getting into this level of output, but I have always ran subs that had a bit more rating than the power I am feeding them, and have yet to blow an amp- or cook a woofer(except for the IA I just had reconed...and I was over powering it). But it seems self evident when you are feeding a 600w sub almost 1000w and it starts coming apart what the problem is.LOL

I mean there are people on youtube feeding these 2k

Don't worry about what someone on youtube is doing. That's your first problem. No reason to even reference youtube here. Obviously you're not doing something right as you are tearing the sub apart.

Second what is the point for using that extra power on the sub other than increasing your risk of damage to the driver? You are looking at 1-1.5db more output, which is either fully or borderline inaudible in exchange for clearly overdriving the subwoofer. What exactly do you plan to achieve other than damaging the driver ? If output is the goal, that extra power isn't doing a whole hell of a lot of good. All it's doing is tearing the driver apart. Back off the power.

Where is the subsonic filter set and how did you set the gain to know that it's "set correctly" ?

I'd have to model the enclosures, but if the surround is tearing that's a clear indication of over excursion. So either you are using too much power for that enclosure mechanically, or the SSF isn't set correctly...or both.

I am simply asking for his help. Do not state this is "my doing" my set up is very much perfect with nothing wrong what so ever. I know what i am doing. He on the other hand wanted me to post on here so that he could get more input on the subject. Instead i am being told that "I" am doing something wrong...

 

 

 

Maybe you are or maybe you arent, and I say this because amp gains and Sub Sonic Filters don't set themselves for each different enclosure. Impious is right in that the sub is breaching it's xmax due to either the size of the enclosure or improperly set SSF or both.  Also to make sure you have "overhead" power you need to dial back the gain behind the output of the voltage of you H/U.  In this case I would either change out enclosures ASAP or dial back on the gain and double check the ssf.

Edited March 27, 2014 by THX_Elite

[Whatshisface176 1]

maybe the x series would be better for him? I guess I just don't understand the idea of using more than rated power on subs....

There's nothing wrong with using more than rated power on any driver BUT it takes more attention to everything and a good ear to keep from destroying them. Extra power is good for headroom plain and simple. The headroom gets you more power to the driver with less chance of clipping and distortion. Nothing but a good thing as long as you don't overdo it on the volume knob.

I understand what you are saying....but this is exactly why i tend to set up my systems where they are very unlikely to get overdriven. I just don't see the need unless you are competing. Admittedly i am just getting into this level of output, but I have always ran subs that had a bit more rating than the power I am feeding them, and have yet to blow an amp- or cook a woofer(except for the IA I just had reconed...and I was over powering it). But it seems self evident when you are feeding a 600w sub almost 1000w and it starts coming apart what the problem is.LOL

I mean there are people on youtube feeding these 2k

Don't worry about what someone on youtube is doing. That's your first problem. No reason to even reference youtube here. Obviously you're not doing something right as you are tearing the sub apart.

Second what is the point for using that extra power on the sub other than increasing your risk of damage to the driver? You are looking at 1-1.5db more output, which is either fully or borderline inaudible in exchange for clearly overdriving the subwoofer. What exactly do you plan to achieve other than damaging the driver ? If output is the goal, that extra power isn't doing a whole hell of a lot of good. All it's doing is tearing the driver apart. Back off the power.

Where is the subsonic filter set and how did you set the gain to know that it's "set correctly" ?

I'd have to model the enclosures, but if the surround is tearing that's a clear indication of over excursion. So either you are using too much power for that enclosure mechanically, or the SSF isn't set correctly...or both.

I am simply asking for his help. Do not state this is "my doing" my set up is very much perfect with nothing wrong what so ever. I know what i am doing. He on the other hand wanted me to post on here so that he could get more input on the subject. Instead i am being told that "I" am doing something wrong...

 

 

Maybe you are or maybe you arent, and I say this because amp gains and Sub Sonic Filters don't set themselves for each different enclosure. Impious is right in that the sub is breaching it's xmax due to either the size of the enclosure or improperly set SSF or both.  Also to make sure you have "overhead" power you need to dial back the gain behind the output of the voltage of you H/U.  In this case I would either change out enclosures ASAP or dial back on the gain and double check the ssf.

We are fixing the box. 3.5 cubes tuned to 29 or 30hz using an aero port. Again, he wants lows