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Matt Schademann

Nu-B to this forum - checking these 'indie' amp brands here. 4

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Hey all,

1st virgin cherry-popping post here.

 

Some folks on the CarAudio Forum highly recommended SSA for the outstanding lineup of amps etc. and even better price tags.

I'm under the impression that these names here are young, hungry and trying to make a name for themselves while offering great values.

 

So, I've only had 2 amps, both Kickers. One was about 2001, Impulse 405 which sounded great to start but destroyed my Excelon comps.

Didn't know what clipping from underpowering was!

 

2nd was some 180w behemoth and the Alpine 505 IVA DVD player. DEF not high quality sound emphasis. Imprint junk blah blah.

But in my Jeep are 2 sets of Diamond Hex 600's about 4y/o.  The amp is toast, I have a new Pioneer-DEH-80PRS that's supposed to be audiophile

grade.

 

So my question is this: These Diamond's are recommended for big power, assumedly to bring quality, imaging and sound stage. I like it loud,

but I don't care as much about power as I do about making them sing.

 

I see the Alpine PDX-F6 for just above $400, that's 150x4.

The other specs that look good in SSA's lineup here are:

 

Sundown: SAX 125.4

Incriminator Audio IA6.4 870W RMS 4 Channel

Crescendo Audio C1100.4

SoundQubed Q4-120 4 Channel (why so cheap???)

 

a couple others not sold here are:

Soundstream REF4.760 760W RMS 4-Channel Ref. Series

Kenwood Excelon X600F 100x4

 

Focal I LOVE in my home system, have everything from ELectras to Cobalts so I understand the importance of high watts for SQ.

 

Can anyone comment on the few I've listed? Many of these I couldn't find in any stores around me.

Jazz, Classical, SteelyDan, is as important as KMFDM or NIN.

 

Thanks much!

 

 

 

 

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The beauty of amps is that aside from power and general build quality (i.e. avoiding the super low end junk) they are pretty unimportant. Buy whichever has the most power for the least money in the footprint you want with the features you need. It's really hat simple.

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Thanks for the input Impious...

So dare I say you're claiming all amps are the same beyond the low end junk? ;)

 

Are not some more musical than others? Or all just procesing the same electrons?

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Subjective terms like "more musical" aren't meaningful.

The sonic attributes of an electronic device such as an amplifier can be completely characterized by 5 measurements; frequency response, distortion, noise, gain and power. Just about any amp today is going to have flat enough frequency response to be audibly indistinguishable, low enough distortion to be inaudible, and noise should also be inaudible as long as the gain is set to avoid thermal noise. So that leaves power as the deciding factor. If by some chance two amps do happen to sound different, it's not because one amp is more "musical"... it's because there was an audible difference in one of those 5 categories. But again, there is a low probability of having two standard amps having audibly different frequency response, distortion or noise leaving power as the deciding and audibly important factor.

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Subjective terms like "more musical" aren't meaningful.

The sonic attributes of an electronic device such as an amplifier can be completely characterized by 5 measurements; frequency response, distortion, noise, gain and power. Just about any amp today is going to have flat enough frequency response to be audibly indistinguishable, low enough distortion to be inaudible, and noise should also be inaudible as long as the gain is set to avoid thermal noise. So that leaves power as the deciding factor. If by some chance two amps do happen to sound different, it's not because one amp is more "musical"... it's because there was an audible difference in one of those 5 categories. But again, there is a low probability of having two standard amps having audibly different frequency response, distortion or noise leaving power as the deciding and audibly important factor.

Also the fact that most of those are Korean made which blurs the lines even more.

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I would advise going with Zed Audio, I love mine ! lol. But, if you are wanting a small imprint, big power, a local teammate has been having good luck with the ppi amps.

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And to second what Impious is saying, I too find it true that it's the driver that is more important than the amplifier. 

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I do appreciate the feedback and well thought out responses.  So I'm on the right track looking for the 'suggested' 120w+ range for these Diamond Hex's.

Was going to do Focal 'Glass but I opted for the Silk tweets over the Diamond Aluminum versions, because if I learned from anything from my home

Electra monitors (Berylium no less!) is that anything extreme on the bright & revealing side needs a more butter-warm amp (B&K 200.7) in my case to

balance out. So in the home world, amp lines do vary and one-size doesn't fit all.  Tube makes Focal's insatiable. But if you're doing SS circuitry then

you'd better research the right sound and lineups.

 

But I guess what does make the home setup 'musical' really, you're correct, is the ridiculous resistance in the monitors and the anything less than 200w

would just suck. The more wattage, the more 'musical' terms can be brought in to describe the experience like imaging, sound stage, depth. More visual

terms than audio, because it's almost so real and 3D you can reach out and touch the strings etc.

 

The Zed lineup looks great! The Micro looks a little underpowerd @75 and the Draconia is spot on but a bit over my $400 budget.

Don't care much about footprint, unless someone can seriously convince me the Alpine PDX-F6 (150w) is caught up with D to A/B quality?

 

This PPI looks incredibly low priced for 130 watts? http://precisionpower.com/store/products/amplifiers/black-ice/bk120-52.html

This one too: http://precisionpower.com/store/products/amplifiers/power-class/pc400-20.html

And almost all are out of stock on their websites

 

OK  UPDATE:

 

The PPI site is probably about the best Amp website I've come across yet! THe PDF's are incredibly informative, the reviews on every site are all nothing short of stellar, and you can tell the people leaving comments really know about the SQ they're looking for, not just "blew the doors off my Yukon dude...."

 

And the prices are almost too good to be true. Man have amp prices come down the last decade! Thx for the PPI plug, I'm smitten!

 

I did want to keep my soapbox statements about wattage for imaging and not just volume. Because I think it's one of the single most overlooked topics and is the turnkey for people to get what it's all about, at least in the home arena.

 

THX GUYS...

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Car audio is NOTHING like home audio.  The automotive environment is trash in comparison,and what you have learned from home audio, as far as sound quality is concerned, you can throw it out the window.  You will find yourself searching to replicate a sonic nirvana unattainable in an automobile.

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It's not completely without parallels though, 1st thing coming to my mind is the damage caused for underpowering drivers, and the benefits to having more power than you'll use.

Just trying to figure out why PPI so damn cheap in price compared to the big names!

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There is no such thing as underpowering.  You can not underpower a driver, in home or in car.   A driver dies due to being stretched beyond mechanical or thermal limit, or material defect.

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cranking up volume and/or gains to compensate for not enought power causing clipping...?

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cranking up volume and/or gains to compensate for not enought power causing clipping...?

And the problem there is clipping, not so called "underpowering". And clipping is only a problem if the resulting power is more than the driver can handle thermally. You can't damage a driver with too little power.

The other parallel is the lack of amplifier "sonic signatures". It's just as much a myth in home audio as it is in car audio.

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An amp is an amp, just like a wire is a wire. They are supposed to add gain and that is what even a mediocre one will do. I'd much rather have a used quality piece than a new budget amp but for longevity more than anything else

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Note there are complete pos amps but no one should evver buy those

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I do appreciate the feedback and well thought out responses.  So I'm on the right track looking for the 'suggested' 120w+ range for these Diamond Hex's.

Was going to do Focal 'Glass but I opted for the Silk tweets over the Diamond Aluminum versions, because if I learned from anything from my home

Electra monitors (Berylium no less!) is that anything extreme on the bright & revealing side needs a more butter-warm amp (B&K 200.7) in my case to

balance out. So in the home world, amp lines do vary and one-size doesn't fit all.  Tube makes Focal's insatiable. But if you're doing SS circuitry then

you'd better research the right sound and lineups.

 

But I guess what does make the home setup 'musical' really, you're correct, is the ridiculous resistance in the monitors and the anything less than 200w

would just suck. The more wattage, the more 'musical' terms can be brought in to describe the experience like imaging, sound stage, depth. More visual

terms than audio, because it's almost so real and 3D you can reach out and touch the strings etc.

 

The Zed lineup looks great! The Micro looks a little underpowerd @75 and the Draconia is spot on but a bit over my $400 budget.

Don't care much about footprint, unless someone can seriously convince me the Alpine PDX-F6 (150w) is caught up with D to A/B quality?

 

This PPI looks incredibly low priced for 130 watts? http://precisionpower.com/store/products/amplifiers/black-ice/bk120-52.html

This one too: http://precisionpower.com/store/products/amplifiers/power-class/pc400-20.html

And almost all are out of stock on their websites

 

OK  UPDATE:

 

The PPI site is probably about the best Amp website I've come across yet! THe PDF's are incredibly informative, the reviews on every site are all nothing short of stellar, and you can tell the people leaving comments really know about the SQ they're looking for, not just "blew the doors off my Yukon dude...."

 

And the prices are almost too good to be true. Man have amp prices come down the last decade! Thx for the PPI plug, I'm smitten!

 

I did want to keep my soapbox statements about wattage for imaging and not just volume. Because I think it's one of the single most overlooked topics and is the turnkey for people to get what it's all about, at least in the home arena.

 

THX GUYS...

 

haha, no worries man. You can thank @nadcicle for that one. He's a good guy and is always trying different equipment. 

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OK so after being OCD with whatever research i can do without actually hearing one (most of these non-popular brands are very hard to find in a store like Ken, JL, Alp et al) I think the PPI Powerclass series is looking really good. Good connections and build, terrific price. Their website has it listed as unavailable, but I've seen it for about $200 online. I would eat the tax and get it from local just to support local biz but can't find any dealers in Chi that carry it!

 

Unless anyone is going to stop me I'm going to pull the trigger on PPI PC640.4 - I don't think I'll be that starving for power with the Diamond Hex 600's.

http://precisionpower.com/store/products/amplifiers/power-class/pc400-20.html

 

I'll play with this and try to give some feedback to the forum with quality pix etc.

And because Admin's here didn't try to steer me to one of SSA's lines, I think that's so classy I'll come back for the Crescendo I really want after I get this one tried out for awhile.

 

THanks all! Wish I didn't have to wait for California shipping. It's going to be a LONG week, Xmas in April lol.

 

Thanks again for the thoughtful replies.

-matt

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SAW that!! he used the A-word :-D

 

OCS was out, it was their hot-deal of the week but I got hooked up. I love that I can add some PPI goodies to the thing later if I want, DSP's etc. This and almost all of SSA's items are pretty much unknown in these parts amongst the mainstream. I love any newer hungry less known company for everything, makes sure they don't take things for granted or just ride a broad fan-base.

 

Oh over the phone, the guy sais Soundstream and PPI are pretty much the same company

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Subjective terms like "more musical" aren't meaningful.

 

"After snooping around inside it, I expected the amp to sound good, and I wasn’t disappointed! The PC640.4 is one of the more musical car stereo amps I’ve heard in a while. The amplifiers sonics were very similar to my studio reference amplifier, and that’s saying something...."      - Garry Springgay - PASMag Review

 

Sorry...just saw this, couldn't resist! ;)

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SAW that!! he used the A-word :-D

OCS was out, it was their hot-deal of the week but I got hooked up. I love that I can add some PPI goodies to the thing later if I want, DSP's etc. This and almost all of SSA's items are pretty much unknown in these parts amongst the mainstream. I love any newer hungry less known company for everything, makes sure they don't take things for granted or just ride a broad fan-base.

Oh over the phone, the guy sais Soundstream and PPI are pretty much the same company

Yeah, I don't know both line ups well but at least some of the amps between the two brands are identical boards in different heat sinks.

Subjective terms like "more musical" aren't meaningful.

"After snooping around inside it, I expected the amp to sound good, and I wasn’t disappointed! The PC640.4 is one of the more musical car stereo amps I’ve heard in a while. The amplifiers sonics were very similar to my studio reference amplifier, and that’s saying something...." - Garry Springgay - PASMag Review

Sorry...just saw this, couldn't resist! ;)

I'm mobile so emoticons don't work for me...but imagine me shooting myself on the head right now.

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