(was Slightly disappointed) now Impressed with my XCON 15!!&#3

[hdrox88 142]

Let me start off by saying that the sub in question is in non functioning condition right now, so I can't make any changes or adjustments to see what helps. I am trying to decide on a recone, or another sub choice.

 

I had the sub (D1 coils) running at 2 ohm on a BRZ2400.1D in a 3.2ft^3 net sealed enclosure. 1/0 wire from front battery to a XS D3100 in the rear and then to the amp. I had the LPF set at 80hz with 24db slope and subsonic all the way down on the amp (15hz I think). I have a fairly eclectic music choice, but listen to rock and hip-hop mostly. This thing would hit the lows(40-30hz) nicely. I had a slight tickle in my throat and could visually see my door panels moving with doors closed and windows up. My concern is that it didn't have much power in the higher(60-70 hz) range. When listening to rock, kick drums just didn't have the punch I was expecting. Also, with double bass or anything with any sort of speed or quick transients it just fell apart and ran everything together. A quick example would be Hearts Burst Into Fire by Bullet For My Valentine. There is some double bass work in that song that the xcon simply could not "keep up" with. I also had it in a 2ft^3 sealed box and it wasn't much different. Battery voltage would get down to low 13s when letting it shake things up.

 

Keeping the power and settings the same, the xcon was swapped out for two mtx thunder ported enclosures from my cousins truck. 3 mtx 10" 5500 in each box. That would not go as low as the xcon, but with the rock music it never skipped a beat and double bass was well separated and defined. The chest punching power was there as well, I'm sure cone area played a part in this one.

[nem 2,019]

Why not build a ported box for that XCON?

[hdrox88 142]

That was my next step, but I fried it. I am trying to decide on sending it in for a recone and waiting to get it back so I can do that, or swipe that Magnetar from Sencheezy.

[Quentin Jarrell 671]

If you aren't happy with the transient response from the xcon (which by the way is due to the box). Do NOT buy the Magnetar. You won't be happy.

[Julian 641]

Ported tuned in the high 30s is probably what you need. And honestly subs shouldn't be playing up to 70. I would upgrade my front stage before making a definite answer

[hdrox88 142]

I was under the impression that a sealed enclosure would give more accurate response. Many people have said that the xcon does great sealed.

[Julian 641]

And I would also suggest a larger box

[hdrox88 142]

A larger ported box was soon to come, but now that the sub needs a recone I was just looking for some insight to help lead me in the right direction. The sealed box seems to be the problem in this equation, along with my judgement to run it that way.

[altoncustomtech 773]

Ported tuned in the high 30s is probably what you need. And honestly subs shouldn't be playing up to 70. I would upgrade my front stage before making a definite answer

 

^^^  I definitely agree that you need to look more into the front stage and the midbass setup than at the sub.  The majority of everything that you hear from a drum set rests in the midbass region.  Sure, there's plenty of bass there but it lies mostly in the harmonics and the deeper bass notes overlap the bass and midbass regions.  The subwoofers can and should help with this but the entire duty shouldn't rest solely on them.

[hdrox88 142]

I have a order from SDS due to arrive on Wednesday so I'll be addressing my doors/mids fairly soon.

[///M5 2,833]

Something seriously jacked with your install.  No way should that driver have ANY problems with transient bass notes.  I am ultra critical in that regard being an upright bass player and dig the one on my boat big time.

 

 

I was under the impression that a sealed enclosure would give more accurate response. Many people have said that the xcon does great sealed.

 

Your impression was wrong.  A better box will give a better response.

[hdrox88 142]

I have a order from SDS due to arrive on Wednesday so I'll be addressing my doors/mids fairly soon.

Not sure why this comment deserved a negative rep, but whatever.

Something seriously jacked with your install.  No way should that driver have ANY problems with transient bass notes.  I am ultra critical in that regard being an upright bass player and dig the one on my boat big time.

 

 

I was under the impression that a sealed enclosure would give more accurate response. Many people have said that the xcon does great sealed.

 

Your impression was wrong.  A better box will give a better response.

I think I misused the term transient trying to describe what was going on here. Sorry for that. It seemed like the response peaked at about 35-40hz and dropped off fast anything above about 50hz. Anything with any sort of speed or staccato to it just kind of ran together. You could tell there were separate notes or kick bass beats, but there wasn't much of any separation to them.

[lithium 358]

 

I have a order from SDS due to arrive on Wednesday so I'll be addressing my doors/mids fairly soon.

Not sure why this comment deserved a negative rep, but whatever.

Something seriously jacked with your install.  No way should that driver have ANY problems with transient bass notes.  I am ultra critical in that regard being an upright bass player and dig the one on my boat big time.

 

 

I was under the impression that a sealed enclosure would give more accurate response. Many people have said that the xcon does great sealed.

 

Your impression was wrong.  A better box will give a better response.

I think I misused the term transient trying to describe what was going on here. Sorry for that. It seemed like the response peaked at about 35-40hz and dropped off fast anything above about 50hz. Anything with any sort of speed or staccato to it just kind of ran together. You could tell there were separate notes or kick bass beats, but there wasn't much of any separation to them.

 

 

if the bass boost on? 

 

+1 for the sds. probably someone missed clicked 

[hdrox88 142]

That's what I thought at first, but the boost knob on the amp was zeroed and the hu was zeroed as well on the sub level and with a flat eq.

[lithium 358]

That's what I thought at first, but the boost knob on the amp was zeroed and the hu was zeroed as well on the sub level and with a flat eq.

 

 

here are some other ideas/questions. but i think the problem is enclosure related. 

 

you sure the xover setting is accurate, markings on the amp are usually off. 

 

what about the front stage? 

 

have you tried moving the box around the cargo area? 

 

have you tried changing the phase (if the amp has a setting?) or swapping the polarity? 

[hdrox88 142]

That's what I thought at first, but the boost knob on the amp was zeroed and the hu was zeroed as well on the sub level and with a flat eq.

here are some other ideas/questions. but i think the problem is enclosure related.

you sure the xover setting is accurate, markings on the amp are usually off.

what about the front stage?

have you tried moving the box around the cargo area?

have you tried changing the phase (if the amp has a setting?) or swapping the polarity?

I set the lpf on the amp all the way up and used the lpf on the hu to take care of crossover duty.

Front stage is ID XS65. Awaiting the sds order to maximize their potential. Not much mid bass right now.

I moved the box around and faced it different ways and ended up with it up against the back seat(no third row) firing back toward the hatch door. Any other way and the output would drop significantly.

Swapping polarity made very little difference, though I didn't play with the phase knob at all.

The box was made of 3/4" mdf, all glue, no screws. No air leaks or rattles coming from the box. I'm thinking sealed isn't all it's cracked up to be. Though according to ebp on this sub ported>sealed.

I also used your duct seal idea and am running my tweets up high in the door with grills off and the difference is pretty impressive. Gonna try a pillar a few inches above dash next week or so. I might need to start a build log or something the way this is going. Never done that before though.

Edited April 6, 2014 by hdrox88

[lithium 358]

what's the high pass for the mids? 

[hdrox88 142]

what's the high pass for the mids?

It's at 80hz, not sure of the slope right now.

[///M5 2,833]

I think I misused the term transient trying to describe what was going on here. Sorry for that. It seemed like the response peaked at about 35-40hz and dropped off fast anything above about 50hz. Anything with any sort of speed or staccato to it just kind of ran together. You could tell there were separate notes or kick bass beats, but there wasn't much of any separation to them.

I understood what you meant. That should not be something that happened with the Xcon. Sure doesn't in my enclosure.

[altoncustomtech 773]

I agree.  You say you don't have any air leaks in the enclosure but the problems you're describing are classic leaking box issues.  Push in on the cone of the sub and hold it in place for several seconds, it should have a bit of resistance to moving.  Now when you remove your hand the sub should move fairly slowly back out to it's rest position.  If it goes back quickly but doesn't follow your hand you're probably okay but if it doesn't go slowly at all and follows your hand straight back then you're enclosure isn't as well sealed as it should be.  This isn't super scientific nor is it completely definitive, but it can give you a place to start.  

 

Even if the enclosure isn't leaking there's still something very suspect going on here.  These subs are designed to be very accurate with quick response.  Aaron's analogy in my signature is a great explanation of it.

 

The enclosure is EVERYTHING to how a sub performs.  

[hdrox88 142]

I gave that test a shot. I pushed the cone in about 1 inch and held it for about 5 seconds. When I quickly released it took about a full second for it to recover.

This is really getting strange. If there is a weak link in my install somewhere, I definitely want to find it.

I might note that I bought it off a guy on craigslist. He had a 15 and an 18. They were brand new and he claimed he was a dealer. It was wrapped in plastic and in the shipping box. It also looked and smelled like new so I felt pretty comfortable with the deal.

Edited April 6, 2014 by hdrox88

[ssh 924]

Upgrade your midbass and lower the lpf on the xcon to 50-60hz, you'll thank me later.

Edit: before changing front stage, deaden the doors like you were planning then reevaluate. Once I deadened mine midbass was greatly improved.

Edited April 7, 2014 by ssh

[jcarter1885 995]

Not saying you wont get good midbass from those drivers even if you deaden, they aren't meant for that. These drivers have a higher sensitivity and are made to mate up with horns. The CTX mids is Image Dynamics heavy duty midbass driver, just my understanding from my days on the ID forum when it was still up and running.

Edited April 7, 2014 by jay-cee

[hdrox88 142]

Well, I don't plan on swapping out the X65s anytime soon. I've had four different sub set ups in this truck all on the same amp and the xcon was the only one to have the problem I am talking about, so I'm not sure mid bass is going to fix it.

[lithium 358]

Well, I don't plan on swapping out the X65s anytime soon. I've had four different sub set ups in this truck all on the same amp and the xcon was the only one to have the problem I am talking about, so I'm not sure mid bass is going to fix it.

 

the response you're missing from the sub, for whatever reason, could be made up for with strong midbass. 

 

i still dont understand why the xcon is not performing as it should. something isnt right and i can only guess you're overlooking some setting or other issue.