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Dexter Chaos

More midbass speaker selection

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So I have been in desire of adding more midbass to my set up. Currently I am using the Sundown CS6.5 set up from only. I feel that i am going to damage the 6.5 that came with this set if I do not pursue an alternative to help cover this midbass I am desireing. I will be sealing up a fiberglass enclosure on my doors.  I have been looking at a a couple set ups and was hoping for some advise. I am looking for a midbass driver that will run around 50hz and up not sure where my upper cut off will end  at this point. I have been looking at three speaker on is called a subwoofer and the others are called midbass drivers. well here is what I have looked at:

 

1.Sundown SD8 this will run sealed on my door. If I choose this route I was planning on using two of these CS6.5 as well with this.

 

 

2.Dayton audio RS180, with the RS100, and a tweeter as well

3.TB w6, 6.5 midbass driver,  with a 3 or 4 inch allrange as well and tweeter

 

Both of these options I am looking at going with a 3- 4" allrange driver to cover the Mid-High end and adding a tweeter as well.

 

I guess my main question is am I going to get the midbass out of the SD8  that I am looking for or would it be a waste of a speaker for this situation. I had odered these and will have to see If I can cancel if it is thought that I should change my direction of focus.

 

I am incredibly new to this active type set up I am looking at going with. So the exact interpitaitons of how these set ups will work has just been choosen through reading on this site.

 

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Should of posted this thread before purchasing the Sundown 8''s. Processing and power plans along with budget will get your more help.

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Another thing to keep in mind is that a 3 way setup is so many times harder to properly setup and tune than a 2 way.  If you're wanting killer midbass and great highs I would highly suggest trying a good 8" midbass like the Peerless SLS 8 coupled with a great 3" full range like the Fountek FR88.  As long as you put the full ranges pointing directly on axis you won't likely need a tweeter at all making it a much easier to work with and learn 2 way.  The processing you have available is much more important than the drivers you're planning on using though.  I have a Clarion CZ702 running a pair of Fountek FE85 full ranges, using the 6.5" mids from my Bravox CS60K components as the dedicated midbasses (for now, I have the Peerless SLS 8's and Fountek FR89EX's waiting to be installed) and the sound from that simple little setup is beyond stellar.  The stage is wider and more open than I could ever imagine, the detail and clarity are so good I've heard more subtle nuances and things than I've ever heard on any of my previous setups, and the midbass (even from these 6.5's) is felt just as much as it's heard.  

 

I think it's a great way to go for a simpler, budget friendly active setup that can really give that midbass punch.  As Justin stated, knowing your budget, power and processing plans will make a big difference on what we can do to help.

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I am planning on purchasing an pioneer deh80prs this summer. As far as budget it's not limitless but I would rather wait and save up if I feel that there is a better option out there. I currently am running a ppi 900.4 on my cs set. Only running two channels of it currently. I will look into those speakers you mentioned and see.

Alon, Compared to the tang bang or Dayton that I have been looking at, what types of differences should I expect between them?

Thanks All for the advise

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Better hurry up and grab one of those Pioneer's since they have been discontinued for whatever reason or check out the Kenwood X-997.

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Better hurry up and grab one of those Pioneer's since they have been discontinued for whatever reason or check out the Kenwood X-997.

I have looked at the kenwood to. I haven't found much info other than shop videos on it.

Has anyone used one that could give feed back on it

Edited by Dexter Chaos

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Read up on it on Kenwood's website or Crutchfield, they all give detailed specs and features about the unit.

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After reading through the manual for the 997 it's not got powerful enough crossovers for truly going active.  The EQ, DTA, and basic crossover controls it has aren't bad at all but there's not enough capability in the crossovers.

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Look at the clarion cz702?

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the dayton is not a midbass driver at all. You should take the passives you're using currently and go active with just them until you learn the basics of an active set up. Then maybe move on to a midbass + fullrange set up. Don't pull a ncc and try a 3 way right out of the gate. 

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Look at the clarion cz702?

 

I think it's a great choice for a first active system and the price can't be beat either.  Last time I checked one could be picked up at SonicElectronix for $150 with free shipping and installation gear.

 

 

the dayton is not a midbass driver at all. You should take the passives you're using currently and go active with just them until you learn the basics of an active set up. Then maybe move on to a midbass + fullrange set up. Don't pull a ncc and try a 3 way right out of the gate. 

 

Yep, sound advice.

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The 80prs will NOT do a 3 way active nor will it do a 2way with an 8" sub and 3" mid.  Going to need different processing if you want to go that route.

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The 80prs will NOT do a 3 way active nor will it do a 2way with an 8" sub and 3" mid.  Going to need different processing if you want to go that route.

 

So what do you suggest for speaker set up if not to go with a 8" and 3" drivers?

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The 80prs will NOT do a 3 way active nor will it do a 2way with an 8" sub and 3" mid.  Going to need different processing if you want to go that route.

 

So what do you suggest for speaker set up if not to go with a 8" and 3" drivers?

 

 

What Sean was saying was that if you wanted to try the dedicated midbass and full range setup that the 80PRS wouldn't do what you need it to for processing.  I was a little surprised to hear that myself at first but when I got to thinking about it the crossovers are limited to 1.25khz for the high pass of the highs (tweeter) and lowpass of the mid.  The Clarion isn't quite as limited but the lowest it can cross for the mid same purpose is 630hz.  I'm using the LP crossover on the amp powering the midbasses to get it down to the <300hz range they need to be at to cross with the full ranges properly.  So technically speaking I suppose he's right the HU's themselves aren't ideal for the dedicated midbass/full range setup but the Clarion can do it as long as the amp for the midbasses has a LP crossover.  The 80PRS is a great HU for going active with a mid and a tweeter though but that would be it's limit.

 

Here's the frequencies both of the HU's can be set to in their crossovers.

 

 

The Pioneer 80PRS

 

Pioneer80PRScrossoverfrequencies.jpg

 

 

 

 

The Clarion CZ702

 

ClarionCZ702crossoverfrequencies.jpg

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The sole goal of a full range is to have it play as much of the frequency range as possible.  This allows a driver like the SLS referenced above which can almost play to 300Hz nice, anything above and you don't want it.

 

What can be recommended depends on budget, goals, capability and the like.  An ideal processor is a computer, but that'll take a lot of know how to yield a good sounding setup out of it.

 

Once you are in the realm of a 3 way you need a stand alone proc of some sort that isn't limited.  New ones on the market are limited and expensive so I'd lean on used for that.

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i am using the alpine 137 currentl,  these are its crossover specs

 

  • High Pass Filter: OFF/60/80/120/160 Hz (Selectable)
  • Low Pass Filter: OFF/60/80/120/160 Hz (Selectable)
  • Bass Level Control Range: -14 to +14 dB
  • Bass Center Frequency: 60/80/100/120 Hz (Selectable)
  • Bass Band Width Adjustment (Q): 4 Choices (0.5 =narrow, 1.0 = medium, 1.5 =medium, 2.0 =wide)
  • Mid Level Control Range: -14 to +14 dB
  • Mid Center Frequency: 500Hz/1kHz/1.5kHz/2.5kHz (Selectable)
  • Mid Band Width Adjustment (Q): 4 Choices (0.75 =narrow, 1.0 = medium, 1.25 =medium, 1.5 =wide)
  • Treble Level Control Range: -14 to +14 dB
  • Treble Center Frequency: 7.5kHz/10kHz/12.5kHz/15kHz (Selectable)
  • Treble Band Width Adjustment (Q): 2 Choices (0.75 =narrow, 1.25 =wide)

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You should buy something passive.  

 

What you have won't do really anything and based on you posting it there is no way that a 3 way active is a good idea.

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You should buy something passive.  

 

What you have won't do really anything and based on you posting it there is no way that a 3 way active is a good idea.

 

you feel this way because of my current head unit? explain why?

 

I realize my current head unit will not work.

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Partially because your headunit and mostly because you never went active before. 2 way is better for learning then throwing a 3 way setup in and not knowing what to do.

You dont ride a mountain bike when your trying to learn how to ride a bike as a kid.

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You should buy something passive.  

 

What you have won't do really anything and based on you posting it there is no way that a 3 way active is a good idea.

 

you feel this way because of my current head unit? explain why?

 

I realize my current head unit will not work.

 

By posting specs on a head unit that has absolutely no active capabilities whatsoever and asking about it clarifies the fact that you aren't ready for a 3 way.  In fact you should expect that a 2 way will sound WORSE than a passive for at least 6 months of tinkering.  A 3 way will be a complete and utter mess.  It is far from trivial.

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Just so that its clear to "M5" I understand that my head unit will not suffice. I  new this from before I even starting this thread. My thinking was I wanted to share what I currently had for comparisson reasons only, silly me. This is my thread I created and wanted to post MY units specs as well. I hope that your intellect and arrogance about audible noise is no reflection of who you are in real life just a mirage of how it comes across on the cpu screen. I inparticular came to this web site for everyones knowledge but you sir make it frustrating to learn sometimes.

 

My 2 cents.

end rant

 

 

 

I wanted to share that I have chosen to install the peerless 8" SLS and Dayton Audio DC28F tweeter. After some discussion with a fellow IAK member on sunday he said the peerless was a proven winner and also with ALTONS advise I felt this would be a good starting point. Also after some googling and reading of reviews on the tweeter its not a superior model but has great reviews for its price point, its has rebuildable parts, & should be a good starter tweeter. This is where I will start. My current plan is to build and install my door pods then I will order the 80prs to truly move forward with this build. I will post results as I go. Thanks to all for the advise and any further advise in my crusade for a better sounding vehicle.

Edited by Dexter Chaos

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Using the SLS 8 with a tweeter is going to prove to be problematic. It can't play high enough to cross with a tweeter. The response falls to shit after 300hz and no tweeter will begin to touch that low, you wouldn't want it to. That's why the SLS 8 gets paired with a full range like the Founteks or used as a woofer in a 3 way. The SLS is a great choice but only if it's used correctly. The same goes for any speaker. If you really want to use the SLS for great midbass response you'll have to pair it with something other than a lone tweeter.

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the sls 8 cant play over 300hz, no way will it match with a tweeter.  you also can't run the sls with a full range driver with that headunit. nor can it process a 3way + sub set up. 

 

Take a step back and listen to people who actually know what they're talking about instead of getting your panties in a bunch. 

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i have these Peerless TC6WD02-04 Silver Series 2" Midrange  I could instal instead of that tweeter with the SLS.

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i have these Peerless TC6WD02-04 Silver Series 2" Midrange  I could instal instead of that tweeter with the SLS.

again, the pioneer cant high pass the fullrange low enough to match up with the midbass. 

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