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hdrox88

More power for mids?

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I currently have a zapco st-4x running active with ID xs28 tweeters and xs65 mids. I am contemplating getting a zapco st-2x to run the tweeters so I can bridge the 4ch with the mids. Would it be $100 well spent for the 2ch amp or would I be spinning my wheels?

Trying to improve output and impact. It sounds awesome right now, just not quite loud enough.

Edited by hdrox88

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Can't comment without knowing more about how the drivers are installed. $100 buys a lot of stuff to improve the install.

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The mids are in stock location in the doors with 3/4" mdf baffle. CCF between mid and baffle, EBR between baffle and door. Doors are done up with SDS products as Don recommends. Tweeters are currently on top of the dash at the pillar. Driver side tweet on axis to passenger and passenger side tweet on axis to driver. In place with duct seal til I find a final location and method of install. I am sure these won't be the last drivers I have, but I'd like to see how far I can take them as they are fairly impressive on 60wrms. I have linked my build log as well.

http://www.soundsolutionsaudio.com/forum/topic/62246-2001-tahoe-daily-driver/

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I would do it. Headroom is a good thing. curious how low you're crossing over your mids.

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I have the mids high pass at 80hz and low pass at 3.15khz. I am slightly concerned about the idea of headroom as I listen to newer rock and alt music so there isn't much in the way of dynamics. I listen to lots of different stuff, but rock is one of my staples.

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do a test, bridge the 4 channel to the mids and run the tweeter off the hu. 

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do a test, bridge the 4 channel to the mids and run the tweeter off the hu.

I had some time today and gave it a shot. It seemed like the tweeters got a little messy. The mids seemed more controlled, but not a whole lot louder. Of course, I had to cut back on the mids a bit to match the tweeters. I'll have to play with it some more, but the tweeters on hu power aren't very promising.

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The goal wasn't to listen to the tweets on h/u power, but the mids. If you heard no gain it answers your own question wink.png

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I figured as much, it was just distracting with the tweeters sounding the way they were. I was able to tame it a little bit. For three times the power, the mids did get louder, but not as much as I would have hoped. What I did notice was that the mid bass frequencies woke up a bit and the sound overall was more controlled, detailed if you will.

I'd say I'm on the fence about buying the 2ch amp as of now. I like the sound with the power increase, but it still isn't loud enough for my random crank the volume moments. I am thinking that in order for me to be happy from a output standpoint I may need to end up with some ES mini horns and IB capable 8" pa mid in the door. I'd definitely get input on driver selection here before I made that leap though.

On a side note, I'm not sure what "hot" is for speakers but with outside temps of 100+ here I measured up to 150 degrees at the phase plug after wailing on it for about an hour. Raytek IR thermometer.

Edited by hdrox88

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Hot is when glue melts. wink.png

Just changing power isn't always enough. Depends greatly on crossover and eq settings. Did the drivers breakup before running out of power? Where are you looking for more output?

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I did notice breakup when pushing it, at least I think that would be the term for it. I first noticed the vocals start to get a little distorted so I stopped there of course. It was still getting louder when the sound went to crap. I like the way they sound as they are, so I guess it would be overall output that I'm looking for. A little extra mid bass is welcomed, but not necessary.

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Possibly try to level things out with an eq to tame peaky frequencies. A good rule of thumb is cut the peaks, instead of trying to boost the lulls. 

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I was playing with eq a bit and was able to gain a little more output while still staying tonally pleasing to my ears. I almost always use cuts in the eq, only time I'll boost is the occasional +1 on 20khz to gain a little more sparkle. At this point I think the break up or odd harmonic I seem to be hearing is the surround contacting the door trim on higher excursion and the door trim possibly resonating slightly. I was able to tame it pretty well by bringing the hpf up to 100hz with a 12db slope but the sacrifice in mid bass wasn't so hot. 80hz with a 24db slope seems to sound pretty good at moderate to high listening levels.

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So, I have been playing with the eq and have gained some output while still sounding pretty good. I just think I may be asking to much of these drivers. I think at this point different drivers and more power are needed to get louder to the level I am looking for.

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What do you feel your current drivers are lacking? Output across the board or just down low?

Boosting with the eq is expectable. Just a suggestion to smooth out the peaks before boosting.

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I'm looking for a step up in output overall. They sound pretty good to me right now.

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Double post fail.

Edited by hdrox88

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Now that you smoothed out the sound, do you feel the drivers can handle more power? Or do you feel like they are straining? 

 

The next option if that doesn't cut it would be find drivers with more thermal and mechanical limits. That or double up the drivers.

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I haven't tried resetting the gain on the amp yet, but i can get a few more clicks on the volume knob before they are sounding stressed. Adjusting gain at this point seems like spinning wheels at best, or am I wrong?

 

I actually have a set of q logic kick pods, though they had a weird resonation at higher volumes when I first tried them. Is that a viable option if I were to layer some cld on them? I think that would be the only way I would consider doubling up drivers as I would like to keep the doors as stock looking as possible and not chop them up for dual driver set up. I might be able to squeeze an 8" driver in there if needed though.

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Gains are for matching the levels of everything. If you feel the mids are level with everything else,  then your good there. Otherwise same as with the eq, either lower the gains on the other drivers in the car or boost the mids gain to match.

 

I personally would not do multiple drivers if you can't mount them together. Sure it may be louder, but will most likely sound poor. 

 

An 8" will have more output down low as it has more cone area, but may not be any louder up high. 

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I have been doing level matching within the HU, though the mids over shoot the tweets as they are on HU power right now so I could bridge the 4ch for the mids. What you are saying is making sense, but surely I can't be hitting a road block with output levels this early in the game.

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If your current drivers are straining mechanically then you may need a beefier driver.

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I'm hitting thermal limits as well. I just got to work and with that extra few clicks on the volume knob it sounded clean, but half way through a song it got stinky.

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You expressed concern about possible physical contact with the door panel. I would verify this is not an issue first. Otherwise I think you answered your own question.

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JUst looking at it while playing a variety of music I can't visually see contact, but I'm pretty sure eyes can't keep up with the movement speed of the surround. I'll have to pull the panel and see if the sound changes I guess, though I'm doubtful that will be very revealing.

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