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holley2346

Crown Amplifier At Home

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I recently added more speakers to my home theater setup. To power the speakers I ordered a crown XLS1000 amplifier. I was dissapointed after hooking everything up that I was not getting the output I was expecting. At this point I noticed the signal indicators on the amp were barely lighting up even though they were getting all the signal that my reciever could put out. So some research revealed that most home audio recievers don't put out a high enough voltage for pro audio amplifiers. To resolve the problem I ordered an ART-II Pre Amplifier which in my mind would boost the signal to a higher voltage, therefore allowing me to set the gains properly on my amp and get the proper output. However I just got done hooking everything up and all I get out of it is clipped signal. Even at its lowest setting.

 

So someone please assist me in making this work properly. Another issue I'd like to resolve is how to control volume with a remote using this amp. As it currently is set up it gets signal all the time from my onkyo reciever's "zone 2". Even when you turn the reciever off "zone 2" is still sending out signal to the crown amplifier. The only way to control volume output is with the gain knobs, which I know is not the proper way to control volume, nor do I want to have to manually change output levels by walking across the room.

 

Some of you that have used crown amps at home please pitch in.

 

The reciever I am using is an onkyo ht r758

 

Thanks

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Before you do anything else, where did you originally have the gains set on the Crown when you had low output?

 

And how did you hook up the preamp outputs of your reciver to the inputs of the Crown?

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When I installed and first powered on the amp after hooking it up the gains were all the way down. Once powered on I slowly turned the gain knobs to full output. That's when I discovered how disappointing the output was. This amp is rated at a much higher output than my home audio reciever and these speakers rock out hooked to my receiver. However there is too much heat build up in the receiver for comfort.

Edited by holley2346

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It takes 1.4V balanced (so probably about .7V unbalanced) to clip that Crown amp.  Your reciever can put that out. 

 

Are you powering other speakers off the reciever in addition to the ones on the Crown or are you just using the reciever as a pre-amp for the Crown?

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It takes 1.4V balanced (so probably about .7V unbalanced) to clip that Crown amp.  Your reciever can put that out. 

 

Are you powering other speakers off the reciever in addition to the ones on the Crown or are you just using the reciever as a pre-amp for the Crown?

 

I have 2 purposes for this setup.

 

1. Low output sound for watching shows / news

2. Extremely high output for parties / drinking festivities purely playing music

 

I have the onkyo speakers only hooked to the onkyo receiver now for low output.

 

I have "zone2" I guess you could call it a "pre out" sending signal to the input of the xls1000 crown amp

 

The signal output from the cable box is coming in on "tv/cd"

reciever.jpg

 

With everything connected it doesnt matter if the volume on the onkyo is at maximum or minimum it doesn't affect the signal to the amp.

With everything set to wide open the signal indicators on the amp do not even go beyond the lowest led which is below -20 db as shown in the below image.

 

front.jpg

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That's strange I can use my cellphone headphone jack to rca cable and feed that into any one of my pro audio amps for my garage setup, I used to run that into an older Sony receiver and use the sub Out to my qsc powering my solo x and one of the audio outs to my small crown powering my 2 tower speakers no problem

Edited by tprj82

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That's strange I can use my cellphone headphone jack to rca cable and feed that into any one of my pro audio amps for my garage setup, I used to run that into an older Sony receiver and use the sub Out to my qsc powering my solo x and one of the audio outs to my small crown powering my 2 tower speakers no problem

Just tried exactly what you described. Same results.

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What ohm load are you wired to? My dual 2 x is series to 4 I've seen some of those crowns rated @ 2 and some 8

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OK listen, if you can't even vary the output of the Zone 2 output you have something completely wrong.  

 

Your problems have nothing at all to do with the Crown.  The reason the signal lights don't do anything is because you aren't feeding the Crown  hardly any input signal.

 

You need to figure out how to vary the output of the Zone 2.  The Zone 2 is normally a completely separate output adjustment, and is done so independently of the main output section.

 

Figure out how to use your receiver properly (or isolate a defective Zone 2 output) and you will be golden.

 

Also make sure the Crown is set to 2 Channel direct (I think that is what the default is called), I just installed 10 of these a few months ago, make sure you didn't jack up any of the amp settings if you were goofing around with them.

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Maybe it was "2 Channel Bypass"  or "Stereo Bypass" I can't remember, just make sure you didn't change it...

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OK listen, if you can't even vary the output of the Zone 2 output you have something completely wrong.  

 

Your problems have nothing at all to do with the Crown.  The reason the signal lights don't do anything is because you aren't feeding the Crown  hardly any input signal.

 

You need to figure out how to vary the output of the Zone 2.  The Zone 2 is normally a completely separate output adjustment, and is done so independently of the main output section.

 

Figure out how to use your receiver properly (or isolate a defective Zone 2 output) and you will be golden.

 

Also make sure the Crown is set to 2 Channel direct (I think that is what the default is called), I just installed 10 of these a few months ago, make sure you didn't jack up any of the amp settings if you were goofing around with them.

 

From Onkyo -

If you are using POWERED ZONE 2, you can control the volume of the Z2 speakers using the Onkyo receiver. Powered Zone 22 only connects to and powers a pair of speakers. If you are planning to use more than a pair of speakers for Zone 2; you will then need to use the Zone 2 Line Out terminals. NOTE: using the Zone 2 Line Out terminals WILL require volume control from the external amplifier.

Using the Remote 2 app; you will need to select the Zone 2 option from the remote app first. Then when ZONE 2 is activated; select the volume.bar to try controlling the volume for your Powered Zone 2 speakers. If you still experiencing any issues; please contact our Product Support department at 217852600, option #3from for Product Support.

 
 
I am using zone 2 pre outs which are not moderated by the volume on the reciever.
 
In addition to this I completely eliminated the onkyo by connecting my cable box outputs directly to the onkyo. This yields the same results as with the onkyo and the same results as using my phone with a 3mm to rca converter cord directly to the amp.
 
I have found the product that I think will solve my problem from ART. It can be found here.
 
 
I really appreciate your help with this.
 
Thanks.

 

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The cleanbox is passive, does not give you any gain and is really for converting balanced to unbalanced and vice versa.  I have used a dozen of them.

 

The Crown already has unbalanced inputs making the cleanbox un-needed.  It is a feature they added so you could drive the amp with consumer gear (like a pre-amp or IPOD).  If you can't get volume you want even with the IPOD, something is set wrong with the amp.  Any consumer device will drive the .7 VRMS that amp needs to be driven to full power.

 

Even the un-adjustable Zone 2 output will be almost a volt under certain conditions.

 

You still have a setting wrong, you need to figure out what you are doing wrong, please don't buy any more equipment you don't need.

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I connected my note 3 directly to the amp using a 3.5mm to rca chord. The output is MUCH louder and more led's light up. So this is obviously a signal voltage issue with the onkyo receiver. From what I am reading if you use rca unbalanced inputs and balanced xlr outputs to the amp on the cleanbox you will receive a boost of up to 4db. Which will hopefully help with additional output.

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I think you are missing the point that the XLS1000 already has unbalanced inputs, the cleanbox isn't going to make a huge difference.

 

The cleanbox helps a little when an amplifier only has balanced inputs as it helps with impedance matching.  It may work better, but even if you get your 4db, that is hardly audible at all.  

 

Bottom line, if you can't already run the amp into clipping with what you got (which you should be able to no problem with anything that has a variable output) the cleanbox isn't going to help much.

 

 

 

Does that Onkyo have a main pre-out?  Other than the Zone 2?

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I think you are missing the point that the XLS1000 already has unbalanced inputs, the cleanbox isn't going to make a huge difference.

 

The cleanbox helps a little when an amplifier only has balanced inputs as it helps with impedance matching.  It may work better, but even if you get your 4db, that is hardly audible at all.  

 

Bottom line, if you can't already run the amp into clipping with what you got (which you should be able to no problem with anything that has a variable output) the cleanbox isn't going to help much.

 

 

 

Does that Onkyo have a main pre-out?  Other than the Zone 2?

 

 

 

No unfortunately my onkyo doesn't have a pre out. The only way to play what it is playing is to use zone 2. However I could get a video cable for my mac and still play movies through the tv and crown amplified speakers. If the cleanbox doesn't help much I will have to find a reciever with a much higher output voltage. I am open to suggestions on what equipment to put in this room. It is an enclosed 2 car garage that has been turned into a movie room. I currently have a 70" led tv in it with 2 12" dayton subs with built in plate amps. Mids and highs consist of the onkyo speakers that came with the receiver along with 2 BIC venturi dv48 tower speakers and 2 pure acoustics super nova 5f's.

Edited by holley2346

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I'm being lazy and not looking back lol what mode is onkyo in stereo or surround?

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He is using this for music, the sub out won't really help much.

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Test to see if he is getting anything out of the radio voltage wise

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There is another way to use your current equipment, and do it cheap.

 

This may sound bad, don't judge until you try it, but you could use a very cheap LOC (Line Output Converter) from the powered Zone 2 output and run that into the balanced input of the Crown.  

 

To be honest, depending on the Zone-2 output rating, you could run the Zone 2 speaker output directly into the balanced input of the Crown.  

 

This would give you volume control from the Onkyo.

 

Tell me what the rated power output (including impedance specified) and I can tell you if you could run it directly.  That crown will take well over 10VRMS on the input, and a low powered speaker output would only take mild attenuation.

 

Worst comes to worst, you don't like the way it sounds and you are only out $10 for a LOC...

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Test to see if he is getting anything out of the radio voltage wise

 

He is.  It is a fixed low level output, he explained it earlier.  It isn't enough to get what he wants.

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There is another way to use your current equipment, and do it cheap.

This may sound bad, don't judge until you try it, but you could use a very cheap LOC (Line Output Converter) from the powered Zone 2 output and run that into the balanced input of the Crown.

To be honest, depending on the Zone-2 output rating, you could run the Zone 2 speaker output directly into the balanced input of the Crown.

This would give you volume control from the Onkyo.

Tell me what the rated power output (including impedance specified) and I can tell you if you could run it directly. That crown will take well over 10VRMS on the input, and a low powered speaker output would only take mild attenuation.

Worst comes to worst, you don't like the way it sounds and you are only out $10 for a LOC...

I thought of doing this exact thing. I'll have to see if I have one laying around from my car audio days

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